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Jack Axaopoulos Meltdown

Postby Free » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:18 pm

Pushed too far?


Jack Axaopoulos wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:49 am Post subject: New Bob Kuczewski, Scott C. Wise rule #1

After months of being smeared and attacked by these two guys, after everyone else else let it go, they are still at it on the torrey hawks forum. Even the new hawks forum is a cesspool for revisionist character assassinations against some of the best volunteers in the hang gliding community.

Well ive had it. Ive been pushed too far and am now defending myself and fighting back. They expect me to take punch after punch without countering. No more. Enough is enough.

TO PREVENT this ugly nonsense from ruining the new peace and tranquility that has occurred on the org since then, no BobK/Scott drama will be allowed to spill over onto this forum. All such threads will simply be DELETED.

This site is off limits to their vile from now on. I will not allow their destructive vitriol to take down this forum as it has the new hawks forum. Their new forum is just a pile of disgusting lies and smears. They no longer need the old torrey forum so I have shut it down and posted a counter message in self defense. They will play the victim now and email everyone in the world. Cry me a river. When you keep punching someone in the face for months, dont cry when they finally hit you back.

I know for a fact Bob and Scott will NEVER let it go and will continue to attack me, John Wright, John Borton, and other HGAA members that voted them out. But I will not allow that to ruin this site as well.

If anyone has an issue with this, just walk out the door. Dont threaten it, dont announce it, just walk out. Any such political nonsense will be deleted. Just leave instead. The Bob/Scott drama stops at the door. They will not be invited back and are not authorized to access this server in any way.

Ive really enjoyed the new peace at the org. Its been a lot quieter and more fun here. Lets keep it that way.

PM me if you really want to make a statement.

(EDIT: all the PM's so far have been very supportive and positive, thanks guys! )

THE END
Jack Axaopoulos


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http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=19144
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Re: Jack Axaopoulos Meltdown

Postby Free » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:51 pm

Jack Axaopoulos, in a fit of insanity, has deleted all history of the original Torrey Hawks forum.
Anyone going there will be met with this:
Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club Forum Index
The topic or post you requested does not exist
(c) hanggliding.org All rights reserved. Based on PhpBB


And this, a personal message from Jack Axaopoulos:

Just in case you run into any crazy sounding posts on this forum, the following will explain why:

Scott C. Wise
Please excuse the wild rantings of Scott C. Wise. He abused his powers with the HGAA(Hang Gliding Association of America), and was immediately and democratically voted out of office by a majority vote of the founders of the HGAA(Hang Gliding Association of America). Scott C. Wise has also been kicked out of the Southern New York Hang Gliding club website, the Rochester Area Flyers website and the hanggliding.org website.
Quite the track record of working well with people, dont ya think?
He now spends his days fabricating wild stories and smearing some of the best volunteers in the sport of hang gliding, who voted him out of office, as a form of childish revenge.
Bob Kuczewski
Was also voted out of the HGAA(Hang Gliding Association of America). He commited blatant voter fraud by asking the administrator to take peoples election voting points and transfer them to Scott. C. Wise. They now have a new home together where they can complain about their situation to each other on another forum, and write fictional revisionist stories about the horrible people at the HGAA who wronged them (SARCASM)
Bob has been banned by the 2 largest online hang gliding communities in the world and continues to fabricate stories and smear the volunteers who voted him out of office instead of spending that energy on promoting the sport he claims to love.


The only crazy sounding post you will find on the old Torrey Hawks forum is that of Jack (Bunny Boy) Axaopoulos.

http://www.torreyhawksforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=7577
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Re: Jack Axaopoulos Meltdown

Postby wingspan33 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:34 pm

Jack sure seems to be in another melt down stage.

I don't recall ever "ranting" about anything on the Torrey Hawks Forum site. So, what will anyone find there? I think I've only posted there once or twice.

I know I haven't been able to gain access to the site since Jack Axaopoulos (apparently) revoked my member status - without Torrey Hawks' leadership approval. That was 2 - 2 1/2 months ago, at least.

I guess Jack's imagination and fear are out of control. It seems that every web site that he has any connection to, he eventually takes over as supreme dictator - or destroyer. He's like a severely spoiled child throwing a hysterical tantrum.

As I posted most recently, Jack is demonstrating his NEED to maintain control. But he can't control what we say here. Therefore, he may feel that his insulated "Pleasantville" world is threatened. Apparently, his only course was to strike out at the Torrey Hawks Forum site - which he "created" for the Torrey Hawks and for which he holds the admin keys. But why attack that site? Well, perhaps it's because that's as close as he can come to shutting this site down.

All this from a guy who doesn't fly anymore. I can't imagine what motive he's got for even being involved in any hang gliding web site. Perhaps it's the vicarious thrill and/or ego boost he gets from inviting real (but obedient?) hang glider pilots into his virtual "living room".

I think the community of hang glider pilots involved with HG.org has been a wonderful and generally positive group. However, at this point, I have to give the greatest credit for the positive nature of HG.org to it's members, not to it's administrator.

The reality is that, at this point, HG.org is no longer an authentic "community". It's just a bunch of hang gliding fans chatting in Jack's "living room", some of whom have reason to be pretty nervous about him going off the deep end on them.

. . . . [pause]

LOL ! ! !

I just took a look at Jack's post on HG.org. His post is basically a post about no one posting on the subject he's posting on. What a laugh!

Then, . . . get this, . . . he gloats about receiving only positive, supportive PM's regarding his post/thread. What does he expect, . . . people who like to post there pissing him off with a negative PM? HG.orgers know better than that by now. "Kiss (or, . . . Don't criticize) the king's butt or you're banned" would be a better title for his thread (or would proclamation be a better word?).

I wonder how likely it will be for someone to reply to Jack's post? I'll bet that few or no replies will be made and it will be on the front page for only a few hours at the most. Unless Jack himself (or one or more of his cronies?) replies in order to keep it visible (or Jack manipulates things). Under normal circumstances I wouldn't expect it to last much longer than those posts that get sunk to the basement so unusually quickly over there.
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Re: Jack Axaopoulos Meltdown

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:01 pm

wingspan33 wrote:I wonder how likely it will be for someone to reply to Jack's post?

I think the answer is ZERO since he locked the topic after his post.

Didn't someone criticize you for doing that Scott? I can't remember who that was. :roll:

By the way Scott, don't you feel special that Jack actually named a new rule after us? :lol:

bobkscottw_rule.png
Bob and Scott Rule created by Jack

Hey Jack, you say you've been pushed too far and now you're going to fight back. How about coming over here and fighting back? Don't worry, we won't ban you or remove your posts. You can say whatever you want and we'll go over each and every claim you've made point by point, distortion by distortion. Or we can do it at your place if you like. Clear out some of that furniture in the "living room" and let's resolve this once and for all.

What say you? Are you up for it?
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Re: Jack Axaopoulos Meltdown

Postby Free » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:56 pm


I guess Jack's imagination and fear are out of control. It seems that every web site that he has any connection to, he eventually takes over as supreme dictator - or destroyer. He's like a severely spoiled child throwing a hysterical tantrum.

All this from a guy who doesn't fly anymore. I can't imagine what motive he's got for even being involved in any hang gliding web site. Perhaps it's the vicarious thrill and/or ego boost he gets from inviting real (but obedient?) hang glider pilots into his virtual "living room".


One reason that Jack runs several forums is that he is data mining (google stalking) for fun and profit.
He gets cash for selling your personal data. They call that marketing these days.
This is why Dennis Cavagnaro got in bed with Jack on the "Lead Generation" scheme.
They both claimed to be doing it for the good of hang gliding but would not give up the ownership/money stream.
I don't know which one squeeled the loudest that the corporation stole their grand plan.
I'm not so computer savvy but the whole lead generation thing just seemed like such an unbelievably clumsy device to hook people up with hang gliding.. and at a cost of $15,000 to start?

Who knows what USHPA is spending now to google stalk people for a service they can't provide.
Who knows how and where the money is being funneled?
Who knows how many targets are google stalked that would have found hang gliding on their own, if there was instruction available? How many 'interested' google stalked targets find that NO instruction is available anyway?

The reality is that, at this point, HG.org is no longer an authentic "community". It's just a bunch of hang gliding fans chatting in Jack's "living room", some of whom have reason to be pretty nervous about him going off the deep end on them.


Bunny boy Jack has turned into raving lunatic. He rants about being so persecuted but never posts the evidence.
He threatens anyone against speaking up and cajoles sycophants into licking boots.. the ones that do are noted for the government's data base. They make good slaves.. and gatekeepers.. brownshirt thugs and minions.. but I digress.. this is Bunny Boy's thread.. the big thumper. :lol: Don't cross the big thumper!

Jack repeatedly attacks other people's logic.
Where is the logic in thinking he can control every website?
I think the boy has gone daffy.
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Dedicated to battle?

Postby Dennis » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:26 am

For all of us here, I wish to point out an observation, one that bothers me.

USHawks forums are to my understanding a place to discuss hang gliding, that said, I spot several threads all dedicated to one thing, "Doing Battle", and, doing battle with two particular persons, Jack and John.

Now, I understand that there are some fires burning that don't seem to be able to be extinguished, however, if USHawks exists to promote hang gliding rather than a battleground in which to engage Jack, John or Hanggliding.org, it has gone the direction of the later.

I expended a lot of effort to put this fire out, and, the principals are virtually walking in behind me tossing lumber and gasoline on the flames. There shall be no winner in that battle, only different degrees of losing for each of the participants. When do actions go from being sane to insane? I really worked HARD on that thread at HG.org to promote peaceful resolution and reconciliation, I am angry in what I am witnessing.

Gentlemen, I urge you to take the HIGH GROUND, bickering back and forth between the boards is pointless, serves no purpose, it is senseless and only serves to create a bigger chasm between the parties. It doesn't matter who is doing what, who said what first, what does matter is that it is going back and forth. These back and forth attacks shall only provoke one another. Which one will be willing to just STOP no matter what the other guy says or does.

I would be remis if I didn't say this here since I said essentially the same thing on the org.

Gentlemen, the ONLY winning move is NOT to play.

A long time ago, fresh out of the Academy, my Field training officer said to me, "Dennis, if you're going to be a good guy, BE A GOOD GUY, otherwise, take the badge off and get the F*ck out". Wise words, he makes lots of sense.

If this is a fight you wish to take up and pursue, I can't stop you, obviously so, how things panned out. Just remember, the beginning of this mess was "Voting on how to vote".

Ask yourselves "How can I get what I want"? Detail what you want, think on how to get that, then, proceed.

Remember, I DID say I have no problems pointing out when I see something my friends are doing wrong, this is me doing that very thing. This is an event where anger is unchecked, diplomacy has failed and neither side will back down. Where does it go from here? It may be viewed that I am sitting in the fence, the truth is, I am exhasperated. I know Jack reads this forum, as well as John, si, I can address everyone when I say this: When the time comes where I am frustrated and throw my hands in the air and tell the parties, go ahead, duke it out, it's probably reaches a level of absurd. So, duke it out if you wish, Gentlemen, I'm going to go down to the LZ and remind myself of what being a pilot is. You are all invited to join me.

-Dennis
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Re: Dedicated to battle?

Postby Free » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:02 am

Dennis wrote:
I expended a lot of effort to put this fire out, and, the principals are virtually walking in behind me tossing lumber and gasoline on the flames. There shall be no winner in that battle, only different degrees of losing for each of the participants. When do actions go from being sane to insane? I really worked HARD on that thread at HG.org to promote peaceful resolution and reconciliation, I am angry in what I am witnessing.



Ok, I'll plead guilty. I see and appreciate what you tried to do.
You haven't been banned yet but you have been censored.
You can't say any more in Jack's sandbox or you will be banned and your words expunged.
You saw an injustice and spoke up.

Now you are silenced.. there.

Jack isn't going to change and he just didn't think this through. He doesn't deserve to have this go away.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Life isn't a bowl of cherries.

Power plays, distortions and lies about people are not ok with me.
I admire what you have done but to shut up now would be a win for power plays, lies and distortions.. and censorship. Are you ok with that?
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Re: Dedicated to battle?

Postby Dennis » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:20 am

Free wrote:
Dennis wrote:
I expended a lot of effort to put this fire out, and, the principals are virtually walking in behind me tossing lumber and gasoline on the flames. There shall be no winner in that battle, only different degrees of losing for each of the participants. When do actions go from being sane to insane? I really worked HARD on that thread at HG.org to promote peaceful resolution and reconciliation, I am angry in what I am witnessing.



Ok, I'll plead guilty. I see and appreciate what you tried to do.
You haven't been banned yet but you have been censored.
You can't say any more in Jack's sandbox or you will be banned and your words expunged.
You saw an injustice and spoke up.

Now you are silenced.. there.

Jack isn't going to change and he just didn't think this through. He doesn't deserve to have this go away.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Life isn't a bowl of cherries.

Power plays, distortions and lies about people are not ok with me.
I admire what you have done but to shut up now would be a win for power plays, lies and distortions.. and censorship. Are you ok with that?


Thank you for your words, I don't think you should plead "Guilty", rather, awe hell, I guess I am just feeling sorry for myself that I didn't get what I wanted. I am going to kick myself into the shower, late start of the day for me, head down to the LZ and do something flying related. Frankly, my brain hurts and I need some R&R.

-Dennis
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Re: Dedicated to battle?

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:49 am

Dennis wrote:Thank you for your words, I don't think you should plead "Guilty", rather, awe hell, I guess I am just feeling sorry for myself that I didn't get what I wanted. I am going to kick myself into the shower, late start of the day for me, head down to the LZ and do something flying related. Frankly, my brain hurts and I need some R&R.

-Dennis

Go get your R&R Dennis. You've earned it in my book. You've earned my thanks as well. So thanks!!

There's more to this than two groups fighting against one another. There are fundamental principles of fairness and justice at stake here. Granted, we're talking about fairness and justice in the microcosm of the hang gliding world, but if we can't even get that, then we've got no hope of tackling anything bigger.

I don't like bullies anywhere ... whether it's David Jebb at Torrey or Paul Montville at USHPA or Jack Axaopoulos at the HGAA. Now some bullies are just bullies, and must be recognized as such, but others are really good decent people who just let their emotions run away with themselves. You can tell the difference by how they react when they're called on their actions over a period of time. My original hope was that Jack and John would cool down a bit after their HGAA witch hunt and show some regret and some willingness to compromise. That's why I was willing to write the first letter that you suggested ... asking for reconciliation. But you saw their reaction, and that's telling you something. Their defacing of the Torrey Hawks web site and forum is telling you something as well. With each escalation they are showing everyone who they really are ... bullies.
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Re: Jack Axaopoulos Meltdown

Postby wingspan33 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:58 pm

As I predicted, Jack is posting to his own thread to keep it on the front page of HG.org. Otherwise he's got it locked so that no critical-of-him posts can be added. Yet he's got no compulsion against unlocking it so he can post to it so as to keep it "artificially" visible.

Oh, and his message early this morning involves more gloating over how nobody has the nerve to send him a negative PM about his attack thread. Is that very surprising after he (yesterday) laid down the following edict:

Jack Axaopoulos wrote:. . . If anyone has an issue with this, just walk out the door. Dont threaten it, dont announce it, just walk out. Any such political nonsense will be deleted. Just leave instead. . .
[ from:http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=19144 ]

Odd how Jack Axaopoulos (SG) has a HG.org web site rule against personal attacks, but then violates it with this kind of behavior. "Hypocrite" comes to mind as well as "two faced". It's also an example of a "leader" who has one rule for those he lords over and another rule for himself - that further qualifies this as an example of a double standard, no?

This is a very sad situation. But Jack brought it all down upon himself. He needed to control how the HGAA was being formed, didn't like what he was seeing and created an excuse to seize control.

With a good deal of (misplaced?) loyalty and "benefit of the doubt" thinking on the part of Jack's closest supporters, they helped him justify an obvious coup d'état . In this coup, Jack, as simply one member of a 16 member Transition Team took sole control of the HGAA web site under the (delusional?) excuse that those same 16 people were, on their own, incapable of electing a new Chairman - after I had resigned in response to Jack's harassing and irrational attack behavior.

Well, If Jack doesn't recognize his character flaws then he's likely to have continued problems in the future. If he does already recognize them, then people associated with him should beware. He's a manipulator.

I'd like to add that, while HGAA was and is a good idea, the basic concept was to create an organization that respected its members.

The idea was not to create an organization that, within one month of gaining some momentum, would be taken over by one person (Jack Axaopoulos) who immediately acted to undermine the most critical founding ideals of that organization. It may be a convincing story that Jack is telling about how the HGAA needed a firmer hand to move it forward, but that "firmer hand" has successfully beaten the life out of the HGAA.

Most importantly, as approached, the idea of creating a new organization solely by way of internet interaction was and is a disaster. It was not done well and was rushed way too fast. The web site, as things began, was in no way designed (by Jack Axaopoulos) to be practical for the purpose. It was a Forum chat site - not a place to do efficient business. I now believe that the ability to hold real-time meetings is critical and it was and still is lacking.

Just prior to resigning my Chairmanship I proposed a possible solution, but as I wrote that proposal announcement Jack Axaopoulos was busy creating an unauthorized (by the Transition Team) informal poll (not an authorized formal vote by any measure) to oust me as Chairman. He had begun a personally motivated revolt over me firing my Vice Chairman (Jack's friend, John Borton [aka JB]) - who I had been urged to pick for myself so that we would be more likely to work well together. The reverse logic being that if we didn't work well together - I could fire him.

The record will show that I originally suggested to the Transition Team that the whole group elect a Co-Chairman, but I was convinced by the input of other TT members that the position should not have equal status as the Chairman's position and that I should appoint the person - that they not be elected. It was, therefore, unmistakable that since I could appoint my Vice Chairman, then I could un-appoint him.

However, Jack Axaopoulos could not follow such simple logic and insisted that I was abusing my power for firing JB - that I should have held an election to see if the Transition Team wanted JB gone. Well, that's loony talk. John Burton's position was not an elected position - therefore it did not require a vote to relieve him of that position. Jack's LOUD protestations (the beginning of his mutiny) to the contrary can't change that FACT.

Still, that was the basis for Jack Axaopoulos' move to take over HGAA. It makes no sense unless you factor in John Borton and Jack Axaopoulos' goal to install a organizational voting system that they knew could be manipulated toward their best interests. In fact, by Jack's own definitions, it HAS been used in an abusive and corrupt manner by him and his supporters - to achieve their goals. This was done, most notably, during the votes to ban Bob and I from the HGAA forum.

HGAA Transition Team and Founding members have seen all this going on, and between not being fooled by Jack Axaopoulos' intentionally misleading rhetoric and the general chaos and confusion caused by Jack's actions, a majority of them have walked away from the this version of a new national hang gliding organization. They have walked away, not because of what Bob or I have said or done, but because they don't want to be part of what is now, effectively, the SGAA.

If someone disagrees with this claim, then please think a bit on how things would have gone if Jack A. had chosen a respectful course, not started his little revolt (based on a false premise) and the whole Transition Team had had the ability to give some thought to my suggestions as announced the day after I relieved JB of his Vice Chairmanship.

If you don't know or don't recall, that announcement involved a suggestion that a smaller (6 member?) "Leadership Team" be elected and that they meet regularly by way of some form of internet teleconferencing mechanism - where they would meet and speak "face to face" and respectfully, with each other and work together to find real solutions towards creating a new national hang gliding association.

What future does the HGAA have? Well, Jack Axaopoulos rejected Ryan Voight's attempt, 2 months ago, to mend fences by refusing to apologies for his take over of the HGAA web site. Much more recently he's refused Dennis D's attempt to begin a healing process where BobK (and I) are allowed to return to HG.org. What is this inability to admit mistakes? Perhaps it's an inability to recognize mistakes. If that's the case, then the SGAA is doomed to failure.
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