[SamKellner]

[3. Sam says the folk in his neck of the woods can't turn or land and Martin Apopot and B Asher have proven that they can't reliably figure out how to get airborne with their gliders.

Yes, I think flat land flying, as opposed to ridge soaring, might contribute to being scared to put a glider on a wing tip.

However IMO, Martin And B do not fall into this category.

[Bob Kuczewski]

These are the pilot and instructor ratings you're talking about accepting into US Hawks - no questions asked.

Maybe we need a vote on that as well. I do believe we should honor all current USHPA hang gliding ratings as valid.

Sam says ...

Due to Tad's continued animosity toward Sam, I don't read much of what Tad says that starts out with "Sam says...". My guess is it's either a direct attack or an implied attack or some other kind of attack.

So suggesting ideas like simulators to convey what it feels like to properly shift your weight isn't such a bad idea.

1. I love the idea of simulators. The more the merrier. I keep bugging my nephew to do on the computer whatever he can before he actually starts getting off the ground.

I don't mean a computer simulation (although that could be useful as well). I mean a real device that you hang from and shift your weight. The simplest example is to just hang from a glider on the ground with a mirror to show the deflection of the hang straps as the pilot moves. But I was also thinking about rigging up some kind of visual aid to those hang loops so that when you've pushed (deflected) them to the right, the visual aid banks proportionally to the right. It might even respond to pitch (although people generally don't have any "cross controlling" issues with pitch).

I'm thinking it could be something fairly simple and lightweight like "Tiny Hawk" ( see topic at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=197 ). It might attach to a bare control bar or to a regular glider. I'm thinking that the control bar could be stationary so gravity is always keeping the pilot centered. The pilot then has to shift off of center to deflect the hang strap which moves the visual aid. The key is having the hang strap deflection be the primary actuator so that cross controlling does not bank the visual aid - just as it does not in real flight. This could help show students why they can't steer with one hand (unless they've got tremendous wrist strength).

But unlike Tiny Hawk, I can't think of an easy way to do this off the top of my head. The best I can come up with has a few pulleys that would have to be attached to the control frame along with a shaft that sticks forward (attached to a rotating drum) to show the visual aid ... something like this:

Hang_Gliding_Steering_Sim.gif (10.19 KiB) Viewed 6498 times

Something like this could easily show a student how cross controlling does not rotate the model. It would also give the student a chance to see how far they can rotate the model with proper control inputs. If you've ever done this while hanging on the ground (without all the apparatus), you'll know that it can take a good bit of effort to really deflect the hang strap and hold it for a while. This is good for a student to understand when they really need to make a glider turn in a hurry.

By the way, here's a picture of Tiny Hawk for anyone who didn't follow that topic:

TinyHawkDemo.jpg (13.61 KiB) Viewed 6499 times

[TadEareckson]

Maybe we need a vote on that as well.

Gee. Just no way to predict how a vote on that issue is likely to turn out.

I do believe we should honor all current USHPA hang gliding ratings as valid.

Especially nowadays when the going rate for a One is four hundred bucks and a Two is twice that.

I wonder how much Danny Jones paid for his Four just before HE slammed back into Packsaddle and scrambled his brains. Based upon the One to Two progression it could be either eight or thirty-two hundred.

Due to your continued animosity toward Sam...

1. Imagine that. Animosity between glider people. Who'da thunk?

2. And so totally unwarranted and unfair.

3. Yeah there's an AMAZING amount of assumptions you make based upon what you haven't bothered to read - or feel like believing.

I don't mean a computer simulation...

I know.

I mean a real device...

I worked a long season in 1982 at Kitty Hawk Kites. We had people going to the basetube immediately after getting airborne and often starting on the basetube in a bit of air and I just don't seem to remember having the massive problem with "cross controlling" that all these Matt and Jeff victims who have their hands duct taped to the downtubes until the 2.5 level do.

And maybe the fact that we weren't forbidding people to bank the glider more than three or four degrees below five hundred feet would account for some of the discrepancy.

This could help show students why they can't steer with one hand (or with tremendous wrist strength).

You sure about that? I read Towing Aloft cover to cover and never found a single indication that using two hands to steer had the slightest advantage over one with even girlie man wrist strength. And if that were really true why would all the AT parks send people up with downtube mounted release actuators?

[Bob Kuczewski]

By the way Tad, I should take this opportunity to thank Sam for continuing to post here despite your continual unwarranted attacks and snipes. Unlike you and I, Sam can go post on the Oz Forum or Hanggliding.org anytime he wants. He doesn't need to put up with your endless drivel here or anywhere else. I believe Sam hangs around the US Hawks in spite of you because he believes in establishing a new organization to represent hang gliding.

My hat is off to Sam, and I apologize to him for Tad's continual sniping. Thanks Sam!!   

[TadEareckson]

By the way Tad, I should take this opportunity to thank Sam for continuing to post here despite your continual unwarranted attacks and snipes.

Me too. I've learned so much more than I would've ever believed possible. For example...

IMO, There are many other final checks, weather/wind check, instruments, LZ, etc.

I never before understood the importance of carefully checking to see that the LZ was still there just before running off the ramp.

Unlike you and I, Sam can go post on the Oz Forum or Hanggliding.org anytime he wants.

Yeah. That's what I MOST admire about it him. He's NEVER been sabotaged, sent to The Basement, locked down, deleted, or banned by Davis OR Jack.

Hell, he appears NOWHERE on The Jack Show Ignore List:

http://www.hanggliding.org/ignorereport.php

That takes a very special kind of person. I'm still at the top - head and shoulders above second place - even after having been kicked out for two years and two days. How I wish I weren't the sociopathic total scumbag that I am - and that my last three psychiatrists hadn't slashed their wrists so deeply that it was too late by the time they were discovered.

He doesn't need to put up with your endless drivel here or anywhere else.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28

Yeah, I've read that drivel before.
It's a load of s***.

1. Yeah, what a great feeling it must be to be able to go to a drivel free zone any time you want.

2. But, hey, just as soon as you appoint him President and give him the buttons there won't be any more drivel here either. It's just a matter of time.

I believe Sam hangs around the US Hawks in spite of you because he believes in establishing a new organization to represent hang gliding.

Yep. I can hardly wait to see how that turns out.

My hat is off to Sam, and I apologize to him for Tad's continual sniping.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to Sam for this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

from Nobody in response to one of Sam's posts a short time ago. After I finished watching in twenty times and got the giggling partially under control I felt really ashamed of myself.

[Nobody]

Sam can go post on the Oz Forum or Hanggliding.org anytime he wants.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=23901

[SamKellner]

And I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to Sam for this link:.

Thank You.
Sam

[Bill Cummings]

I hope all you guys realize that you can produce a debilitating kink in your tongue by holding it against your cheek for long periods of time.

[Bob Kuczewski]

I hope all you guys realize that you can produce a debilitating kink in your tongue by holding it against your cheek for long periods of time.

Well said.     

[Bob Kuczewski]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=23901

By the way, here's the current ignore list ...

AeroTow          22
cecilbunter          15
spork          12
Alfie Norks          9
BubbleBoy          7
lime          6
AIRTHUG          5
SeeMarkFly          3
davisstraub          3
MrXav          3
soren_ladegaard          3
bobk          3
Erik Boehm          2
axo          2
wayne smith          2
Scott          2
Wingspan34          2
Avnav8r          2
CHassan          2
skypimp          2
Richard Saffold          2
peanuts          2
LadyHawk          2
op          2
slabrasca          1
Naranek          1
red_feathers          1
judbuck          1
ChattaroyMan          1
Z          1
GuitarPilot          1
hgflyer          1
FlyMyU2          1
want2fly          1
noman3          1
wasabi          1
PredatorJoe          1
EricH          1
ifly4funn          1
k0ry          1
lostgriz          1
kyoung          1
HangDiver          1
rafaelcjr          1
SkyOrDie47          1
Jareth_Atian          1
old newbie          1
boarini2003          1
el_loco          1
Lobido          1
pike          1
SkyPoke          1
deletemebecauseidontagree          1
Sbone          1
Reborn          1
sgtest8989          1
tari          1
Fred Wilson          1
fly,surf,&ski          1
selbaer          1
Willmrx          1
Isabella          1
Luke Waters          1
Cav_Man_77          1
z7          1
jackiewaza          1
hnglidr          1
sailwalji          1
ajones          1
Andrew          1
Yi Wang          1
Davedebogusone          1
RetardedSpammer          1
Tom M          1
Wing Man          1
Astroboy2001          1
CF2HANG1          1
crvalley          1
gasdive          1
chadmay          1
TXJoel          1
jjcote          1
Nate          1
SG_IS_AWESOME          1
slimchance          1
Paul H          1
abcq1979          1
frank_hamann          1
FlyGuy3          1
day dreamer          1
miguel          1
kellyj994          1
skyshaddo          1
HGXC          1
aeroexperiments          1
HangDog          1
pjwings          1
Kirk Thompson          1
sweetie13          1
fakeDecoy          1
red          1
crip2          1
6cuda6          1
sg          1
MysticWizard          1
Dennis D          1
BilleFly          1
remmoore          1

Gee, I feel so under-represented on that list ... given that my name is forbidden to be mentioned anywhere on the entire forum!!