Davis Straub; Idiot Statist, Endless Wars & Tyranny

[Free]

We have to realize that there are people on the political right and left who make good contributions to the sport of hang gliding. I want them all to feel welcome here.

There is only right and wrong in a police state fascist society.
Only in a dream world we ignore the proof that is in front of our eyes.
This is what is happening if we don't wake up and turn course before its too late.

IMO, the success of a warm and fuzzy USHPA alternative is pretty low considering the hard times ahead.
The economic straits we have been forced into are not happenstance and unrelated to the big brother, police state clamp down that you seem to be choosing to ignore. Its not coincidence that economic and societal breakdown is occurring at this intersection of outrageous, in your face, usurpation of freedom and liberty in the false pretense of security.

Bob, you have both an engineering and psychology background.. can you explain the psychology that allows an engineer to ignore the significant deviation of the laws of physics that occurred on September 11, 2001, (just WTC Building 7, to keep it simple) that prefaces our herd like acceptance of loss of liberty and freedoms we are experiencing?

[Free]

4 Star General Wesley Clark, admits that war policy we have embarked on is based on false premise.

More than a million people have been killed.
Trillions of dollars have been robbed from our economy.

How can you call the one honest man in this presidential election an "isolationist" for wanting to end this maddness?

[SamKellner]

We have to realize that there are people on the political right and left who make good contributions to the sport of hang gliding. I want them all to feel welcome here.

IMO, the success of a warm and fuzzy USHPA alternative is pretty low considering the hard times ahead.

IMO, there is correctness in both of these statements. Depending on the measurement of "success", the US Hawks has already had some positive effect, most obvious in Reg3, on the US HG community. So I surely see that as success.

However. that is not to refute the possibility that continued hard time are on the horizon. As we mentioned on another thread, several U* officials/personel have been sheding their positions. Joe's weaklink example of the leafs separating from the stem comes to mind here.
Either way, hg is the least expensive method of aviation. There is already ,IMO, an increase in hg interest with GA more expensive.
One of the local ranchers here says he is depending on us for early warning, in case of invasion.

Let's work together and make the US Hawks the best.
Also, so the Hawks forum continues to catch on, allowing us the platform to express our HG opinions.

Thanks BobK ,
Sam
Southwest Texas Hang Gliding
US Hawks Chapter 4

[Bob Kuczewski]

Only in a dream world we ignore the proof that is in front of our eyes.
This is what is happening if we don't wake up and turn course before its too late.

Hi Warren,

There are forums for saving hang gliding and forums for saving the world. They're not mutually exclusive of each other. People can post in both.

Bob, you have both an engineering and psychology background.. can you explain the psychology that allows an engineer to ignore the significant deviation of the laws of physics that occurred on September 11, 2001, (just WTC Building 7, to keep it simple) that prefaces our herd like acceptance of loss of liberty and freedoms we are experiencing?

I am also worried about our losses of liberty and freedom. In fact, I've recently been an active participant in keeping the large political parties from taking over local grass-roots movements. But I also believe that the planes that flew into those buildings were the reason they fell. I'm sorry, but that's what I believe. I don't claim to know all the twists that led those planes into those buildings, and that might be an area for speculation. But I firmly believe that flying those planes into those buildings caused their destruction.

By the way, my psychology background is pretty minimal (witness my success at "winning friends and influencing people" at USHPA ), but all of my engineering training tells me that the official story is plausible with regard to how those buildings came down.

I'm sorry if that's not the answer you want, but it's what I honestly believe. Honestly.

[Free]

One of the local ranchers here says he is depending on us for early warning, in case of invasion.

Well that makes us all sleep better knowing that you are keeping a close eye on the southern border while our troops are stationed at some 900 different bases in 130 countries.

[Free]

There are forums for saving hang gliding and forums for saving the world. They're not mutually exclusive of each other. People can post in both.

The world will save itself but hang glider pilots and other people are going to have to wake up and come together in order to save themselves.

I am also worried about our losses of liberty and freedom. In fact, I've recently been an active participant in keeping the large political parties from taking over local grass-roots movements.

Such as the grassroots Teaparty being taken over by the neocon warmongers..
I feel your pain.

But I also believe that the planes that flew into those buildings were the reason they fell.

Two planes flew into buildings. Three buildings fell.
It doesn't take an engineer to find the lapse in your logic.

I'm sorry, but that's what I believe.

And I'm trying to understand how you came to that belief system.

I don't claim to know all the twists that led those planes into those buildings, and that might be an area for speculation. But I firmly believe that flying those planes into those buildings caused their destruction.

Two planes hit and three buildings fell at the speed of gravity. Think about that for a second.
Now, forget all about the planes and the speculation of what led those planes into those two buildings..
I have specifically asked you several times to put your scientific/engineers' thinking cap on your head and focus on the ~speed~ that the one building, (WT7) that was not hit by a plane, came down.

I have asked this, and only this question, several times before and each time your answer wanders all over the place. I'm starting to wonder if you are still employed in some mannor within the military industrial complex.

all of my engineering training tells me that the official story is plausible with regard to how those buildings came down.

The official story counters known laws of physics.
So, where did you happen to get all of that engineer training?

I'm sorry if that's not the answer you want, but it's what I honestly believe. Honestly.

I believe you honestly answered questions I didn't ask.
Honestly.

[Bob Kuczewski]

And I'm trying to understand how you came to that belief system.

It's the simplest explanation that explains the observed phenomena (see "Occam's razor" on Wikipedia).

We know that there were terrorists on those planes.
We know that the planes flew into the twin towers.

You could hypothesize anything beyond that. For example, you could hypothesize that JFK or John Lennon were behind it. You could hypothesize that space aliens or leprechauns were behind it. You could even hypothesize that God or the devil did it. There are an infinite number of more complex hypotheses that are all unprovable - either right or wrong. So Occam's razor says that we should choose the one requiring the fewest assumptions like JFK behind the terrorists, space aliens behind the terrorists, or George Bush behind the terrorists. Of course, the one requiring the fewest assumptions isn't guaranteed to be correct, but when choosing between the infinite possibilities, it's not a bad choice.

So tell me what you think happened.

[Free]

I'm not trying to battle head to head with you Bob. I'm honestly trying to find an understanding of how the obvious holes in the official "conspiracy" theory are swallowed by the American public, leading us to accept a horrible police state tyranny.

What we are now seeing unfold is all based on a series of lies and manipulations superimposed on top of such unbelieveable scientific suppositions.

Huge I-beams can not disintigrate at the speed of gravity.
A bowling ball cannot fall at the speed of gravity if there is something with much more resistance than thin air between it and the ground.

Before we all get hauled off to the detention camps never to be heard from again, I ask that everyone try to open their minds to a bigger picture than what seems to be evident.

Planning a future that means anything depends on people waking up from their denial.
There is no conspiracy theory anymore as to where the hell hole future is headed if we don't get our heads out of ~the clouds~

http://ae911truth.org/

[Free]

And I'm trying to understand how you came to that belief system.

It's the simplest explanation that explains the observed phenomena (see "Occam's razor" on Wikipedia).

We know that there were terrorists on those planes.
We know that the planes flew into the twin towers.

You could hypothesize anything beyond that. For example, you could hypothesize that JFK or John Lennon were behind it. You could hypothesize that space aliens or leprechauns were behind it. You could even hypothesize that God or the devil did it. There are an infinite number of more complex hypotheses that are all unprovable - either right or wrong. So Occam's razor says that we should choose the one requiring the fewest assumptions like JFK behind the terrorists, space aliens behind the terrorists, or George Bush behind the terrorists. Of course, the one requiring the fewest assumptions isn't guaranteed to be correct, but when choosing between the infinite possibilities, it's not a bad choice.

So tell me what you think happened.

There you go again..

Why can't you focus on the scientific impossibility of the ~speed~ of the collapse of the one building that didn't have a plane crash into it that seems to be grabbing your attention like a shiny bauble?

Ignore the planes like I have asked at least three times!
A plane didn't hit Building 7!

SPEED OF COLLAPSE is all that I am asking you to consider.

Why is this so hard for you to acknowledge?

[Bob Kuczewski]

SPEED OF COLLAPSE is all that I am asking you to consider.

Why is this so hard for you to acknowledge?

Everything on the surface of the earth experiences an acceleration of gravity of about 9.8 m/s/s (that's from my memory). Are you saying that the buildings experienced an acceleration greater than that?