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Re: Hello US Hawks!!

Postby Birren » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:21 am

bobk wrote:I checked out your site, and you've also got a link to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/rhgpa/info

Is that a club of any sort? If so, we're always happy to welcome hang gliding clubs into the US Hawks family. Thanks to Bill's help, the RGSA is testing the waters here. Please let me know if the RHGPA is interested.

Mostly, thanks for taking the time to answer the call and stop by for a post. Best wishes to you, Peter, and please don't be a stranger.


The RHGPA is (or was) the Reel HG Pilots Assn. It was originally formed as the XCTPA - Cross Country Tow Pilots Assn - in 1985 but was toned down to attract more pilots, hence the tongue-in-cheek "Reel Pilots" moniker. We started static line towing at Bong Park in SE Wisconsin on their 2.6 mile almost-was-a-runway road. From '86 to '96, we hosted the Region 7 Memorial Day Competition which attracted regulars such as Bill Bryden, Rich Sacher, Nelson Howe, the Minnesota guys, a few from Oklahoma, Nebraska, Alabama and Florida, all eager to practice what Donnell Hewett had developed; Don himself came up for the last one in '96 which was cancelled due to weather.

The RHGPA exists today only as a yahoo group, where the occasional flying-related post is submitted, and the website you saw that provides some measure of advice to those interested in foot-launched ground-based towing. But there are quite a few pilots here in the Chicago area who are mostly aerotowing at Enjoy Field south of Kankakee and I still maintain close contact with them, in fact this coming February will be my 29th (?) Annual Parachute Clinic for the locals.
- Peter
http://www.birrendesign.com/linknife.html - Linknife Tow Release
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx1_R8nYDrU - Static Tow Launch and crappy landing
http://www.birrendesign.com/astro.html - Objects in the Heavens - deep-sky fieldbook
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Re: Hello US Hawks!!

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:27 pm

Birren wrote:The RHGPA is (or was) the Reel HG Pilots Assn. It was originally formed as the XCTPA - Cross Country Tow Pilots Assn - in 1985 but was toned down to attract more pilots, hence the tongue-in-cheek "Reel Pilots" moniker. We started static line towing at Bong Park in SE Wisconsin on their 2.6 mile almost-was-a-runway road. From '86 to '96, we hosted the Region 7 Memorial Day Competition which attracted regulars such as Bill Bryden, Rich Sacher, Nelson Howe, the Minnesota guys, a few from Oklahoma, Nebraska, Alabama and Florida, all eager to practice what Donnell Hewett had developed; Don himself came up for the last one in '96 which was cancelled due to weather.


Do you known Bill Cummings? I think he's from Minnesota, but he lives in Las Cruces now. He's been helping the Rio Grande Soaring Association (RGSA) get onto the US Hawks forum (check out their Chapter's subform here).

Birren wrote:The RHGPA exists today only as a yahoo group, where the occasional flying-related post is submitted, and the website you saw that provides some measure of advice to those interested in foot-launched ground-based towing. But there are quite a few pilots here in the Chicago area who are mostly aerotowing at Enjoy Field south of Kankakee and I still maintain close contact with them, in fact this coming February will be my 29th (?) Annual Parachute Clinic for the locals.

Thanks for that information.

I believe the sport of hang gliding is far more fractured than it should be. We have clubs all over the country that have very little connection to one another. That's why the US Hawks is committed to uniting clubs through a common forum. If you check out the Chapter forums, you'll see that they mostly have their own distinctive look and feel. They're also completely controlled by their club's leadership. I work for them when it comes to decisions on their forums. If they want a color changed, I change it. If they want to establish a posting policy, I enforce it.As the forum (and forum software) matures, I anticipate that they will have direct control of their forums.

But while each club's forum is controlled by their leadership, the fact that all forums exist under one umbrella helps bring us together. For example, you can quickly see the latest posts across all forums to keep up to date. You can search across all forums to find information. I think this will help all of us work better together, and it will help us bring resources together to better protect our existing sites and open new ones.

If you'd like to try it out for the "Reel Pilots", I'd be happy to set up a demonstration forum (as I have with other clubs) and you can see how it works. Please let me know!!!

Thanks again for posting and for all your efforts in the sport.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

============================================================

P.S. Here's the message that I posted to the RGSA forum when they were just getting started (you can find it in the "About the RGSA" topic in their forum). I think this explains our philosophy regarding integration of local and national chapters pretty well.

Hello RGSA Members!!

Thanks to Bill, Hadley, and the RGSA leadership for your interest in the US Hawks forum. The US Hawks is an experiment to see if we can use on-line tools (like this forum) to do a better job of connecting our pilots and our chapters and a national association. We'll see how it works. :thumbup:

The forum is divided into national and local sections. The national sections are controlled by the national association (currently that's me until we can form a national Board of Directors). The local sections are controlled by each local Chapter. I want to emphasize this, because it's important. Local Chapters MUST have the final say regarding their forums. They decide themes and color schemes (check out Torrey Hawks and Tooele Hawks for example). They decide posting policies (club members or all US Hawks members). They decide discipline issues like banning. They pretty much decide everything. My only role with regard to Chapter forums is to carry out the will of the Chapter's elected officers. So I work for your Board with regard to your club's forum.

As I said above, the US Hawks is an experiment to see if integrating national and local clubs can benefit our sport. I believe it can, and my goal with the US Hawks is to do what I can to make that happen. I hope the RGSA leadership will give it a try, and I look forward to seeing an active forum for your club.

Best wishes, and fly safe!!
Bob Kuczewski
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Re: Hello US Hawks!!

Postby Birren » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:33 pm

bobk wrote:Do you known Bill Cummings? I think he's from Minnesota...


Not sure. I read here that he's from MN but don't know if he made it to any of our comps. If he was flying at that time, he'd know "Seismic" Sam, Greg Ballentine and a bunch of other guys whose names I've forgotten (but could dig up if it was important).

bobk wrote:If you'd like to try it out for the "Reel Pilots", I'd be happy to set up a demonstration forum (as I have with other clubs) and you can see how it works. Please let me know!!!


Thanks for the invite but it probably wouldn't be worth either of our time (and would piss off the pig :-) meaning the loss of a considerable percentage of the current yahoogroup members, especially those who are computer challenged, if'n ya know what I mean. The RHGPA yahoogroup has been around since 2000 and I also own the world Tow Group (skysailingtowing) and "worldhg" (though that's been dead for some time).

All that said, I agree that the fracturing -- in many different areas -- is what will ultimately bring the sport down farther. If there was any need of proof, just look at the bygone printed newsletter. They were more work but they kept club members more together than email ever can, except that with instant online contact, plans can be made on very short notice.

bobk wrote:Thanks again for posting and for all your efforts in the sport.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Thanks!
- Peter
http://www.birrendesign.com/linknife.html - Linknife Tow Release
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx1_R8nYDrU - Static Tow Launch and crappy landing
http://www.birrendesign.com/astro.html - Objects in the Heavens - deep-sky fieldbook
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Re: Hello US Hawks!!

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:05 pm

Birren wrote:
bobk wrote:Do you known Bill Cummings? I think he's from Minnesota...

Not sure. I read here that he's from MN but don't know if he made it to any of our comps. If he was flying at that time, he'd know "Seismic" Sam, Greg Ballentine and a bunch of other guys whose names I've forgotten (but could dig up if it was important).

I've attached the Pilot Profile that featured Bill for last year's newsletter in case you find anything in common. Thanks Bill! :clap:

Birren wrote:
bobk wrote:If you'd like to try it out for the "Reel Pilots", I'd be happy to set up a demonstration forum (as I have with other clubs) and you can see how it works. Please let me know!!!

Thanks for the invite but it probably wouldn't be worth either of our time

Now that I've put up quite a few forums, it's getting easier and easier on my part. I'd be happy to put it up on a trial basis (like the RGSA) or even as a "hidden" forum (another club is currently testing it that way).

Birren wrote:(and would piss off the pig :-) meaning the loss of a considerable percentage of the current yahoogroup members, especially those who are computer challenged, if'n ya know what I mean. The RHGPA yahoogroup has been around since 2000 and I also own the world Tow Group (skysailingtowing) and "worldhg" (though that's been dead for some time).

I think Bill came to our forum after considerable frustration with recent "improvements" at Yahoo.

But more importantly, it's not and "either or" choice. The RGSA simply added the US Hawks forum as an option for their members. They didn't change a single line on their existing web site (although I'm expecting that they'll be posting a link to the forum at some point). We could similarly add the Reel Pilots without changing anything regarding your existing Yahoo Group. That's pretty painless for you. :)

Birren wrote:All that said, I agree that the fracturing -- in many different areas -- is what will ultimately bring the sport down farther.

The only thing that matters now ... is what we do about it. I love the sport of hang gliding, and that's why I've built the US Hawks. Come join us and let's see what we can accomplish together!!      :thumbup:

========= Bill's December 2012 Pilot Profile =========
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Pilot_Profile_201212BC.pdf
Bill's Pilot Profile from our December 2012 Newsletter
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Welcome Dave S

Postby Bill Cummings » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:27 pm

Bob is out at Torrey flying and will place you through the last hoop this evening. :thumbup: :wave:
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Re: Welcome Dave S

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:49 pm

Done!!

Welcome Dave S!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

By the way, I bought a relatively cheap Canon camera last night and got some video of my flight today at Torrey. Unfortunately, I need to get some drivers before I can read the video files it produces.    :roll:
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Re: Welcome Dave S

Postby DaveSchy » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:44 am

I appreciate the warm welcome, thank you!!
I have been rated H4 since 1979, was a certified instructor 79 to 82 (Olympia and Santa Barbara). I am not a pilot with thousands of hours, as I have a business and a family. But if you ask me who I am, I'll tell you I am a hang glider pilot.

Here in the PNW, weather patterns have changed so much over the last few years that it seems best to discard our "old" models of prediction and just figure that "if you don't go, you won't know". That has been especially true at Dog and Blanchard.

Sites like Blanchard and Tiger are completely overrun by baggers to the point of having serious safety concerns for hangs. Our state Dept of Natural Resources must have someone in senior management who's brother-in-law builds gates for forest roads. We have lost many fantastic sites just to gates and a general disinclination to bandido, as we age. (Yet, in the 80's, DNR had given us a key for almost any gate in the forest, and when CBCC blew that deal all to hell at Mt Si, I left that club)!!

Lots of logging opens up many potential sites, and we really see that after the snow level drops, but gaining legal access is very, very difficult. I remain motivated to locate new sites, but "bandido mode" seems the most likely way to get some air time without worrying that some showboat bagger is going to top land on you and smirk about it. (That was Wade Maxwell, last year).

For many years, I have been involved in access negotiation, with a personal emphasis on NOT INCLUDING HSHG..what the hell A insurance or membership, and have tried to be a resource when strategy is mentioned. I have been successful with this to a limited degree at several local sites. What is troubling is that some people just do not understand that even mentioning insurance gets a land owner's caution lights flashing, and slows or stops what should be an easy hand shake agreement. It seems that folks around here tend to try a one size fits all approach to site negotiation, I can tell you, it does not work. (unless you frequent Wal-Mart).

CBCC, the local USH.. chapter, needs a serious overhaul (although I have not been a CBCC member for close to 20 years..) Just this week the group yahoo list was hijacked by Christian zealots and we discovered that there is no list moderator to silence them (peer pressure and threats worked)!!

The only reason I maintain my USH.... membership is that I have done so every year since I joined in 1976. The magazine is a joke, the "officers" are snotty (that's you MGF), the insurance is a scam and the waiver .... well, my advice is to "electroncally" sign it with "signed under duress", because it still looks illegal and unprofessional, like it was written by a high school student on a balky word processor that changed fonts at will.....

Stories? Oh yeah...
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Re: Welcome Dave S

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:17 pm

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Dave, your comments are right on target - "snotty MGF" included.

We're trying to build a different kind of national hang gliding association here at the US Hawks, and your ideas and views are very very welcomed.

USHPA is in the process of leaving behind both the sport of hang gliding and the spirit of hang gliding. If you know of pilots who want to join an organization on a different track, please encourage them to join us. If you have even a small handful of like-minded pilots, please bring them together to form a local club. As you can tell by our forum, the US Hawks model is based on supporting our local clubs and helping them work together to do what USHPA should have been doing all these years ... save the sport of hang gliding.

Most of all, welcome aboard!!! Please help grow this forum with your own stories, your own advice, and your own opinions. That's what we're all about.

Sincerely ... and thankfully,
Bob Kuczewski

P.S. I took my first hang gliding lessons in Washington State back in the fall of 1978. My first non-ground-skimming flights were from the cliffs above the Cape Kiwanda area later that year. I went back to Cape Kiwanda for one of Antique Glider fly-ins in 2004, but I couldn't find the exact cliff launch that we had used in the 70's. If you know of anyone who was instructing during that era, I'd sure like to hear from them.
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Re: Hello US Hawks!!

Postby eagle » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:06 pm

Hello Us Hawks ~ The Eagle Has Landed Here at Torrey Pine's ~
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Re: Welcome Dave S

Postby SamKellner » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:37 pm

DaveSchy wrote: Iots of logging opens up many potential sites,................ the "officers" are snotty (that's you MGF),
Stories? Oh yeah...



Welcome Dave :clap: :clap: to US Hawks. Good to see others that have formed this opinion, over the years, :srofl: about ushPa and the snotty officers :thumbdown: and to know it's not just my own echo. :clap: :thumbup: Being absent from the sport, then coming back, really gives one a 'before and after' view of what's been going on. :idea:

Really great to have senior instructors also. :thumbup:

Although the troops, that's you and me, are increasing in number, IMO BobK is a one man army in support of our sport, largely but not only at Torrey.

Bob has supported/visited us in Texas several times in the last few years. Most recently his efforts are obvious working with the RGSA. Don't get me wrong, US Hawks is not just a BobK fan club, but I've been around long enough to know when I see a crusader for fairness and justice. With Bob's leadership the US Hawks has already made a difference and is continuing to do so.

Again a big Tx. welcome. :clap: :clap: :wave: :wave:

Sam Kellner
#16016
Basic Instructor (rookie)


PS ...... "Snotty" is being too polite ;)
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