[brianscharp]

Nobody wants to prevent or stifle accidents from being reported...

Please define "Nobody" because I can hardly even recall a discussion about an accident that doesn't involve some form of aversion to it let alone reports being made about it.

Nobody really wants accidents being reported and discussed. You can find him in the Free Speech Zone.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Nobody really wants accidents being reported and discussed. You can find him in the Free Speech Zone.

Nobody really wants to discuss ... Tad.

For clarification to newer Hawks members, the user choosing the name "Nobody" has been restricted to the "Free Speech Zone" because he's attacked people without verifying who he is in real life. I've offered to have a phone conversation with him to resolve the matter, but so far he has refused.

This is the kind of vile posting that we've seen from "Nobody" so far (note that the asterisks were added by the forum ... not by "Nobody"):

You've got s*** for brains, Bill. Rot in Hell pigf*****.

There's certainly nothing wrong with people being critical of others, but this level of vile hatred requires the person making the post to stand behind their words with their true - and verifiable - identity.

By the way, the decision on how to deal with someone like "Nobody" (or Tad) is a good candidate topic for the Trial Board. It would be good to see how the US Hawks Board would handle these cases.

[brianscharp]

Nobody really wants accidents being reported and discussed. You can find him in the Free Speech Zone.

Nobody really wants to discuss ... Tad.

That would be synonymous.

[Bob Kuczewski]

That would be synonymous.

By the way, I'll be updating the first post in this topic to show the volunteers interested in participating in the Trial US Hawks Board of Directors. Please let us know if you're interested.

[brianscharp]

No thankyou.

[Bill Cummings]

Here is a suggestion for a mock board of directors discussion. It possibly would assist in fine tuning everyone’s thinking once the matter came up for a real and final decision by an official board of directors.

The good thing about this mock trial is to allow everyone input without officially having to throw their hat into the ring to become an actual candidate to be on the board of directors.

Perhaps we could take each suggestion below and hash out how a real board might discuss and make a decision on setting up a procedure for the Hawks system of nominations and voting.

Here are some sample suggestions from a previous test vote that we did awhile back.

Re: Nomination/Voting Test #2 Favorite Flying Sites

Postby billcummings » Sun May 19, 2013 2:05 pm


Here are some talking points when the time comes when the US Hawks decide what shall be written when we compose anything like: Articles of Incorporation, Standard Operating Procedures, bylaws or rules.

1) How the time frame for nominating and voting windows should be worded.
2) Directions on how to nominate and vote.
3) Is there a need to eliminate duplications in the nominations and voting.
3) Should there be and if so how much time should be allowed between the nominations and voting. Possibly a comment period.
4) Nominations and voting results should be edited into the first post starting the process.
5) Provide for a back up option should there be an Internet interruption during the nominating and voting windows.
---Mitigate the single point of failure risk.

(PS) Would it be possible to have a countdown clock automatically ticking the time left to nominate or vote on any post or thread containing a nomination or vote? Who among us could resist clicking on a post with a ticking count down clock? (this was answered by Joe if I remember correctly.

This is only one suggested topic. Perhaps someone has a better idea on a test discussion that a board would find themselves doing eventually.
http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1280

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hi Bill,

I like your idea about people being able to participate without actually throwing their hat into the ring. That's a really good thought, and I think we should emphasize that point.

It just dawned on me that In deciding what topic to use for a test vote, we're actually working on a topic ... for a test vote!! So why not make our first Board of Directors topic a topic about what topic to pick?

What do you think?

[Bob Kuczewski]

By the way, this is a Condorcet "Voting Machine" applet that I originally wrote back in 2010 for the HGAA. The original version also supported a few other voting methods, but I've slimmed it down for this version.

It's pretty simple. The top window is the list of ballots (one ballot per line) and the bottom is the results. Each "ballot" line in the top window represents the ordered preferences of one voter. The choices are typically letters, but you can use numbers or even words (without embedded spaces). You just list the choices on each line (each "ballot") in the order that they're preferred by each voter. The favorite choice is listed first and the least favorite is listed last. Any choices that are considered equal can be separated by an equals sign (=). When you press the "Run Voting Test" button, it compares every candidate to every other candidate in a series of exhaustive "one on one" runoffs. It then tells you (in the bottom window) if there is any candidate that defeats all other candidates. It also gives you a complete description of how each candidate would do in each pairwise "runoff". The program comes up with a default election (series of votes), but you can change the votes any way you like and then press "Run Voting Test" to see the results. This is the kind of tool we can use for experiments and to show each other examples of things that we like or don't like in a voting system. Please give it a try.

Also, I'm curious who can actually see this application (meaning that your browser supports Java Applets) and who can't. Please let me know either way so I can get a sense of whether we can even use this technology or not. Thanks!!

Voting019_Applet.png (28.53 KiB) Viewed 532 times

-- Examples --

Here are a few examples you can use. Just copy each group of ballots into the top window (deleting everything else first) and push the "Run Voting Test" button to see the results.

This first example is the set of ballots that the program uses when it starts up. Take a look at them and think about which candidate (A, B, C, or D) you think should "win" from these ballots. Then, when you think you have an answer, press the "Run Voting Test" button to see which one would beat all others. You might be surprised.

    C B A D
    A C B D
    B C A D
    A D C B
    D C B A

This next example ("Rock Paper Scissors") shows a set of ballots for which there is no winner.

    rock scissors paper
    paper rock scissors
    scissors paper rock

Here's an example of the actual votes used to ban Scott from the HGAA back in 2010:

    Yes
    Yes
    No
    No
    Yes
    Yes
    No
    No
    Yes
    No
    No

You'll notice that since the choice is either "Yes" or "No", this case degenerates to a simple majority ... as it should. In other words, more voters opposed the ban than approved it. But the crazy Range voting system that Jack used allowed all sorts of "gamesmanship" into the election, and that's why Scott was banned. The moral of the story is that voting systems really do matter!!

Moderator's Note - October 11, 2022: Over time, the "Java" plug-in has fallen out of favor with many web browsers, and the Java applet which appears in this post may not be visible in many modern browsers. For this reason, an image was added which shows what the applet might have looked like in the original post. For those who do have Java installed and enabled, the original applet should still be functional along with the newly added image. Additionally, the original "Voting019.jar" file has been added as an attachment to this post. This attachment can be downloaded and run from the command line with a command similar to "java -jar Voting019.jar" (without the quotes).

 

[Bill Cummings]

Can't load the plugin. Tried Java but can't get the exceptions open to allow. Just too computer dumb

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks Bill.

What operating system and browser are you using (like Windows 7 / Explorer    or    Vista / FireFox ... etc)?

Thanks.