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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:04 pm

Wing5 designing progress:
Beams for the High Hat (HH) and control-frame downbeams will probably each be made of two parts joined; aim is to provide:
1. Center-beam anti-buckle enhancement
2. Taper from beam center to beam ends
3. Shorter-than-5-ft-pack potential. Going toward 3-ft pack instead of 5-ft .pack
4. Considering beams as C channel or angle format for packing using part nesting
5. Aiming for some "wearing" of parts; the shorter lengths may allow "wearing" of some beam segments.
GoFor3ftmaxbeamsegments.png
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:29 pm

Spar-case decision for Wing5, iteration #1:
Probably 6 zippers (jacket type, separating) of 5-ft length instead of one 30 -ft zipper. If a zipper region goes bad, then only the shorter zipper holding the defect would need to be replaced.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:16 am

Furthering iteration one of Wing5:
1. Packing will have spar case separated from mainsail. In pack: Each will folded once and then will "wrap" around a core of hard items. For flight the mainsail will be zippered or hook-and-looped to the spar case (final decision has not yet been made).

2. This morning's prediction for pack volume: under 5 cubic feet.

3. Shape of pack prediction as of now: approximately rectangular luggage-like in feet: 1x1.5x3 for 4.5 cubic feet. Teflon slider or two wheels may be added to the hike-time pack for trailering from self; during bus: no wheels, but simply carry by one hand or hug pack: can be on my lap if bus seated. But standing is preferred; and often such pack may be placed under some seats. If bus is with low ridership and one has access to two adjacent seats, then pack may rest on lap horizontally.

4. Wing system will utilize two parts to make up many key parts. E.g. Keel: two parts to make the keel tube. Batten ribs made of two parts each. Compression elements CEL and CED will be made of 3-ft segments coupled interiorly at ends of segments; nine or ten segments will make each of the CEs; so there will be a total of 18 or 19 or 20 compression-element segments.

5. Looks like first effort for compression element marriage with spar case will be: one face of the compression element will have bonded a strip of non-slip rug or shelf liner; the spar case will have a run of matching anti-slip liner sewn for facing the compression element liner; liner against liner pressed by inflation pressure of the bladder may well suffice for the aimed marriage. A few small straps will be sewn in place inside the spar case to firm position and orientation of the compression-element assemblies prior to bladder inflation; once inflation occurs, the compression-element assembly will keep its position with a flat face to the interior of the spar case.

6. The final pack will have a ground-protection sheet (PS) wrapping all the other parts. The public bumping into the pack would only experience softer fabric, approximately an inch thick... a neat padding of nearly 50 layers of various fabrics: spar case, mainsail, and ground protection sheet. Wear helmet. Wear harness. Small backpack of water, food, cell phone, note pad, first-aid, extra socks, lines, kites. There will not be a separate dedicated luggage container; the wing parts will make up the sum total of pack except perhaps one low-mass bottom plate at bottom of a pillow case; such pillow case will hold the "hard" parts forming the central core of the pack. The pillow case may be used as a sand bag for tensioning the PS; the bottom plate may be a flying disk for play. Two parts of the keel tube will be filled with other hard parts of 3-ft lengths like the rib struts, batten-rib parts, compression-element segments.

7. Ground protection sheet (PS) will have primary and secondary uses. Primary: During assembly and packing, the spar case will be unzipped and opened flat. Avoiding sand will be the aim while handling the placement of compression elements and spar bladder/valve. Sock sandbags may be used to spread the PS. Some secondary uses of the PS: target, wind tell, play sail, privacy tent, ground cover picnic, shader, kite tail, ... and more. PS will be 5 ft by 32 feet of nylon ripstop at low-ounce per yard.

8.Wing hard parts: Two wing-tip ribs made of three parts or two parts (not yet finalized). Regular batten ribs each of two parts. Two stay struts staying tip ribs. Stay strut for each regular battened rib. Keel of two parts. High hat (HH) two beams each of two parts. Two queen posts each of two parts. Control bar of two parts. HH wing. X fitting at center of spar front or back (not yet decided). Rib stand-offs, if used. Pulleys for wing-morphing. Compression element beam segments with interior limit-coupler-entry stops. Cups or special Y-fitting (four) for tip of compression element assemblies; the fitting will receive the tension straps making the splinted air beam.

9.Wing soft parts: Bladder, spar case, mainsail, rigging lines, bow lines, control lines, HH axis line, flight straps for the splinted air beam that will press on the exterior of the inflated spar case.

10. Non-wing parts: PS, pillow case, socks, flying disk, small personals backpack (water, food, first-aid, ID, cash, credit card, permit card, ...) Wear harness. Wear helmet. Goggles. Senior bus card. Kite, k-line-reel. Change of shirt/windbreaker, swim shorts. Slider or thin hand truck.

11. Exact material specifications including final part weights will surface and be reported upon completion of the first iteration of Wing5; the resultants will be whatever will be! Not faced above: air pump and air-pressure meter. Frank Colver may be making the X fitting for the project. And maybe the block couplers for the compression-element joins; there will be 16 or 17 or 18 small block couplers to fit inside adjacent compression-element segments. The compression-element segments may be carbon fiber of rectangular format with rounded edges, but a flat face for bonding the anti-slip material. The couplers may be from aluminum, perhaps; the block fits inside the ends of adjacent compression-element segments. Thanks Frank!
Last edited by JoeF on Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:10 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Frank Colver » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:11 am

Joe, always remember that I have a standing offer to help you on this project with anything I am capable of helping with. Like machining of parts, cutting tubing, etc., etc. At no cost to you.

Unfortunately, I can't help with sewing or welding.

Just ask.

Frank

BTW - I have a stock of 3/32 cable, thimbles, and Nico sleeves that I bought for my Puffin project that now looks like will never be used. :(
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:21 am

Frank Colver wrote:Joe, always remember that I have a standing offer to help you on this project with anything I am capable of helping with. Like machining of parts, cutting tubing, etc., etc. At no cost to you.

Unfortunately, I can't help with sewing or welding.

Just ask.

Frank

BTW - I have a stock of 3/32 cable, thimbles, and Nico sleeves that I bought for my Puffin project that now looks like will never be used. :(


Thanks, Frank, I so ask: :salute: :clap: :wave: :thumbup:
11. Exact material specifications including final part weights will surface and be reported upon completion of the first iteration of Wing5; the resultants will be whatever will be! Not faced above: air pump and air-pressure meter. Frank Colver may be making the X fitting for the project. And maybe the block couplers for the compression-element joins; there will be 16 or 17 or 18 small block couplers to fit inside adjacent compression-element segments. The compression-element segments may be carbon fiber of rectangular format with rounded edges, but a flat face for bonding the anti-slip material. The couplers may be from aluminum, perhaps; the block fits inside the ends of adjacent compression-element segments. Thanks Frank!
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:18 pm

An "air" offer from hang glider pilot Angela:
AirOffer.jpg
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:52 am

Wing5, iteration one, change order regarding marriage of compression element to spar case:
https://www.hookandloop.com/

Hoping against hope, I was aiming to avoid compression-element "hook-and-loop" method of marrying the compression element segments to the spar case. Looked at were other methods: low pressure anti-skid, zipper, mushroom dual lock, elastic pressure for teeth matching. But, for iteration one, it looks like hook-and-loop will win. Bond hook to top face of compression-element 3-ft segments. Sew loop run to the inside of the spar case. The change choice involves a packing labor that was not wanted but will be tolerated: spar case interior face down on PS (ground protection sheet), foot on compression element, then grab and peel spar case off the compression element for about 30 feet or some less, maybe 28 feet. Such added labor will pay dividends in having a better marriage of compression element with spar case. The hook-and-loop gives a tight and firm join, holds the element during assembly, and will easily hold enough use cycles.

During flight loading of wing and its splinted air beam spar, the Dyneema straps from compression element points over the outside of the spar case to the opposite side will take up the tension from the loading.

The compression-element segments of 36 inches length will align as one long compression element via being joined by couplers (plug fitting so that the ends of adjacent segments will not deflect laterally or vertically from each other, allowing the compression to stay linear along the compression element assembly from near spar tip to far near spar tip.

===============================================
Miscellaneous idea:
Two bladders that communicate via a firm hose? A ring at spar center placed inside the spar case could be a disk with a small hole; run a small communicating hose through the small hole that joins a left bladder to a right bladder to obtain equal pressure in both left wing and right wing bladders. The rigid disk might stabilize the spatial position of the crossing point of the Dyneema straps that wrap the outside of the spar case from ends of the compression elements. The rigid holed disk would become part of the keel system. The disk or disks might provide a good foundation for the X fitting.
Unbaked: two disks at center closing a sided spar case; bolt disks together; have air-communicate hole and hose in both disks. Would having sided spar cases and sided bladders bring some benefits in flight, in packing?
CentralSparDiskoneortwosameair.png
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:38 pm

Just received 18 bladders for 6-ft-span modelling. PVC doodles, $3 each.
Sewing machine is at the ready to sew up model spar case. Huskar.
Have various fabrics to make some model 6-ft spar case.
Have handy some materials for model compression elements.
Will explore to destruction using various compression elements and various air pressures.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:56 am

Report of a first experiment with one of the 6-ft doodles.
Taped compression element to inflated doodle. No spar case. Soon a model fabric spar case will be made for a next experiment.
Results.
1. Tightness of bond of compression element to the spar is going to be paramount. A high shearing stress occurs between the compress element and the skin of the air beam during flight loading.

2. A central rigid disk will give advantages. Lower air pressure, if the rigid disk at keel is one advantage. Less deformation of spar when loaded will result. Having a central rigid disk at the keel in the air beam may mean having a left and a right bladder that communicate air and its pressure via a short hard hose.

3. Non-stretch of flight-load straps that go on outside of air beam from compression-element stations to compression-element stations will be important.

4. Air pressure awareness is going to be important.
=================================
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:49 pm

Wing5, iteration one notes:

Holdfast CE segments to spar case:
Layers:
Inverted U tie string hand sewn to the below spar case-webbing-hook tape; leave enough length of the string for making the securing knot; knots should be easily unknotted for packing operation. Have such string item at the tips of the segments and two stations interior of the CE segments; that make four such strings per CEL segment. With nine or ten CEL segments that will be 36 or 40 strings to be given a knot tying. The strings are permanently joined to the spar case and webbing.
Spar case
Webbing spanwise sewn to spar case
Hook tape sewn to webbing
Loop bonded to top of CE segments
CE segments
Tie shoe-tie tight knot using the ends of the inverted U tie string.

Packing: release knots; invert spar case; peel off spar-case-hook tape. The CE segments with loop tape segments then will be free to pack.

First explore not having a CED, but only have CEL; see what happens without the CED. Root rib struts to a small plate secured in the spar case. If the Wing5 can be satisfactory without the CED, then great: less materials and less mass. A CED might be needed, but wait for the need to show itself.

If the above arrangement does not satisfy shear resistance, then consider Dual-Lock.

The most outboard CE segment's outboard tip will be cupped with webbing and the splinted airbeam exterior-of-spar case Dyneema straps. The "cupping" might not be an actual cup; consider wrapping the webbing around CE segment tip and set with say 5 inches of Dual Lock. And then also integrate the Dyneema exterior straps by way of a coin of Dual Lock; see how that goes. Or maybe sew integrate webbing of spar case to exterior strap short strap segment with bling strap coupler for strap tension adjustment.
===========================
Wing5EffortOneMarryCELsegmentsToSparCase.png
Holdfast CEL segments to spar case
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