[Bob Kuczewski]

Hangwind and Jim Rooney agreed with Christian:

Hangwind
Post Sun, Aug 20 2006, 07:56:36 pm

I couldn't have said it better Christian.

Jim Rooney
Quote
Post Sun, Aug 20 2006, 09:11:38 pm

Here here Christain!
It's like dejavu all over again

[Bob Kuczewski]

Leadsled continued his diversion and Tommy humored him:

Leadsled
Post Mon, Aug 21 2006, 05:53:14 am

Christian Williams wrote:
You're just spitballing, S.C. Youve been out of touch a while and you really need to catch up.

You should read the Oz Report files on site insurance, personal liability insurance, the long debate over the USHGA name change, the exhaustive discussions about declining hang gliding numbers, the informative debates about the role of a national organization, the political value of ratings. You need to study the USHPA budget, which is available on the Web Site (sorry, you'll have to join).

Sound like homework?

Does this mean beauties with foreign accents driving beer-laden retrieve vehicles is out of the question?

marc

Tommy Thompson Sr.
Post Mon, Aug 21 2006, 09:58:36 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christian Williams wrote:
You're just spitballing, S.C. Youve been out of touch a while and you really need to catch up.

You should read the Oz Report files on site insurance, personal liability insurance, the long debate over the USHGA name change, the exhaustive discussions about declining hang gliding numbers, the informative debates about the role of a national organization, the political value of ratings. You need to study the USHPA budget, which is available on the Web Site (sorry, you'll have to join).

Sound like homework?

Crap! guess that means no adds in people magazine either

[Bob Kuczewski]

Tommy replied with a more serious post agreeing that there could be a place for a new organization to be more active in member recruitment and member participation:

Tommy Thompson Sr.
Post Tue, Aug 22 2006, 08:33:34 am

S C Wise
I like the idea of a new kind of Hang Gliding Org. and IMO it is needed, just not
for the reason I'm guessing you think(Damn PGers!). USHGA(as it is still printed on my checks)
has it's hands full dealing with training, insurance and FAA issues for both forms of
Free Flight(HG/PG). there are ways to help Hang Gliding other then the above issues.

I'm not sold on the lowering the cost as a reason for a new Org. either, because USHGA has
systems in place for low income pilots that can't aford or don't want the magazine
(just need to be able to fly at USHGA sites).

(IMO) whats needed is an Org. for pilots with the time, desire and money($40 a year)
to help Hang Gliding in new ways that USHGA can't(like Marc's idea, please!).
(IMO) like with an Instructor or Master pilot rating there comes responsiblities, maybe any
new Org. should also, like members must vote on all topics to keep their membership.

PS:I'll support USHGA/USHPA/call it what ever you want, as long as it keeps working on
Hang Gliding issues.
Even if you can give me a picture of Davis in a glider on a box of wheates, I'll still support USHGA.
(IMO)you should also(don't bite the hand that feeds you, or the new Org. that you can start).

It's like dejavu all over again

I feel guilty also(finding new ways and topics to push an agenda), Sorry Jim!.
Tommy

[Bob Kuczewski]

Steve offered a comment about the division in the RC world between powered and unpowered:

Steveseibel
view from the outside
Post Thu, Aug 24 2006, 03:26:36 pm

This may be slightly off topic, I'm not saying that anyone wanting to join a new organization must necessarily believe X or Y about USHGA politics etc but...

I felt I was getting a view of how some of our HG/PG/USHGA/USHPA controversies must look to an outsider, when I picked up an AMA model airplane magazine the other day and this guy had written a letter about how he was tired of having to look at pictures of electric-powered airplanes in his magazine, why can't they have a separate magazine, he felt like someone was trying to convert him over, most of those new electric guys weren't even going to be members of the AMA organization anyway, etc...

Others pointed out that that's where all the new blood was coming into the sport, people appreciate not having to get their hands dirty and smelly etc and being able to fly wherever not just at a few official fields...

Food for thought in there somewhere...

PS those model airplane guys are mostly really old, for whatever that's worth.

Steve

[Bob Kuczewski]

Steve's comment sparked a side discussion about the aging demographic of hang glider pilots:

PS those model airplane guys are mostly really old, for whatever that's worth.Steve

You mean, like, 40?

PS those model airplane guys are mostly really old, for whatever that's worth.Steve

You mean, like, 40?

I mean, the same issue featured a revolving walker so the guy could fly his control-line plane while sitting down and being pulled in circles by the plane and not get dizzy... more power to him, but..

PS those model airplane guys are mostly really old, for whatever that's worth.Steve

You mean, like, 40?

I mean, the same issue featured a revolving walker so the guy could fly his control-line plane while sitting down and being pulled in circles by the plane and not get dizzy... more power to him, but..

A revolving walker? You've got to be joking!
Brian "The Capitalist Snake" McMahon
Look out for the force without form…

A revolving walker? You've got to be joking!

Don't laugh too hard, even older Hang Gliding pilots will find a way to fly
Image
can't an Aero-tow dolly be used as revolving walker, or rider as above?

Tommy

[Bob Kuczewski]

And so ended Scott's 2006 idea for starting an organization that might make USHPA more responsive through competition.

I didn't know Scott at that time (2006), but I would eventually run for Regional Director against David Jebb in 2008. I defeated Jebb in the 2008 election, and I began pushing for a number of reforms including open voting by the USHPA Board, better support for local clubs, and a balanced Soaring Council at Torrey Pines. All of my ideas were strongly rejected by the USHPA Board and they did their best to get rid of me as soon as possible (spring of 2010).

We founded the U.S. Hawks a few months later (August of 2010), and the rest is history.

[Chris McKeon]

NEW HANG-GLIDING ORGANIZATION JOIN? Why should We. Heck We used to have an Organization, USHGA We gave it away to the ParaGliders Pilots. So now they tolerate Us. They let Us remain as part of; "THEIR ORGANIZATION" We should put our energy into reclaiming our own former site; USHGA.

[Bob Kuczewski]

NEW HANG-GLIDING ORGANIZATION JOIN? Why should We.

You already did. The US Hawks is more than a forum. It is an active national hang gliding association. We have ratings. We have an Advisory Board of Directors. We have local chapters. We have members. The only thing we don't have is insurance, but we've been overcoming that by removing the insurance requirements from sites like Dockweiler, Point of the Mountain, and Ed Levin (so far). People can be members of both USHPA and the U.S. Hawks - although USHPA surely doesn't like the U.S. Hawks.

We should put our energy into reclaiming our own former site; USHGA.

I'm not sure if you mean reclaiming the site name "USHGA" or reclaiming the organization itself. I don't think either are likely to happen. The membership imbalance is too great.

The sport of hang gliding needs - and deserves - an organization dedicated to hang gliding. That's why we started the U.S. Hawks on August 13, 2010. Thanks to everyone who has supported that effort at any time in the last 12 years. As human beings, we may disagree on a large number of individual issues, but I am very grateful to everyone who has spoken here over the last 12 years to support the preservation and promotion of hang gliding.

By the way, here's the membership history of the US Hawks Forum starting from August of 2010:

          36 in 2010 (36 total)

                    42 in 2011 (78 total)

                          27 in 2012 (105 total)

                                   37 in 2013 (142 total)

                                           35 in 2014 (177 total)

                                                      45 in 2015 (222 total)

                                                             29 in 2016 (251 total)

                                                                  22 in 2017 (273 total)

                                                                     15 in 2018 (288 total)

                                                                            30 in 2019 (318 total)

                                                                              8 in 2020 (326 total)

                                                                                 13 in 2021 (339 total)

                                                                                  1 in 2022 (340 total)

You'll notice that our growth was pretty steady from 2010 through 2019. But 2020, 2021, and 2022 have been much slower. One possibility is that the COVID19 pandemic has cut down on our personal interactions. I believe we grow most by our members encouraging other members to join.

USHawks_Membership_2010_to_2022.png (29.79 KiB) Viewed 822 times

[Chris McKeon]

It is Disturbing, well it is very disheartening how our Hang Gliding Organization has been taken over, corrupted by those who, Yes We should have Helped them to oe\rganize themselves, and begin; THEIR OWN ORGANAZITION> I am of Course talking about how USHGA wAs stolen by Paragliders. This type of activity leaves a foul taste in My Mouth. This Is why I so enjoy going up to the Sierras. I love launching from Wolf's Peak Launch. Then say Flying over to Nevada. Landing in an open Field located on the edge of Town. When I talk to a Local Land owner. The lady upon hearing My reply to Her Question, Where did You Launch From? I said; "Wolf's Peak-Sonora Pass". Listening to that responding to My saing; Wolf's Peak-Sonora Pass. Well hearing this Lady practically shouted, calling Me calling Me a Liar. "For Sonora Pass is over Fifty Miles away"! You really can't Buy a Moment like that. To arrive at a Launch up in the Sierra Mountains. Set up my Predator, launch and Fly Up, Up, UP and Away. is just such a Pleasant deal. Where when You come across a Person. Coming across a Person when You are up in the sierra Mountains or when I landed in our Neighboring State of Nevada. People really do not have any Idea, any real understanding any Idea who USHPA is, let alone how You were able to Fly in their Eyes anyways a Great distance. If You brought up the word USHPA. The Local might say to You; "What's a USPA"?

Well it seems like I will be Flying Single Surface Gliders WW Condor, North Wing T-Two, for a while during My initial efforts at returning to Free Flight. But You can Bet Your Bottom Dollar that I will Be trying to Push as hard as I am able to.

I am so looking Forward to Flying that Circus Tent sized Condor. I so hope that next Saturday or Sunday I get to Fly once again.
My not Flying for Twelve Years has been a Long Time. Twelve Years OF NOT fLYING has been too Long, way, Way, WAY TOO LONG!

[Chris McKeon]

Does anyone see this "DEAL" like I do? I mean USGA was taken from Us HG Pilots. We were being Benevolent in our allowing Paragliders to Join USHGA. That old saying comes to Mind; "NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED" I Mentioned this thought before; Heck We Hang Glider {Pilots understood what The ParaGlider Pilots needed to do. We really should of helped Paraglider PIlots become organized, and Form Their own Organization. But what transpired was just Wrong!

So now what? I do not have a clue, does anyone else have an idea of what should be done, if anything can be done at this late Date.