Frank Politics

[Bob Kuczewski]

But again, who knows how many other HG pilots, will leave (or have left) the US Hawks because of the divisive and utterly unnecessary communications that certain member(s) seem to need to put out there.

There's a simple rule on public forums: Don't read what you don't want to read.

I understand that free speech is a double-edged sword that cuts in both directions. The sport of hang gliding has suffered greatly at the hands of those who claimed to silence people "for the good of the community". Remember the HGAA? Jack and his cronies silenced the most valuable volunteers under the guise of "building the organization". It went defunct shortly afterward.

We do have categories for posts and topics. If you feel something is out of place, please bring it to the Board. But in general, I tend to favor wide latitude in what people can say, and I will tend to vote along those lines. But I am just one of five and I'm not always on the winning side.

By the same token, Warren, I do think that some of your non hang gliding posts are pushing the bounds of what is appropriate in hang gliding sections of the forum. Please try to be mindful of that as you post.

[Free]

What you don't seem to get, or just refuse to get, is that The US Hawks Hang Gliding Association is about hang gliding. Hang gliding subjects include hang gliding politics for sure. But MOST hang glider pilots fly (or read HG forum contents) because they want to get away from the business and/or political talk that they have to deal with EVERY DAY when they are walking around on the ground.

You don't strike me as someone who is immersed in business and/or political talk EVERY DAY.

That's why I suggested a "Hang Gliding Politics" section.

I applaud you for that!

Then there is your "special case". You want to stand on your soap box and have everybody hear/read what you have to say about general/national (non hang gliding) politics.

I don't think this is a fair assessment at all. My soap box is educational and is for everyone's benefit if they care to understand more than what they are immersed in every day when they are walking around on the ground. My comments are usually labeled as such that they should be easily skipped and ignored by those with too much going on in their heads to possibly absorb one little bit more. '

Well, the US Hawks has lost who knows how many members because of the amount of hang gliding politics on the "Front Page".

Who really knows? Any examples?

A friend of mine who spearheaded the hang gliding display at the Glen Curtiss Museum told me, after signing up here as a member last month, that there seemed to a lot of "crazy conspiracy stories" on the Hawks. I explained why, as best I could, but he has NEVER made an effort to post anything to the US Hawks. That's one example of one person who thinks the US Hawks is some kind of "nut case" web site. He thinks so because of the number of "political" topics posted here - be they hang gliding related, or general/national related.

Doesn't sound like politics is the culprit here in your example. How do you know he isn't posting because you claim to be a friend?
How could you explain "crazy conspiracy stories" when you admit to not knowing anything about me? What did you tell him?

As long as members here can tolerate posts that are primarily meant to announce someone's personal (non-hang gliding) politics, They will remain members.

You seem to be projecting power here that you don't really have.

But again, who knows how many other HG pilots, will leave (or have left) the US Hawks because of the divisive and utterly unnecessary communications that certain member(s) seem to need to put out there.

Yeah, who really knows what is necessary and unnecessary? I don't think you are such a good judge of that.
Again, thanks for your part in creating this new area of discussion.
This forum is a powerful addition to the U.S. Hawks!

[Bob Kuczewski]

Frank has indicated in the past his allegiance to the leftist delusion/derangement.

I don't think that's accurate Warren. Can you offer a quote to back that up? If not, would you please rephrase that to be more accurate?

[Bob Kuczewski]

As of a few minutes ago this topic was moved to the "Free Speech Zone" by a vote of the U.S. Hawks Board. The following note was placed into the first post to mark it's previous location:

Moderator's Note: This topic was moved here
      from the "Hang Gliding Politics" forum
      by a vote of the U.S. Hawks Board.

[Free]

Frank has indicated in the past his allegiance to the leftist delusion/derangement.

I don't think that's accurate Warren. Can you offer a quote to back that up? If not, would you please rephrase that to be more accurate?

Yes! It was an incomplete sentence. Add the word CULT at the end of the sentence, as in Frank has indicated in the past, his allegiance to the leftist delusion/derangement CULT.
I did not properly proof read what got posted. I remember editing CULT into the post but must not have hit send correctly.

I believe it to be true based on unsolicited political comments Frank made, slightly hypocritical I might add, that told me Frank had a touch of Trump derangement syndrome. This was after the 3 year hoax of the Russian collusion theory had collapsed to anyone paying attention. Frank never missed a beat in the 'get Trump fervor' and stated that it was Trump's taxes that was the problem.

Frank hasn't denied he has TDS. According to some polls, which I don't believe, upwards of 50% of the public share the same syndrome.
My comment was not an attack. It was an observation.
I hope that helps clear things up.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Warren,

I voted for Reagan twice, and Trump once (so far), so you really can't say I'm a leftist.

But I think you're being too hard on Frank for his politics. Frank sincerely believes the things he believes. I may not agree with all of them, but I don't think Frank wants bad things to happen to anyone. He just believes in different cause/consequence relationships than we do. That was clear in the banning of Joe Faust. I absolutely believe Frank wanted Joe to not be banned. And I absolutely believe that Frank thought diplomacy would be the better path than speaking out in protest. I absolutely believe the same to be true of Michael and Red (Tom) as well.

So I don't think It's really appropriate to be too harsh on people who want good things but just have a different approach to getting there than we do. Approaches can be changed by trial and error. That's the process of learning. We can all be wrong.

I think Frank now sees a different version of Jack Ax than he did a year or so ago. I know it took me nearly 2 years to see Jack for who he really was. How long did it take you?

As for Michael and Red, I think they suffer from their own self-induced blind spots. There are certain things they just don't want to see. Few things make a person more angry than being forced to see something inside themselves that they don't want to see.

[Bill Cummings]

I didn’t vote in the last general election. Which did everyone pick as the shiniest turd?
We should defend the constitution against all enemies Republican and Democrat and give
credit to the terrorists for allowing us to see the bad apples that came out with the
patriot act. Go read the NDAA if you think the constitution has been defended. Also
the SCOTUS making a business a person or red flag laws.

[Bob Kuczewski]

We should defend the constitution against all enemies Republican and Democrat ...

I love that line Bill!!!!

[Free]

Warren,

I voted for Reagan twice, and Trump once (so far), so you really can't say I'm a leftist.

I never voted for Reagan but did vote for Trump because he was not Hillary. What do we make of this?

But I think you're being too hard on Frank for his politics. Frank sincerely believes the things he believes.

I'm not being too hard on Frank at all. This is a false narrative that needs to be corrected.
I sincerely believe Frank is confused about that and I apologize for adding to the confusion by poor proof reading of what I wrote.
That said, even with the poor proof reading, the original comment did not contain an attack.
I only said that Frank had indicated an allegiance to the leftist derangement/delusion (cult). I believe that is true and Frank hasn't denied it.
If there is an insult or an attack in that it is all in the reception perception side of that exchange.

I don't think Frank wants bad things to happen to anyone.

I don't believe that is true for the orange man.

So I don't think It's really appropriate to be too harsh on people who want good things but just have a different approach to getting there than we do.

"Too harsh" is too harsh of an assessment of the comment I made that seems to be the central point you are making.

Approaches can be changed by trial and error. That's the process of learning. We can all be wrong.

My comments had nothing to do with approaches. So far, I don't see where anyone has learned much of anything and we all may be guilty of being wrong.

I think Frank now sees a different version of Jack Ax than he did a year or so ago. I know it took me nearly 2 years to see Jack for who he really was. How long did it take you?

I knew Jack was a 'different version' about 20 years ago when he posted hot and heavy on the old Utah.edu discussion board and then the yahoo list before he figured a way to monetize his connection to hang glider pilots with hg.org.
Now he doesn't have so much to say.

As for Michael and Red, I think they suffer from their own self-induced blind spots. There are certain things they just don't want to see. Few things make a person more angry than being forced to see something inside themselves that they don't want to see.

We all suffer blind spots. Self induced blind spots are mostly willful ignorance and believing things that just aren't true.
And that takes us back to the misunderstandings and misrepresentations of this thread.
Does Frank deny he has indicated in the past, an allegiance to the leftist delusion/derangement cult?
I don't believe he has.
The fact that he probably isn't able to do so is now another matter. The allegiance to the delusion/derangement cult has likely been escalated into the true believer status.
I don't believe that Adam Schiff, even believes what he says. But Frank probably does.
If Frank has changed his mind on the insane political witch hunt, I wish he would say so.
We could take it as a good sign for the country and everything in it going forward.
Give us a little hope, Frank?

[Free]

A while back Davis Straub, gas-lit his readers with a declaration that there was no division in the country.
But there is. People are miles apart in worldview, and that's politics.
Davis is either lying or totally clueless.
I think it's the first. He lies like a globalist.
He has lied, and I have pointed this out for years.
This is why he bans and deletes so often when some truth is exposed.
Davis Straub is anti-free speech, a globalist liar and a bit of a coward.
This is not an attack. It's an assessment.


This thread started for me, with a question on free speech. No attack. Just a question.
Instead of an answer I got accused of attacking a beloved senior benefactor.
Is this still the perception? Hope not, but someone let me know one way or the other.

Good holidays to everyone.
Warren
https://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... 97b#p27816