Bob K destroys the torrey hawks and everything HG

[h3anon]

Lets see if the CENSOR known as BobK moves deletes or edits this post as he has already done here.

Im a torrey hawk and a H3. I will remain anonymous because ive seen the bobk pattern unfold. Bob will surely turn on me, and I will become another one of his long list of victims that he will attack endlessly. So I am forced to post anonymously because of BobKs tactics.

BobK has ruined the Torrey Hawks. I came to this new torrey site to catch up on things and what did I see? The worst hang gliding forum on the internet. Nothing but attacks and garbage. I checked the old hawks site and read whats been posted. Then read whats been posted here.

You have completely lost it Bob. I watched what you did at the hgaa site. You blew up when people moved your posts. You cried foul and censorship at every turn if anyone touched a post in any way. You cried foul about posts being moved because it ruins the historical record.

You have done the exact same thing here. Actually, you have done worse. You have directly edited peoples posts. You have moved posts. You have censored the entire site by only allowing new people to post in this forum when you demanded that you could post anywhere in any thread on the hgaa site.

You sir are a huge hypocrite. You want all your rules applied to everyone but yourself. You are also a blatant liar. You claim people removed you from the hgaa. You were voted out Bob, not thrown out by anyone, did you not see the results? Dont bother to post your long list of stupid excuses. You were clearly voted out of the hgaa and the voting record has been posted.

But the worst thing of all was, when you committed voter fraud. Yes, I read your ridiculous excuse as to why its not. Asking someone who has the power to change the vote, to actually change the vote is fraud Bob. Nothing else matters. This is when I lost all respect for you. You are corrupt or delusional. Doesnt matter which.

You were the only ushpa RD to be removed from office. No one at the soaring council wants to talk or deal with you. USHPA has completely shut you out. You have been thrown off the ozreport and the org. This crappy website is 99% bitch posts about how everyone mistreated you, when its you that mistreated everyone and have been thrown out of the online community.

You are the most destructive force in hang gliding. I would like to start a petition to have you removed from the hawks so that we can save this hang gliding club, but I have no way of doing that without you finding out who I am and then I will have to bear the brunt of your attacks. I will be an H4 soon, and will be flying torrey, I just hope the look of disgust on my face doesnt give away who I am when I run into you.

Its time to take a walk and take your crap negative website with you. We need a new hawks forum. Maybe ill talk to Joe about setting one up. I trust he will keep my identity anonymous so I dont have to put up with the childish attacks you will surely throw at me. Better yet, this is my official request to Joe that a Bob removal petition be started. Im sure you will make sure Joe see's this message right? You poison everything you touch and dont know how to work with anyone. I dont understand how anyone would want to associate themselves with you. I wont be reading your 20 page point for point reply. It will just be a bunch of verifiable lies and excuses. Thank the lord almighty I dont have to listen to your crap on the popular hang gliding forums anymore. Im going to go send Straub and Sg a donation.

Oh fu**, I just read the instructions above this post. The moderator will review this post? You really have turned into a control freak communist censor Bob.

[Bob Kuczewski]

For the record, I've sent the following PM reply to h3anon:

Hello H3anon,

Please let me know in which forum you would like to have your post placed. It could fit in Torrey Hawks or Building the US Hawks or your choice.

Thanks,
Bob Kuczewski

H3anon's post does bring up a problem that we may have to address regarding anonymous postings. A real community is made up of real people who know who each other are in real life. So the things we say will stick to us and color our credibility - as they should. I believe that helps moderate our behavior on forums like these. Allowing anonymous posting removes that feedback, and I think it can make the system somewhat unstable. This would, for example, allow someone to spam every topic (as has been done) without any penalty. It also allows the use of "sock puppets" which are fake users signed up by someone who wants to orchestrate their own "cast of characters". I know for a fact that some of the people on hanggliding.org have been "sock puppets" of other users and are not real people at all (even though this is supposed to be against the rules there).

You'll notice that when I post something, everyone knows who I am. I am willing to stand behind what I say, and I'm therefore willing to "take the heat" for my own comments. Allowing anonymous posting is giving someone a free pass to take swipes at others without exposing themselves to any penalties if those swipes turn out to be unjustified. For those reasons, I am considering the following policy (this is off the top of my head, and I welcome feedback):

1. Anonymous users are allowed anywhere on the forum as long as they don't attack anyone else or make unsubstantiated claims.
2. If an anonymous poster begins attacking others or making unsubstantiated claims, then they will be asked to give and confirm their true identity to stand behind what they say.
3. If an anonymous poster is unwilling to give their true identity, then their posts will be treated as spam and may be restricted to the spam forums or removed altogether.

There are lots of people who are willing to be known and who are willing to risk the retaliation of speaking out because it's important to speak out. That's what I did when David Jebb was both my Regional Director and Flight Director at my favorite flying site - Torrey Pines. I had to step forward and risk Jebb's retaliation (which I got when he kicked me out of Torrey for a year). That's called having the courage of one's convictions. I don't know who this H3anon is, but I can't kick him or her out of Torrey. In fact, I can't do anything other than make my own case and let us both be judged by the community on the strengths of our arguments. But that only works when those judgements will matter to us, and that only works when we are known by who we really are.

So there's my challenge to you, h3anon. Please tell us who you are, and then we can explore each of your claims to see what's true and what's not.

I look forward to the debate.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski

[Free]

What a crock of cowardly propaganda!
'h3anon' if this screed was good enough to print then it ought to be good enough to sign your name to it.
Otherwise, it's not even worth the time to read.

I can personally attest that Bob K. does not have a penchant for censorship. Thank you Bob, for being real!
I hate censorship but in the case of anonymous personal attacks like this one from 'h3anon' could be an exception.
If h3anon wants to post under his real name and stand for cross examination then more power to him/her.
Otherwise, we are inclined to think it's just Doug P. or one of his buddies slashing away from the cover of cowardice.

As one of the most censored pilots in the country I would vote to have post like this from 'anonymous h3' stricken from the record. Hear-say is bad enough. Saying things you won't defend is indefensible.

The clock is ticking on you 'h3'. Put up or shut up.

Warren

[Bob Kuczewski]

For future reference, h3anon, here's how real men express their displeasure:

Signatures from the Declaration of Independence

Us_declaration_independence_3_sigs_modified.jpg (35.66 KiB) Viewed 18227 times

Those are the signatures from the Declaration of Independence. Those were men who weren't afraid to say who they were. They faced a king and an army who might jail them or kill them. Yet you're afraid you might be criticized for voicing your opinion? Boo hoo. Warren is correct. Your comments are cowardly and indefensible.

There's a reason that the cornerstone of our justice system is the right to face one's accusers. Unfortunately, the Internet has created a new breed of anonymous cowards who can say anything without having to back it up. That's why I insisted on the real names of people signing up for the HGAA. I wanted real men willing to back what they say. That put Jack in a bind on the HGAA because he couldn't justify what he was doing. So his only recourse was to actually ban people like Scott and myself who pointed out his mistakes. Shameful and cowardly. Jack had such a high opinion of himself, that he assumed no one else could possibly install a copy of phpBB and expose his deeds. Wrong again Jack.

You're not banned here h3anon. So you've already got more freedom of speech as an anonymous "ghost" than Jack ever allowed to real men on the HGAA forum. Say anything you like here in the free speech zone. Jack never provided that platform for anyone he banned. But if you want to post to the rest of this forum, then we should know who you are. That's called accountability, and that leads to truth. That's what the members of this forum deserve, and it's one of the many things that will make the US Hawks a better forum than hanggliding.org or the OzReport.

[Bob Kuczewski]

So what happened to h3anon? It's been about a month now. For someone with a lot to say, he (she?) sure didn't have the guts to stand behind those words.

I think you hit it on the head Warren ...

What a crock of cowardly propaganda!
'h3anon' if this screed was good enough to print then it ought to be good enough to sign your name to it.
Otherwise, it's not even worth the time to read.
:
Saying things you won't defend is indefensible.

Well said!!