The Bob Show

[TadEareckson]

SamKellner - 2011/12/11

I think BobK is very capable and doing a lot of the right stuff to promote our sport of Hang Gliding.

This forum . Fairness . Transparency.

Well, transparency anyway - DEFINITELY transparent.

[TadEareckson]

Warren Narron - 2011/02/09

By a secret consensus vote of one, Davis Straub, ends another discussion on tow bridle safety in the "Oz Report" forum.

But it's OK if Bob does pretty much the same thing here, right?

[Bob Kuczewski]

Warren Narron - 2011/02/09

By a secret consensus vote of one, Davis Straub, ends another discussion on tow bridle safety in the "Oz Report" forum.

But it's OK if Bob does pretty much the same thing here, right?

Hi Tad,

Anyone on this forum is welcome to converse with you here in the Free Speech Zone. Warren has done a lot of posting here himself. But Warren is also considerate enough of others on the main forum that he doesn't steer every topic toward his own personal interests. Warren recognizes that the US Hawks is trying to build a better hang gliding organization. He cooperates with that goal, and we reciprocate by cooperating with his goals. That's how people with slightly different priorities can work together to help both causes.

You, however, have shown (and even stated) an unwillingness to help build the US Hawks. The current experiment is designed to demonstrate that your presence has, in fact, been harmful to building the US Hawks. We will see how it goes.

At this time, I'm thinking that the best way to have you participate is by posting to KiteStrings and having your friends post links to those postings on US Hawks. Unlike the "Jack Show", I don't have a problem with links to external or competing content as long as it is relevant to the sport of hang gliding.

[TadEareckson]

Bill,

I've addressed your hook-in warning gizmo idea at Kite Strings:

http://kitestrings.prophpbb.com/

Apologies in advance.

[Free]

Warren Narron - 2011/02/09

By a secret consensus vote of one, Davis Straub, ends another discussion on tow bridle safety in the "Oz Report" forum.

But it's OK if Bob does pretty much the same thing here, right?

Tad, you are a train wreck and I've been to a few.
Train wrecks are a lot of work.
People get tired.

Your Davis Straub banning was more like being shot in the back by a dirty cop while Bob's action isn't even a banning.
So apples and oranges.

Though I do feel your pain.
Pretty much, not the same.

[TadEareckson]

1. I've been a train wreck for just about all of my life. I didn't notice any special rules for train wrecks when I signed up.

2. How come train wrecks all the sudden get third class citizenship but total SH*THEADS are still as free as they've always been to roam the US Hawks prairies?

3. Nah, Bob's a lot more subtle. First he'll spend a little time and effort framing me and setting me up to make things look legitimate - THEN he'll shoot me while I was "lunging at him with a knife" (which no one can quite remember me owning) during the attempted arrest. Then he'll bring Rooney in here to describe to everyone how he and his colleagues brought aerotowing to its present state of perfection and explain the hitherto undisclosed benefits of bent pin releases and 130 pound Greenspot safety enhancers. And Sam will post a nine square inch welcome so flooded with little clappers and thumbuppers that everyone will need welders' helmets to read it.

[TadEareckson]

Anyone on this forum is welcome to converse with you here in the Free Speech Zone.

And only here - whether THEY like it or not.

Warren has done a lot of posting here himself.

Yeah. So?

See what it says at the top of the page here?

This forum is for discussions that are NOT related to the US Hawks.

Well, my discussions bloody well ARE related to US Hawks. EXTREMELY.

But Warren is also considerate enough of others on the main forum that he doesn't steer every topic toward his own personal interests.

Oh. I DO apologize to everyone for discussing my personal interests - hang gliding issues - on a hang gliding organization forum.

Warren recognizes that the US Hawks is trying to build a better hang gliding organization.

1. Yeah? Better than WHAT?

2. Just WHO *IS* US Hawks? Can you give me a list of names?

He cooperates with that goal...

How?

...and we reciprocate by cooperating with his goals.

1. Who's "WE"?

2. Oh good. I guess we'll be doing a lot more mountaintop removal operations to get at the coal we can burn to get more life giving carbon dioxide into an atmosphere critically starved of it.

That's how people with slightly different priorities can work together to help both causes.

And I guess people with substantially different priorities can go fu** themselves, right?

You, however, have shown (and even stated) an unwillingness to help build the US Hawks.

1. If you can't quote me I didn't say it.

2. Just 'cause somebody doesn't wanna build something the way YOU want it (by allowing anybody with the ability to operate a mouse button equal say on policy) doesn't mean he doesn't want to help build it.

The current experiment is designed to demonstrate that your presence has, in fact, been harmful to building the US Hawks.

Goddam right it is. It's NOT designed to DETERMINE *IF* my presence has, in fact, been harmful to building the US Hawks - which it couldn't possibly determine anyway. It's a fraud you're using to justify the actions you plan on taking so that you can maintain the illusion to the idiots you've recruited and are hoping to that this organization is based on any actual values and principles.

At this time, I'm thinking that the best way to have you participate is by posting to KiteStrings and having your friends post links to those postings on US Hawks.

1. At this time, I'm thinking that the best way to have me participate is by posting to US Hawks under actual rules instead of the whims of a total hypocrite of a dictator.

2. Who are "my friends", Bob? Is that a new US Hawks regulation? You can only participate in US Hawks hang gliding discussions if you have FRIENDS?

3. What is "at this time"? In "this time" "about a month" until you can carefully analyze the all the data from your scientific experiment, prove that - INDEED - it has been demonstrated beyond any doubt that my presence has, in fact, been harmful to building the US Hawks. EXACTLY as you had predicted!!! Who'da thunk!!! Damn, you're good!!!

4. Then you can boot me permanently, get all of your halfwitted bootlickers to consolidate power, and start picking off "my friends" as well.

Unlike the "Jack Show", I don't have a problem with links to external or competing content as long as it is relevant to the sport of hang gliding.

All the way with BOB!!! Twenty more years!!! Less of a scumbag than his old buddy Jack!!!

Free speech for everyone!!! Just not here for Tad and his friends.

I love it when people set themselves up this way. They make it SO EASY and it's SO MUCH FUN!!!

[Free]

1. I've been a train wreck for just about all of my life. I didn't notice any special rules for train wrecks when I signed up

There are special rules to special rules on train wrecks.
You are so good with rules, you should have known this.

Bob's a lot more subtle. First he'll spend a little time and effort framing me and setting me up to make things look legitimate - THEN he'll shoot me while I was "lunging at him with a knife" (which no one can quite remember me owning) during the attempted arrest. Then he'll bring Rooney in here to describe to everyone how he and his colleagues brought aerotowing to its present state of perfection and explain the hitherto undisclosed benefits of bent pin releases and 130 pound Greenspot safety enhancers. And Sam will post a nine square inch welcome so flooded with little clappers and thumbuppers that everyone will need welders' helmets to read it.

That is funny.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Warren recognizes that the US Hawks is trying to build a better hang gliding organization.

1. Yeah? Better than WHAT?

Better than USHPA.

How about if I allow you to post 10 words on the US Hawks forum for every single word that you can post to USHPA's web site? Wouldn't that be better? Ooops. You're already over budget because USHPA doesn't let you post anything to their site. So you're even better off here in the Free Speech Zone than you've ever been at USHPA.

And that brings up an interesting point. If you list the national forums/organizations (from least friendly to most friendly) they're ordered something like this:

• USHPA - Tightly controlled, no open forums for members at all.
• hanggliding.org / OzReport - Controlled by single individuals who ban people in an all-or-nothing manner.
• HGAA - Supposedly controlled by a "Transition Team" but actually controlled by Jack with an all-or-nothing banning structure.
• US Hawks - Currently controlled by one person aspiring to create a Board of Directors with a Free Speech Zone.

So the US Hawks actually has the best provisions among all of them for allowing differing points of view to be expressed. And yet, here you are tearing it down. I invited you here to help build an organization. That means that sometimes you have to be willing to compromise. That's what I tried to do with your hook-in requirements. I tried to find some common and reasonable ground that would satisfy you. But you were not willing to compromise. It was either 100% your way or nothing.

2. Just WHO *IS* US Hawks? Can you give me a list of names?

There's a list of user names in the "Building the US Hawks" forum. But while those are the members, we don't really have a way for them to vote because we haven't built our "Constitution" yet. Our constitution will define who leads the organization, how they're elected, what their goals are, and what their limitations are. We haven't been able to have that discussion because you've thrown an endless stream of monkey wrenches at us. I've had to deal with your profanity, your attacks on other members, your strong weak link theories, your lift and tug theories, and your hopelessly long and repetitive posts. So we have not been able to actually define how the organization should be structured. From your complaining above, you don't seem to want a dictatorship (which I agree with), but in your other posts you've ridiculed the idea of allowing members to vote. So your vision for who will actually run the organization is undecipherable.

He cooperates with that goal...

How?

He doesn't use profanity, attack other members, or attempt to derail every conversation.

...and we reciprocate by cooperating with his goals.

1. Who's "WE"?

We are the members of the US Hawks. But since we have no constitution to vest power with the members, I am doing my best to anticipate their will. In this case, I'm trying to figure out if restricting your posting will cause more of our silent members to step forward and participate. If so, then that will be an indication of their will.

That's how people with slightly different priorities can work together to help both causes.

And I guess people with substantially different priorities can go f*** themselves, right?

I wouldn't put it in those terms, but people who want to see paragliding eclipse hang gliding probably don't belong in this organization. Similarly, people who want to concentrate power and control in the hands of the "chosen ones" as you're suggesting don't belong in this organization either. Tad, I'm beginning to think that you don't belong here as well. You seem to think that you know more than anyone else, and you're willing to force everyone to follow your ideas because you think they're indisputably right. Again, the hook-in discussion was very enlightening.

You, however, have shown (and even stated) an unwillingness to help build the US Hawks.

1. If you can't quote me I didn't say it.

I'm not going to spend the time right now, but I will ask you to read everything you've written and post your own quote that comes closest to supporting my statement. Then we can examine it to see if you're being honest. Thanks in advance.

2. Just 'cause somebody doesn't wanna build something the way YOU want it (by allowing anybody with the ability to operate a mouse button equal say on policy) doesn't mean he doesn't want to help build it.

I want to build an organization where all members contribute and cooperate for the benefit of the sport. You've shown no interest in doing that. You're more focussed on slamming anyone who you feel has slighted you or disrespected you. Those are NOT compatible goals. You're right - that part is what I want. If you don't want that, then please go somewhere else.

The current experiment is designed to demonstrate that your presence has, in fact, been harmful to building the US Hawks.

Goddam right it is. It's NOT designed to DETERMINE *IF* my presence has, in fact, been harmful to building the US Hawks - which it couldn't possibly determine anyway. It's a fraud you're using to justify the actions you plan on taking so that you can maintain the illusion to the idiots you've recruited and are hoping to that this organization is based on any actual values and principles.

No. I really want to build a better organization and I've been told (and I believe) that you're driving away more people than you're attracting. You do that with your endless arguments, profanity, and personal attacks.

At this time, I'm thinking that the best way to have you participate is by posting to KiteStrings and having your friends post links to those postings on US Hawks.

1. At this time, I'm thinking that the best way to have me participate is by posting to US Hawks under actual rules instead of the whims of a total hypocrite of a dictator.

I really don't think you want to participate in building the US Hawks. That's what I believe. Prove me wrong.

2. Who are "my friends", Bob? Is that a new US Hawks regulation? You can only participate in US Hawks hang gliding discussions if you have FRIENDS?

I was your friend. I wanted to see you contribute to building this organization, and I overlooked a lot of your faults for a painfully long time while hoping you would eventually start to contribute. But it was always your way or no way. It's becoming impossible to get anything done in this situation. I should be spending my time tonight writing up a great Pilot Profile on Bill Cummings after visiting him last week. But am I doing that? No. Instead, I'm here answering your whining because you don't like the way I've run the forum. At this point, I'd be happy to see you just go. But even though that's what I'd like to see, I am still giving you a platform where you can blast me. That's more than you've done at KiteStrings where you've openly said that certain people are not welcome.

3. What is "at this time"? In "this time" "about a month" until you can carefully analyze the all the data from your scientific experiment, prove that - INDEED - it has been demonstrated beyond any doubt that my presence has, in fact, been harmful to building the US Hawks. EXACTLY as you had predicted!!! Who'da thunk!!! Damn, you're good!!!

It's about a month. I use "about" because I have to give people some time to recognize that they can post here without being blasted by you. I've been thinking I'd make an announcement and start the clock from the point of that announcement.

4. Then you can boot me permanently, get all of your halfwitted bootlickers to consolidate power, and start picking off "my friends" as well.

If I boot you permanently it will be due to my concerns over the topic we discussed on the phone. This forum should be a safe place for people of varying ages to visit. You have not given me any assurances that's true with you on this forum.

Unlike the "Jack Show", I don't have a problem with links to external or competing content as long as it is relevant to the sport of hang gliding.

All the way with BOB!!! Twenty more years!!! Less of a scumbag than his old buddy Jack!!!

Free speech for everyone!!! Just not here for Tad and his friends.

At this time you do have free speech right here. But my job is a balancing act. My primary goal is to grow a better national hang gliding association. I would like free speech to be a big part of that. But when someone like you becomes toxic to that goal, then I have to figure out a way to balance the conflicting forces. My compromise right now is to limit your posting to this area so that you can still post without driving away (or keeping away) the bulk of our members (or potential members). If you had been more cooperative (as I asked many many times) then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But you refused to cooperate, and here we are.

I love it when people set themselves up this way. They make it SO EASY and it's SO MUCH FUN!!!

This has not been easy or fun. This has been a sad realization for me that some people are so pathological that they cannot interact reasonably with others. That's why so many societies have jails (or death penalties). At some point, they've realized that the costs of interacting with pathological people is too high to be paid. We're reaching that point.

Look Tad, you've got your own Kite Strings Forum. I've got a link to it right on our home page. Why don't you just voluntarily stay over there? You can make occasional posts here with summaries and links to your interesting topics and that will help grow your own organization. Isn't that what you want anyway?

[Free]

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