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Re: Rick Masters, Collapsing Paragliders in LA Times

Postby Free » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:50 pm

bobk wrote: By the way, the framers of the United States Constitution recognized that "tyranny of the majority" is a problem with a majority-rule system.
That's why they crafted a Bill of Rights to ensure that our individual rights cannot be infringed despite the whims of any majority. We have no such protections in USHPA. I hope we'll do better in the US Hawks.


That's why they crafted a "Republic" instead of a "Democracy".
So many people believe we have a Democracy, it's like they are brainwashed or something...
Democracy is mob rule.

U$HPA is fascist corporatism run by one lawyer and a few complicit henchmen.
It is not a democracy. There are no individual rights.
The only rules are to cover up what they've done before.

The rules of the Republic, on the other hand, is the Constitution.
The Bill of Rights, were extra measure to keep everyone honest.

Not too many are honest these days.
Our Republic is teetering on the edge of a cliff and our glide isn't looking so good.

People are in a trance.
Real "individual rights" are being infringed before our very eyes.
Tyranny is looking us in the face and we ignore it.
It scares us.

I find it hard to concentrate on the death of hang gliding, as the death of the Republic ensues.
Tyranny never goes away on it's own.

Evil never sleeps...
it lies awake.. under your BED!
HA! The world is crazy..
The sane are few.

Screw the U$HPA, and the tyranny that runs it.
The whole globe is going down in an engineered implosion.
Sell your glider and prepare for hard times.

Or.. wake the hell up before we lose it all.
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Re: Rick Masters, Collapsing Paragliders in LA Times

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:19 am

Save a life.
Sell your old hang glider to a PG pilot.
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Re: Rick Masters, Collapsing Paragliders in LA Times

Postby Free » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:25 pm

RickMasters wrote:Save a life.
Sell your old hang glider to a PG pilot.


Jim Gaar, has been selling my equipment for years.
I check often to see if the Millenium is still in the barn.
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Re: Rick Masters, Collapsing Paragliders in LA Times

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:15 pm

Free wrote:Democracy is mob rule.

You're absolutely right, and so few people really understand this.

Free wrote:U$HPA is fascist corporatism run by one lawyer and a few complicit henchmen.
It is not a democracy. There are no individual rights.
The only rules are to cover up what they've done before.

USHPA gives us the "illusion" of choosing our Directors, but since USHPA doesn't publish the Director's voting records, we have no way to know what they've actually done. So USHPA elections are essentially a popularity contest.

Free wrote:I find it hard to concentrate on the death of hang gliding, as the death of the Republic ensues.

Doing one doesn't preclude doing the other. After all, if I hadn't created the US Hawks to save hang gliding, I wouldn't have found a place to read your political comments - many of which I agree with.
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Illusion of Democracy

Postby Free » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:47 am

bobk wrote:
Free wrote:Democracy is mob rule.

You're absolutely right, and so few people really understand this.


They have been brainwashed/indoctrinated/educated to believe we have a Democracy and then falsely equate that with freedom. The "dumming down" going on in public 'education' centers has been very successful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto
Besides, the herd mentality that government schooling foments, favors mob rule, anyway.
Alexander Frazer Tytler has written, that a democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority, he said, always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury with the result that democracy always collpases over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship.


Free wrote:U$HPA is fascist corporatism run by one lawyer and a few complicit henchmen.
It is not a democracy. There are no individual rights.
The only rules are to cover up what they've done before.


Bob wrote
USHPA gives us the "illusion" of choosing our Directors, but since USHPA doesn't publish the Director's voting records, we have no way to know what they've actually done. So USHPA elections are essentially a popularity contest.


A popularity contest is democracy but only if the election isn't rigged.
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
http://blackboxvoting.com

Mark Forbes, works/worked for gambling interest, setting/programming slot machines.
Does anyone believe that there has never been voting shennanigans in at U$HPA?
How much does anyone really trust Mark Forbes?

As you say, it's the "illusion" of a Member's organization. Even if all the elections were honest, you still don't know how your Representative voted.

I'll tell you how a majority always votes and that is exactly how the corporate lawyer wants them to vote.
It's the delphi method of "facillitators" splitting up the issues and directing the 'subjects' to the intended concensus.
http://www.learn-usa.com/transformation_process/acf001.htm

Free wrote:I find it hard to concentrate on the death of hang gliding, as the death of the Republic ensues.


Bob wrote
Doing one doesn't preclude doing the other. After all, if I hadn't created the US Hawks to save hang gliding, I wouldn't have found a place to read your political comments - many of which I agree with.


Tell me the things you don't agree with and we can communicate much better.

Hate to keep going back to the burning house paradigm but I'm seeing starting an alternative association a little like painting a recreation room a pleasing color as hooligans are torching every corner of your house.
A swell idea, but how effective?

Hang gliding will probably survive the coming shake down for those that can afford it.
An alternative association will have to compete in that market.
The U$HPA corporation has great political and financial advantage in that scenario.
U$HPA has become a little mini-quasi government of it's own.
They can levy dues and fees from one member to parcel out to another.
They don't answer to anyone, except to those at the top... the 'shadow' government..
ie; the lawyer and a few henchmen..

The deck is stacked heavily against an alternative association that merely mirrors the status quo.
Add that to the implosion of rights, freedom and economy as we hurtle along with insane never ending war increasingly leading us to total global war on anyone that isn't the government with resultant engineered financial collapse.. and a clueless populace.. sorry but I lose my enthusiasm..
Last edited by Free on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Illusion of Democracy

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:37 pm

Free wrote:Tell me the things you don't agree with and we can communicate much better.


Hi Warren,

Hang glider pilots can be split along many lines (liberal/conservative, religious/athiest, Ginger/Maryanne, Steelers/Packers, skiing/snowboarding, paper/plastic ...). Whichever side I take on any of those issues, I'm going to alienate people on the other side. If I push those non-hanggliding viewpoints in this hang gliding forum, it will undermine the purpose of this forum ... which is to unite hang glider pilots to protect and promote the sport of hang gliding. If I back Ron Paul, then I will tend to alienate all the non Ron Paul folks. If I put down Ron Paul, then I'll alienate you and other Ron Paul supporters. Neither of those will help or hurt Ron Paul very much, but both will hurt the cause of protecting and promoting the sport of hang gliding.

So if I want to get into a political discussion, I will go to a political forum. If I want to win people in that political forum to my side, then I might not continually focus on my hang gliding, because that will alienate those who think hang glider pilots are nuts (which is probably the larger group!!).

So in response to your request ("Tell me the things you don't agree with and we can communicate much better."), I'd really rather focus on the things where we agree and can work together than to try to find places where we disagree and will work against each other.

And speaking of where we agree ... imagine if congress didn't publish their voting records!! USHPA's operation without a voting record by our elected Directors is an embarrassment to our sport. Most Boards of Directors are run under some form of Robert's Rules which recommends a means for a minority to request a roll call so that the winning majority will be on the record and accountable to those who elect them. The USHPA leadership has refused to allow any procedure (such as my proposed "Accountability Amendment") which will put their votes on record. I suspect that's a place where we'll agree. :thumbup:
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Re: Illusion of Democracy

Postby Free » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:49 pm

bobk wrote:
Free wrote:Tell me the things you don't agree with and we can communicate much better.


Hi Warren,

Hang glider pilots can be split along many lines (liberal/conservative, religious/athiest, Ginger/Maryanne, Steelers/Packers, skiing/snowboarding, paper/plastic ...). Whichever side I take on any of those issues, I'm going to alienate people on the other side. If I push those non-hanggliding viewpoints in this hang gliding forum, it will undermine the purpose of this forum ... which is to unite hang glider pilots to protect and promote the sport of hang gliding. If I back Ron Paul, then I will tend to alienate all the non Ron Paul folks. If I put down Ron Paul, then I'll alienate you and other Ron Paul supporters. Neither of those will help or hurt Ron Paul very much, but both will hurt the cause of prtoecting and promoting the sport of hang gliding.

So if I want to get into a political discussion, I will go to a political forum. If I want to win people in that political forum to my side, then I might not continually focus on my hang gliding, because that will alienate those who think hang glider pilots are nuts (which is probably the larger group!!).

So in response to your request ("Tell me the things you don't agree with and we can communicate much better."), I'd really rather focus on the things where we agree and can work together than to try to find places where we disagree and will work against each other.



What I'm talking about is bigger than Ron Paul, and it's certainly bigger that Maryanne and Ginger, paper/plastic.
Frankly, that response to what I'm trying to share with you is a little insulting but I 'm very used to that.
Government educated people are programmed to respond that way. I can't be mad at you for that.

A point I'm trying to make is that the rug is being pulled out from under us and we can't agree on the physics.

I admire the work you do for the good reasons expoused but you are ignoring the great big foot coming down on us that you are interpreting as a cumulus cloud with a silver lining.

We might go at things a bit differently but somewhere there is an ah-hah connection that could propel both outlooks to a better ending.
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Re: Illusion of Democracy

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:00 pm

Ooops, it looks like I added a paragraph to my last message while you were typing (since it wasn't in your quote). Please note the last paragraph on my previous post in case you missed it.

Free wrote:I admire the work you do for the good reasons expoused but you are ignoring the big foot coming down that you are interpreting as a cumulus cloud with a silver lining.

I am not ignoring the big foot coming down, but I don't push it in this forum. If you want to discuss politics, please give me a call and I'll be happy to share my views. But this forum is about uniting people to promote and protect the sport of hang gliding. Any other confrontations on this forum only diminish our effectiveness in that cause. I don't mind off-topic discussions in the Free Speech zone, but even there I don't like seeing hang gliding supporters becoming enemies based on who they thought should have won an Oscar in 1995.
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Re: Illusion of Democracy

Postby Free » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:04 pm

based on who they thought should have won an Oscar in 1995.


You did it again.




bobk wrote:Ooops, it looks like I added a paragraph to my last message while you were typing (since it wasn't in your quote). Please note the last paragraph on my previous post in case you missed it.

Free wrote:I admire the work you do for the good reasons expoused but you are ignoring the big foot coming down that you are interpreting as a cumulus cloud with a silver lining.

I am not ignoring the big foot coming down, but I don't push it in this forum. If you want to discuss politics, please give me a call and I'll be happy to share my views. But this forum is about uniting people to promote and protect the sport of hang gliding. Any other confrontations on this forum only diminish our effectiveness in that cause. I don't mind off-topic discussions in the Free Speech zone, but even there I don't like seeing hang gliding supporters becoming enemies based on who they thought should have won an Oscar in 1995.
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Re: Illusion of Democracy

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:04 pm

Free wrote:We might go at things a bit differently but somewhere there is an ah-hah connection that could propel both outlooks to a better ending.

I agree there as well.
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