[hawk891]

Bob, is this some kind of ploy to silence a gay man?

I am still in the closet. My parents are very christian. It would kill them to find out. But they are very old, so i'm waiting until they pass before I can come out. Anonymity is as important to me as it was to the early american slaves on the underground railroad. They used aliases to keep themselves safe. I have to use an alias, or it could literally destroy my life and the love from my mother. She is too old, and backwards, to change her ways and accept me the way I am, but I still love her.

You have now indicated to me, that some people here have special rights over others. Iv'e seen warren curse and attack people here already, and i've only been on the site a few hours. So Warren has special rights, which you deny this gay man?? Is that it?

What are you going to do if I counter attack in self defense? Violate my freedom of speech rights because i'm anonymous? Where in the constitution does it say the 1st amendment is null and void for anonymous citizens? Please point it out, i'm all ears.

Do you believe in equal rights Bob? You have just made it clear Warren has more rights than I do. Do you wish to clarify, or can we agree you don't believe in equal rights?

[hawk891]

So far your speech has been unfettered. But we do have a long standing rule that attacks cannot be made anonymously.

So far? So far??!?!? So is this a threat that you will censor me in the future if I attack someone, while others are free to attack me? So Warren can attack me, but I can't counter attack?

Your "rule" is not constitutional. Oppressed people have a very long long history of use anonymity in their fight for equal rights. Yet, you are already indicating that I do not have equal rights here. WTF! Is that true? Care to clarify?

[hawk891]

The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that the right to anonymous free speech is protected by the First Amendment. A frequently cited 1995 Supreme Court ruling in McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission reads:

Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society.

https://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity

Gay men in America have been unpopular and have suffered an intolerant society for a long time. So read that quote again Bob. Maybe a lot.

Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority

Your anti-freedom of speech position is appalling. Your freedom of speech zones, the antithesis of freedom of speech, is equally appalling. Did I just walk into Soviet Russia or something?

[hawk891]

In case Bob is completely unaware of the constitution and the history of this great country, our founding fathers used anonymity too. Anonymity is american at it's core and is constitutionally protected by the 1st amendment. In fact, James Madison, wrote the 1st amendment, and used pseudonyms. I guess James fu**ing Madison would not be allowed to attack the Red Coats on this forum under a pseudonym!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... al_debates

James Madison and the First Amendment. In 1789, James Madison — nicknamed "the father of the Constitution" — proposed 12 amendments that ultimately became the 10 amendments that make up the U.S. Bill of Rights. Madison was unquestionably the person who wrote the First Amendment in this respect.

Did you also know that Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay wrote the Federalist Papers under pseudonyms Bob?

[hawk891]

It's early. Checking in. Hello? Is this forum dead? When are these grievous freedom of speech violations going to be removed?

One big difference between the US Hawks and other organizations is that the US Hawks really does honor the free speech of its members.

I actually see exactly the opposite here. This site is very anti-freedom of speech. It's even encoded in the registration and site rules. Bob has shown he doesn't believe in freedom of speech at all, nor equal rights of his site members.

Is this site run in communist china by chance?

[magentabluesky]

The reason it is so slow here is because Bob has the throttle lock on.

You have to wait after one post.

"You cannot make another post so soon after your last."

Just another form of censorship.

[Bob Kuczewski]

The reason it is so slow here is because Bob has the throttle lock on.

You have to wait after one post.

"You cannot make another post so soon after your last."

Just another form of censorship.

The forum software has a setting known as the "flood interval" defined as:

      "Flood interval: Number of seconds a user must wait between posting new messages."

It's currently set at 15 seconds.

Michael, your claims of me damaging your "reputation" are undermined by your consistent efforts to destroy it yourself.

[hawk891]

The reason it is so slow here is because Bob has the throttle lock on.

You have to wait after one post.

"You cannot make another post so soon after your last."

Just another form of censorship.

This site seems to be chock full of freedom of speech violations, while at the same time claiming the opposite.

If this is just a private forum, like all the rest, then that is perfectly fine, and I have no issue with that. But a site that literally sells itself as having freedom of speech, has to be analogous to a public square. Don't lie about it.

Which is it Bob? Is this your private property, or do we actually have freedom of speech rights, just like our government has recognized of it's citizens? Both are perfectly valid, but you have to walk the talk.

[hawk891]

The reason it is so slow here is because Bob has the throttle lock on.

You have to wait after one post.

"You cannot make another post so soon after your last."

Just another form of censorship.

The forum software has a setting known as the "flood interval" defined as:

      "Flood interval: Number of seconds a user must wait between posting new messages."

It's currently set at 15 seconds.

Michael, your claims of me damaging your "reputation" are undermined by your consistent efforts to destroy it yourself.

So you openly admit to controlling and throttling freedom of speech here in the Chinese Hawks Hang Gliding Association Herr Bob.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Which is it Bob? Is this your private property, or do we actually have freedom of speech rights, just like our government has recognized of it's citizens? Both are perfectly valid, but you have to walk the talk.

I believe it's well established that web sites like ours (and others) can make their own rules within the limits of the law.

Here's one of our rules: You cannot attack people on this forum without making your real name known.

People who think that's a good rule should stay here and enjoy the U.S. Hawks forum. People who think that's a bad rule should leave.

Let me give you an example. There's another hang gliding web site that you might enjoy named hanggliding.org. Their operator (Jack Axaopolous) has made a rule that if you type "USHGRS" (an acronym for U.S. Hang Gliding Rating System) it will be changed to something else. So people who would like to see their own posts changed should go there and enjoy seeing their posts be changed. Simple, right?

Let me give you another example from that same web site. Their moderator (yes, the same Jack Axaopolous) banned a very good man named Joe Faust who you've met earlier in this topic. All the people who like that Joe Faust is banned should go to hanggliding.org and rejoice that they can post where Joe cannot. People who would like to converse with Joe and don't want to see him be banned should come and enjoy conversing with him on the U.S. Hawks. See how that works?

Let me give you one last example. Some people like to create fake accounts and "sock puppets" to attack and smear others without being responsible for their actions. There are sites (such as hanggliding.org) where that's been known to happen. Even their moderator (Jack Axaopolous - alias "sg") avoids making his real name known. If you like that environment, then you should go to hanggliding.org. We work hard to at least try to minimize that here on the U.S. Hawks. That's why we have a rule that forbids anonymous attacks.

Let's recap ...

• If you want a forum where people can anonymously attack each other, go to hanggliding.org.
• If you want a forum where anonymous attacks are not allowed, then please enjoy the U.S. Hawks.
  
  
• If you want a forum where you can't post the word "USHGRS", then go to hanggliding.org.
• If you would like to support and discuss USHGRS, then you can do so on the U.S. Hawks.
  
  
• If you want to belong to a forum where Joe Faust is banned, then go support hanggliding.org. You'll be among like minded people.
• If you want to belong to a forum that values Joe Faust, then you'll find him at the U.S. Hawks.

BUT ... if you continue to attack our members without giving verifiable proof of your identity ... you will be banned.