[Bob Kuczewski]

That's a bummer about Al.   

I got a call from him just a few days ago. We didn't talk long, but I didn't know he was selling (or sold) his glider.

If what you said about the H$ rating is true, that's a huge problem that USHPA should be addressing. Ratings should never be sold like that.

With regard to Tad, I think the best solution is to just ask him what he wants and then vote on it without all the arguing. You're absolutely right that we've spent way too much time on those issues, and we should start moving onward.

Thanks for hanging in through all the tough times Sam!!   

[Bill Cummings]

Al called a few days ago and told me he sold his equipment. Being retired I was able to answer his questions over the phone and devote 6 to 7 hours a week discussing hang gliding.
I’m disappointed too in all the road blocks in hang gliding, whether it be weather, MONEY, family, work, not being a trust baby, health, distance, gate keepers, ---- the list goes on. (Forgot--FAA! They drove the price up at air parks. So rule makers too.)

Al offered to GIVE me his equipment but I talked him into selling it and not loose any more to the sport that he was having such a hard time bulldozing his way into. I didn’t mind helping Al along with information and advice on hang gliding since I was doing what I could to give back to the sport.

If it were not for the Rio Grande Soaring Association (RGSA) I would be out of hang gliding years ago. They have me in the air where without their help I would be selling equipment too.
I hurt my back in the Army. Although the VA doesn’t think I have back pain it hasn’t gone unrecognized by the RGSA.
Here is how it usually goes: Someone pulls up in my driveway goes into my garage and loads my glider onto their vehicle, then loads my harness bag.
With a special strap, I invented, I put it around the headrest, cross it behind my back, put it under each arm and Velcro it in front of my chest. This takes a lot of weight off of my L-3 vertebra. Together with my belly band, lower back support, and Celebrex, I can make the two hour ride to launch. I feel a lot like a guy in a straight jacket. The guys/saints unload my glider and carry it to a tie down. I set it up and they carry it to the back of the ramp where I hook in. With the help of the wind we pick it up, walk it onto the ramp and I launch, fly, land and unhook. Someone runs out to carry in my glider. I knock it down and someone helps load the glider onto the vehicle. Once home the saints put the glider and harness back in my garage.
If any of you have a club that can beat that you should post it below.
We lack good training hills in our area. It’s most practical to move in with a solid H2, AWCL, TUR, with your instructor or a H3 without an instructor.
If we had more good training hills for HG, and Al lived here he would not have to BUY a rating.
We lost Al. hopefully not for ever.
For the people in HG that would think, “So what, I wasn’t going to make any money off him anyway.” SHAME ON YOU!
PS: If you are a dealer that sells equipment to qualified pilots ---Guess what? A sale got away. Find out why and try and fix it.

[miguel]

Early on in my career, I was presented with the hard sell pay for your rating scenario. I had decided that the instructor was money grubbing and a few cards short of a deck, so I passed on the offer. At the time, all of the training hills were on unregulated land so ratings did not count for much. Eventually, an advanced unrated pilot took me under his wing. When I told him that I had no rating, he gave me a version of “we don’t’ need no stinking ratings around here.” I also found a group of low time pilots , some of whom had ratings and some who did not. I flew for over 2 years with no rating. I received a rating because I buzzed launch and nobody had ever seen anybody do that. The story got out and I got a rating.

Al, don’t sell your equipment. Put it away. Save some money for a vacation and get a rating somewhere else.

[ZackC]

Tad, I will reiterate that your post had nothing to do with Al's first high flight. Whether you're talking about Eric or John, you have not connected the dots between their deaths and Al's first flight.

This seems like stating the obvious, but...Al and John had the same instructor, and Tad believes John was not adequately trained for the circumstances he was allowed to fly in, resulting in catastrophic consequences. Pilgrim spoke positively about Al's instructor, and Tad wanted to warn Al that, given what happened to John, those sentiments may be misplaced.

As for the money thing, I wouldn't throw stones at Jeff until you have the whole story. I've employed his services twice in the past and he never asked for any money (though his fees were clearly posted) - I had to broach the subject. Jeff does this for a living, and he certainly doesn't get rich doing it.

Al, why not get your sign-offs from Jack?

Zack

[SamKellner]

Miguel,

Good story. That method of getting ratings works, maybe better in those days. My story is something like that.

That's good advice to Al.

No matter if he sold a glider, he has good experiences under his belt. That will not go away with the sell of the glider.

Actually, looking at his log book , no bent downtubes in all his training, and the first time any instructor took enough time to take Al to the hill, he performs far above the expected tasks of a first time FL solo. I say that as a compliment to Al and also to point out that he could have been doing FL all year if there was instruction early on in spring.

Although our winters are mild and flyable year round, the HG instruction in the Austin, Tx. area goes to Mexico about this time of year and returns in late spring. That leaves all last year's newbs, with new gliders, without their instructor, and itching to fly. Recipe for trouble.
Ironic how this topic, by chance, comes full circle.

The fatal accident video in the first message of this topic was not failure to hook-in, as far as I know.

Knowing the "whole story" will never happen. No need. What's "trending"? H-1 deaths in Reg11?

The pilot ratings in this month's U* mag lists eight H-1s for July. That is the good news .

Five signed off by the instructor Zack mentioned. Two appear to have gone to Lookout.

Eight H-1s in Reg11, with FL. The only FL site in Tx, Packsaddle, is closed till after hunting season, or '12.

What will these H-1 be doing next spring when the site opens.

[TadEareckson]

bobk - 2011/11/06

He didn't ... make some tortured comparison...

Zack C - 2011/11/08

This seems like stating the obvious...

Zack C - 2011/11/08

...Al and John had the same instructor...

Christian Williams - 2011/10/25

What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.

Shane Nestle - 2010/06/26

We then unfastened the glider and moved out to the beginning of the ramp where we did a hang check...

After five minutes or so he yelled, "Clear!"

Al Hernandez - 2011/10/07

I did my hang check, made damn sure that I was hook-in...

A good cycle of wind started to blow my way. I yelled KLEAR...

Bill Cummings - 2011/11/05

The next time you go flying get vertical, keep your body straight and see how close you can hold your shins to the base tube. (Good luck with that. Then tell me you have more control over pitch...

Shane Nestle - 2010/06/26

Being that John was still very new to flying in the prone position...

Al Hernandez - 2011/10/07

Since I was upright...

Shane Nestle - 2010/06/26

Once he had his feet in the harness, approximately 4-5 seconds after launching, he began a gentle turn to the left (East). He was, at this point, approximately 150'-200' away from the hill, with a bank angle around 30 degrees. His turn continued without any significant change in angle until he had reversed course 180 degrees and was heading back at the ramp.

Al Hernandez - 2011/10/07

I was feeling anxiety, not so much of flying the glider, but the turns, the turns, this is what I was worried about this was the part that was going to kill me...

...and had just been flying off a small hill in Austin with no turns... I was going to have to make turns to keep my Butt alive... The only turns I had made were with Jack Walters last year on that tandem flight... I did not remember how to turn, I knew what the book said but I had not done it on my own on a solo flight...

bobk - 2011/11/07

Tad, I will reiterate that your post had nothing to do with Al's first high flight. Whether you're talking about Eric or John, you have not connected the dots between their deaths and Al's first flight.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Connecting dots wasn't a very highly emphasized activity in your kindergarten program?

So do you need me to tie your shoes now before you head out to this afternoon's tag finals?

[TadEareckson]

bobk - 2011/11/06

...Al's fun...

Al Hernandez - 2011/10/07

I got a call from Jeff Hunt in the morning to be out at Packsaddle Mountain to get a high flight later that evening, and he wanted me there at 5 pm on Monday... The thought of a high flight was kind of a shock, since I haven't flown altitude since last year, so, fear and confusion was doing the Macarena in my head.

All this was crossing my mind... The time When I didn't know how to fly a glider. and got up to altitude and didn't know what I was doing I had an idea but that wasn't going to do the trick, I flew the HG, but didn't know how to land a hang glider or I forgot about landing and busted my left leg. Then the thought the thought of how a thermal almost flipped me over crossed my mind.

I didn't show up on Monday. I wasn't sure I was ready for a high flight just yet.

I didn't sleep that night, trying to remember how to turn a glider, the inputs, plus I had not flown in a month or better... I tossed and turned in my bed that night, this will be my last day on Earth, next morning 5:30 am.

I got on the freeway and head to Pac, it was still dark all around, as I drove myself to the location, I kept thinking I am driving to my funeral, this will be the day that I die.

I was feeling anxiety, not so much of flying the glider, but the turns, the turns, this is what I was worried about this was the part that was going to kill me...

The Drive up the hill was killing me, as we were going up the rocky road to the top of Pac. I felt like I was going to puke. My turn was up the sand of time for me was running low...

Since I was not feeling so good they help me with my glider to the platform at Pac.

...more anxiety set in as I looked down at the cows.

I had not launched yet, because I was having an anxiety attack at the time... I could hear Jeffo telling inhale, exhale, you feel better now AL ?

...whatever was going to happen was going to happen. I told Jeff don't let me die before I launched...

I could hear the fabric on the glider flapping in the wind...

...there was so much wind I couldn't hear a word Jeff was say on the radio...

I was down and a little air sick, but was alive...

[SamKellner]

Al and John had the same instructor, and Tad believes John was not adequately trained for the circumstances

It is probably obvious to everyone that I did not connect the dots of Tad's post either.

It wasn't so ironic that the topic came full circle, after all, now that we understand Tad's meaning.

Zack's message was posted while I was writing mine.

Actually, John Seward had no instructor on site at the time of his accident.

**********The instructor had not yet returned from spending the winter months in Mexico. ***********

Shane Nestle was left, by the instructor to "mentor" John. Shane is H-2 with only FL and AT sign-off. I recall reading Shane's account how he was coaching John on the way to the flying site, about what to do if flying back toward the hill.

.........................................

Like I said in my previous post: Eight (8) new H-1,in July, in Reg11, with only FL sign-off. The training methods of this instructor are not as suspect as the absence each spring.

Looks like Shane will have his hands full, next year.

,
Sam

[ZackC]

Since Tad seems to require an interpreter, I'll elaborate a bit more...

Shane said

Being that John was still very new to flying in the prone position, I believe that he was likely not shifting his weight, but simply turning his body in the direction he wanted to turn.

Tad believes John died because he had not been taught to fly from the basetube. From Al's report, he hadn't been either. (Actually, from Al's report, it doesn't sound like he was taught how to do turns at all.)

Zack

[SamKellner]

from Al's report, it doesn't sound like he was taught how to do turns at all.

Yes, from Al's report. However from Al's description of the flight path taken and the amount of traffic on that day, he accomplished successfully quite a few turns.

~100% of newbs/students fly off Lookout Mtn, as instructed, with hands on the downtubes. You've been there, surely you agree.

It might be fact that John had not been instructed to transition to a prone position.

I'd be willing to bet that John, I know Al also, heard time and again, "lead with your feet".

From Shane's report, John rotated his body. Do you think John did, lead with his feet? He probably did. However, from the report, what ever he did, did not effect the glider.

I see a lot of Reg11 pilots, even H-3, that seem to be unsure of how to turn the glider, and attempting to land at trim.

Zack, do you ever attempt bank angles ~90*.


Preflight, Hangcheck, Know you're hooked in, go do wangs,
Sam