The hole in Tx's arm where all the $$ goes

[Bob Kuczewski]

Bill you ask me to predict the future. I am not God. But my bet is that Pack will soon be lost forever for flying. Then all of you ill wishers and nay sayers can dance with joy that yet another flying site is lost...especially the one those A-holes in Austin and San Antonio use. I hope that cures your queasiness.

I think I was the one asking about the future and mentioning my queasiness.

Maybe this would help answer my concern ... Pilgrim, what are the odds that you think Packsaddle will stay open to flying in the next 5, 10, 20, and 50 years?

From a money standpoint, you're looking at the classic rent or buy decision. Renting is a short term solution, but renting can keep you from saving up enough to actually make a purchase in the long term (even if that purchase isn't the "mansion" that you can afford to rent). It doesn't matter if we're talking cars, housing, furniture, or flying sites. That's just the way it is. I think Sam is just pointing out that spending your money renting will harm your ability to make a "purchase" in the long run.

That's not necessarily an attack or criticism on anyone's part. It's just an observation of facts. There's no need to be disgusted.

By the way, can you tell us what you think the landowner's long-term plans are for the site? Will it be sold for residential development or some other use? If it is planned for residential, then maybe you could work to incorporate some kind of flight park. That's what they've done at Point of the Mountain, and the flight park became an asset to the developers because it attracted pilots as buyers. Could that work at Packsaddle?

[Pilgrim]

Hi Bob,
I think I am getting Bob and Bill mixed up. Sorry.
Disgusted was the wrong word. I was in a hurry. I believe frustrated is the word I should have chosen.

To be truthful Bob, I believe the gig is up for Packsaddle. I doubt we can come up with the money the owners want to "tolerate us on their land" this year. We appreciate the fact that we go forward knowing we can count on no help from anyone who does not fly Pack. That leaves it up to less than 50 pilots to save a venerable ole flying site. We know and love Pack. It is our only foot launch flying site. It is sad that more people do not share our love of the site. Don't get me wrong Sam. Rest easy; We ain't asking for your help or money. You have made it perfectly clear that it would not be forthcoming anyway. Just out of curiosity Sam, what percentage of the revenues from the Texas Open came from outsiders? I would estimate close to 100%; much of it even from people from outside the country. You know, I never heard any of them complain about trying to help you make Leakey an internationally known flying site. It is too bad you cannot find that kind of charity in your heart for Packsaddle.

In addition, the road up Pack has become a major issue. The county used to use the communications tower on the hill and used their heavy equipment to maintain the road up to it. (The tower was originally put there in the sixties so Lyndon could communicate with the White House from his Lake house that was just down the road from Pack). The county has pulled out of the deal. The owners are pressing us to take over that cost completely. That without question is a deal buster. It is potentially a huge cost. One that I believe will keep Pack from opening this season and perhaps ever again.

There really is not an option to buy. They are not selling. And if they did, as I have pointed out earlier, the price is astronomical. The aforementioned Risser in conjuncion with the USHPA foundation that deals with assisting site acquisition and many of our best minds and business folks have put together every conceivable idea for ownership/easment transfer from the simplest to the very sophisticated (including the flight park approach). Bottom line is that they have rejected it all. They are simply not interested in selling their land or any easements thereon. Their long term plans, as best we can tell, is to keep the land in the family and ranch it as has been done for generations. It is going to be a real drag not to be able to fly there. Can you say "towing is soon to be the only option for HG in the entire Central Texas area"? And yes, we are not complete myopic fools. Most of us have established relations with one or more of the tow operations that are springing up around here in anticipation of the loss of Pack. The looming inevitability of that loss is very depressing. It has been our flying site for so long, it is hard to picture life without Pack. Just picture life without Dry Canyon, or Torrey, or Marina, or Funsten, or Slide, or Point of the mountain, or Paradox, or Telluride (hmmm), or Ellenville, or Kitty Hawk, or...

Well there, maybe all you Pack haters will be happy now. It looks like you will win and another flying site will go straight to hades. To paraphrase Richard Millhouse Nixon from his "Checkers" speech:

"You won't have 'Pack' to kick around anymore".

And so it goes,

Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

From another Central Texas HG entrepenuer off of the AFFA site:

"Greetings All,

Just a few thoughts from my perspective on the importance of Packsaddle to the flying community. Pack is an extremely valuable launch site to all pilots concerned. It has been brought to my attention that some folks out there think that I'm cheering for the closure of Pack. That could not be further from the truth. If Pack closes, we all lose as a flying community. It certainly does not help me in developing towing operations in the slightest bit, if anything, it makes it more difficult. The skill of being able to confidently foot-launch a glider is a paramount skill to all pilots, both HG and PG. There are foot-launch pilots that choose to remain foot-launch pilots, regardless if towing is available or not. It is just their preference. Just as there are pilots who prefer to tow, and again some pilots that prefer to do both.

It is in the big picture of our region and our sport where we all lose, and lose big, if Pack were to close. One of the aspects that makes our sport challenging and exciting is the ability to fly different venues. Be it towing in Florida, or foot-launching from Alamagordo, NM, or flying one of the California coastal sites. By having more sites open, we as a flying community can grow and expand our numbers. Pack is vitally important to the growth of our sport in Texas, regardless as to what others may postulate. As we teach and mentor new pilots in our region, having a foot-launchable site with wide-open LZ's is a boon. Being able to develop solid foot-launch skills is an absolute necessity for safe flight for other foot-launch sites.

Wishing everyone a wonderful New Year and great start to the 2012 flying season!

- Joel"

Well put Joel.

[DarthVader]

Trike me in I think this will take care of my problem no more Joel hogging toys or kissing land owners butts this is the way to go get a trike

[terryJm]

Happy new year Friends, You are so right, we could have 8-10 sites with in a hundred miles radii, with a little more money! I've looked off pack, up pack, around pack, and haven't figured how to come up with the cash. Looks like a good H2 training hill would be cheaper than that. Hate to see us bickering when co-operation could be more fruitful. later, Terry

[terryJm]

Hay, is that you Alvin? If you think gliders are scary, wait till you strap on an egg beater. Remember, you still have to land with that mix master on your back! GOOD LUCK!! Terry

[Pilgrim]

Hi terryJm:

Are you saying that there are 8-10 foot launch flying sites within a 100 mile radius of Pack? If so, I will respectfully disagree. There are no other foot launch flying sites in that described area.

Why would we want to buy a training hill? There are plenty of those around and most are free to use. What we are talking about are folks that actually want to fly, not take ten second training runs. Who has the money to even buy a training hill? Are you a new found rich benefactor?

As far as the "kumbayah" stuff getting anything done, good luck with that. Maybe we should give Greg Black a call and see what he thinks about investing in training hills and trees and such.

Pilgrim

[Bob Kuczewski]

I believe frustrated is the word I should have chosen.

I can sure understand that. I'm sorry if my comments contribute to that frustration. Honestly.

To be truthful Bob, I believe the gig is up for Packsaddle.

Sometimes it's hard to know when to quit. If there was any promise of saving it for the long term, I'd be much more supportive. Letting go of anything (flying site, girlfriend, first car...) is tough, but the key is recognizing when the end is really the end. If you think there's hope, then fight for it. But if you don't, then it's wise to start considering how you'll move on from there. I think that's the main point behind Sam's thinking.

I'm a foot-launch pilot (at this point), and I really hope you can find a way to save that site. But if you can't, then it's wise to look toward the future.

[terryJm]

So difficult to understand this way; What I ment to say is HAPPY NEW YEAR pilgrim, and when flying at buffalo mtn. in Okla. it was an H2 rated site fore so many years that after looking pack over I thought pack was anH2 rated site as well. You claimed it was a good site for training soaring and general foot launch teck. with the extra large landing field and all. And no to the wealth, again I ment the cash for joing, just to fly what appeats to be a training hill at least compaired to sandia or death vally, or teluride; however, since you mention it I could test fly my new sport 2 135, if I had a 100ft bunny hill handy, I'm at Leakey, so drop me a retun post with directions and I'll meet you at one of the free sites you mentioned in you last post. Like to meet new friends an perhaps we can brainsorm a way to save pack. See yoy soon, Terry

[Pilgrim]

And a Happy New year to you also Terry.

South side Pack is H2. The north side is H3. But like any site, the weather can play a big influence on required skills.

It is amazing how great the flying can be at Pack. This is true even though it is only a 400' high ridge that is only about a half mile wide. I have been in the air there with 15 other pilots on the ridge alone. Just as someone can learn to climb mountains training at Enchanted Rock, we have honed ourselves and many other pilots into mountain pilots using Pack as a training venue. The best part of Pack is convinience. You can go out in the morning. Be at base by noon. And be home in time to pick up the kids. Very cool.

We have several renegade sites around here. Ever fly the beach?

We will know very soon whether the Board of AFFA has managed to negotiate a lease with the owners of Pack. The results will have a huge impact on local flying. If you have any good ideas, the board could use any help they can get.

I may have to move back to New Mexico.

Pilgrim