The US Hawks should:

[Bob Kuczewski]

I think the reason no one enforces USHPA's regulation is that it's too vague to be enforceable.

You're exactly right Zack. Thanks.   

For everyone who obsesses over being hooked in or not, get a flippin rear view mirror and attach it under the nose plate, simple enough.

Sam, you are quite a genius!!

Many years ago I had been thinking of a simple electronic hook-in system with a super-bright LED at the nose powered by a small button battery with the circuit going through the two contacts in a jumper socket dangling near the hang loop. The harness would have the jumper itself attached via a short string. So when you hooked in, you plugged the jumper into the socket to complete the circuit and turn on the LED. Since the jumper would not support the weight of the carabiner, it would be highly unlikely to be on unless the weight of the carabiner was supported by the hang loops (hooked in). As an option, it could be rigged up so that going prone would pull the jumper free so the light wouldn't be on throughout the flight.

But with all that thought, it never dawned on me that a mirror could be so much simpler and very difficult to fail. You could even place it to one side so it presents very little wind resistance along its length. Sam, that's a great idea!!!

P.S. With the increasingly common use of video cameras (and with their growing computing power), it might not be too hard to program a video camera do the visual checking. And if not, you could always mount a video screen at the nose so you can check your hook-in status in real time. Eventually, technology will do all of our thinking for us anyway.

[Nobody]

For everyone who obsesses over being hooked in or not, get a flippin rear view mirror and attach it under the nose plate, simple enough.

Brilliant, if only Scott,Jerome,Allen,Jim,yossi,bille,Mark,bill and Yoshimara had known about that bit of
"genius" .Perhaps posting that idea on the OZ report would help get the word out and save a few lives.

[TadEareckson]

Hey Nobody, cut him some slack. I like the idea.

Got me thinking we could also put mirrors on the tops of our shoes so we could check our leg loops - and look up the odd skirt should the opportunity present itself.

And think how much more interesting the whack videos will be.

And it'll make in a lot easier for bladewings to get into tight fields.

It's such an obvious solution! It's ASTOUNDING that manufacturers didn't think of this decades ago! Think of all the deadly lifts and tugs that could have been prevented in all those years! I guess they just can't afford to pay the people who have that level of talent.

Hope I can schedule a trip to the junkyard before all the good ones get snatched up.

[TadEareckson]

Another thought - just in case some unforeseeable problem with the mirror idea crops up.

We could just get little ribbons with "HOOK IN! HOOK IN! HOOK IN!" printed on them, give them away, and require everyone to use them as nose wire streamers.

Pilots are CONSTANTLY checking their telltales as they're preparing to launch. I just don't see any possible way a reminder like that wouldn't work.

Any thoughts?

[SamKellner]

I guess they just can't afford to pay the people who have that level of talent.

Oh, You guys are making me feel so warm and fuzzy.

Yes, my degree in barnyard technologies was expensive and has taken >50yr to complete.

Seriously, pilots attach cameras in just about all positions on the gliders, these days.

It won't hurt my feelings if someone wants to develop a light weight non-glass mirror that focus on ~5ft.

Some type of velcro patch attachment might be strong enough. DS gliders don't have many exposed structures for attachment.

Preflight, Hangcheck, Check your rear view mirror,
Sam

[Bob Kuczewski]

This brings up the general question of using rear-view mirrors in flight for other purposes as well. I've got most of my hours at relatively crowded sites like Sylmar and Torrey. There have been many times when I wished I'd had a rear-view mirror to keep track of traffic.

Bicyclists often use a little mirror that clips onto their glasses. Does anyone know of pilots who use any kind of rear-view mirror in flight? I would guess that the prone position puts one's body in the way much of the time, but maybe I'm wrong on that. Any thoughts?

[Bill Cummings]

All seriousness aside ---I’ve been using a rear view mirror for years while going cross country. From time to time I look in the mirror to see who’s lost.
I never once thought to look and check if I was still hooked in.

[SamKellner]

Bill,

Where do you attach your mirror?

[Bill Cummings]

Bill,

Where do you attach your mirror?

All seriousness aside----
I was just kidding.

[TadEareckson]

Tad Eareckson - 2009/12/19

Yeah, I know, smaller folk tend not to match control frame geometry as ideally as larger ones and may have undue difficulty lifting and tugging.

bobk - 2011/10/23

That's been my main objection to mandating the lift and tug for all people in all circumstances... ...But to mandate that everyone do a lift and tug ALWAYS or face some dire consequence (like losing their ratings) is beyond what I can support. Sorry. That's where I stand.

Tad Eareckson - 2011/10/24

Can you quote me - or ANYBODY - EVER saying that?

Some people are physically incapable of lifting and tugging in light or nonexistent air. But EVERYBODY can do SOMETHING to check connection status within five or ten seconds of launch.

So what I MANDATE is this:

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

And if you've got a USHGA rating it's ALREADY mandated.

bobk - 2011/11/04

This issue has been discussed at great length in many other topics, so I'd like to start collecting everyone's thoughts in one place. I'd also like to start building a solid consensus on what the US Hawks hook-in verification policy should be. I suspect this will require a series of proposals, discussions, and votes. So I'd like to start with one proposal that's been brought to us by Tad. Here's the proposition:

The US Hawks should:

A - REQUIRE ALL pilots to launch with a tight hang strap in ALL conditions.
B - RECOMMEND launching with a tight hang strap, but leave it to the pilot's decision whether it's safe to do so in any conditions.

Tad Eareckson - 2011/11/04

C - None of the above.

So I'd like to start with one proposal that's been brought to us by Tad.

1. Not by ANY stretch of the imagination. This is Bob's misrepresentation / distortion of what Tad's been saying.

2. Tad's proposal is essentially:

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

which, if you're a USHGA rated pilot, is the regulation under which you've been flying - WITHOUT OBJECTION - for the past three decades or any part thereof.

bobk - 2011/11/04

I'll leave it up to everyone to read the referenced material and decide for themselves if that's what you were saying or not.

1. I initiate a campaign to set a standard designed to eliminate failure to hook in catastrophes - the exact same one that USHGA put on paper over thirty years ago but never made the slightest effort to implement or enforce.

2. You imply that I'm trying to implement a policy mandating lift and tug for all people in all circumstances - despite the fact that I'm on record all over the web that I recognize that this is physically impossible for some people in some circumstances.

3. I flatly deny the characterization and ask you for any scrap of evidence that I've EVER said otherwise and accurately state my position.

4. You ignore my request to substantiate your statement and then a dozen days later go on to repeat the EXACT SAME ALLEGATION as fact.

5. I AGAIN flatly deny allegation and AGAIN accurately state my position.

6. You imply that I'm lying - still without the slightest shred of evidence - and tell the membership, at least three of whom are semiliterate halfwits with serious attention deficit disorder issues, to interpret what I've written (undoubtedly without actually bothering to read it themselves) any way they feel like (the same way they do "just prior to launch" clause).

I'm not terribly happy about any of that.