Should USHPA Regional Directors' votes be published?

[SamKellner]

Here's the poll results I started on.org forum.

Should USHPA Regional Directors' votes be individually recorded and easily available for USHPA members to review?
yes 83% [ 49 ]

no 13% [ 8 ]

undecided 3% [ 2 ]

Total Votes : 59

[SamKellner]

When SG deleted one of Ryan's posts that supposedly contained a "BobK attack" quote, Ryan called him out.

Ryan
But I must ask: Did you delete my post SG? (NME must have quoted it before it evaporated

)

Ryan

SG- I am sorry, I didn't think of it like that.
That said- is it an "attack" if its a true statement?

I thought that was good But dodging the ... real... issue...

Then SG says.:

Attack or not, Bob stuff is banned here.

How funny Such insecurity.

[wingspan33]

Jack Axaopoulos (hang gliding dot org's SG) has an odd personality. I think he knows that features of that personality do not "fit" with your everyday decent, fair minded individual. He claims to be heavily into at least one form of martial arts, and there are probably a few too many people attracted to that kind of activity because they suffer from a significant degree of personal insecurity.

Regarding Bob and myself Jack Axaopoulos (hang gliding dot org's SG) is extremely hyper sensitive, which fits closely with an insecure personality.

He knows that he manufactured the conflicts that he used to justify kicking us off (his!) HGAA web site. In doing so, he revealed a side of himself which is close to (if not dead on) maniacal. The indicators include that, while on one side he claimed that he did not want to be seriously involved with the development of the HGAA, he and a couple pals were intimately involved in manipulating the development of the HGAA so that it could be easily controlled by not many more than a couple/few select individuals - of Jack Axaopoulos' choosing. Jack's and JBs screwy voting system was an obvious tool toward that end.

If Jack Axaopoulos (SG) allowed free discussion, on HG.org, of what went on involving his coup of the early HGAA, it has the possibility of revealing his true (less than fair minded) nature. He can't have that (or, face that) so he shuts down any hint of a comment that comes anywhere close the topic. Mention of my or Bob's name on HG dot org is, therefore, verboten. I can picture SG shouting - "Jetzt bis sprechen diejenigen namen ist tödlich!"

That was subtle enough, right?

[Bob Kuczewski]

If Jack Axaopoulos (SG) allowed free discussion, on HG.org, of what went on involving his coup of the early HGAA, it has the possibility of revealing his true (less than fair minded) nature. He can't have that (or, face that) so he shuts down any hint of a comment that comes anywhere close the topic. Mention of my or Bob's name on HG dot org is, therefore, verboten. I can picture SG shouting - "Jetzt bis sprechen diejenigen namen ist tödlich!"

That was subtle enough, right?

Subtle enough for me.     

I think your analysis of Jack is correct. I further think that Jack planned to kill the HGAA from the very beginning because he realized that a national hang gliding association WITH AN INTEGRATED FORUM would be a threat to the dominance of hanggliding.org. That's why I think he created the HGAA web site outside of hanggliding.org. He knew he was going to kill it eventually, and he wanted to keep that bloodbath separate from hanggliding.org.

Of course this is speculation, but it explains what happened better than anything else I've read. Good insights Wingspan!!

[Bob Kuczewski]

 
      !! BREAKING NEWS !!

There's been some email discussion between this year's Director candidates regarding open voting. During that discussion, Bill Bolosky (our current USHPA Secretary) has offered a creative suggestion on how he (as USHPA Secretary) might be able to keep track of the voting of Directors during meetings without too much interference (the primary objection often voiced to open voting). I think this could be a huge breakthrough for the organization and I applaud Bill's initiative in making this offer.

In response to those discussions, I've just sent the following email message to the group which outlines Bill's suggestions (in my own words) and calls for the other candidates to support a bylaws change which would designate the USHPA Secretary as responsible for recording and publishing the Directors' votes. I haven't heard back from Bill or the other candidates yet, but USHPA will be sending out more candidate statements (via email this time), and I'm hoping that some of the candidates will endorse this idea in their own statements.

Here's my message to Bill and the other candidates:

Subject: The "Bolosky Method" for Open Voting
Date:    10/13/2012 08:15:39 AM

Fellow Regional Director Candidates and others,

Bill Bolosky has come up with a practical solution to the open voting problem that I hope we can all endorse. I'll describe the details of Bill's creative solution below, but first I'd like to focus on what we (as Candidates) can do to support Bill's creativity.

In my upcoming email message to the USHPA voters, I will be endorsing this addition to the Bylaws (currently Section 7c) describing the USHPA Secretary's duties:

    "It shall be the Secretary's duty to record and publish
    the individual votes of all Directors during full Board
    meetings using whatever method the Secretary deems
    to be accurate and efficient."

I'd like to ask each of you who support open voting to make a similar endorsement in your own email messages to let your voters know that you will vote to pass this bylaws change if you're elected. Again, I'm not twisting anyone's arms. I'm just letting you know about an opportunity to stand behind open voting for the members. You're welcome to do so or not. Thanks.

The rest of this message is my interpretation of Bill's idea for recording the votes of the Board (Bill, please feel free to correct me if you see anything that differs from your proposal). For now, I'm going to call it the "Bolosky method" out of respect for its creator, but I'll leave it up to Bill to suggest any other name if he's uncomfortable getting that much credit (or blame). : )

The "Bolosky method" recognizes that there are 4 possible "votes" that can be recorded for each Director:

    Yea, Nay, Absent, or Abstain

It also recognizes that the vast majority of USHPA votes are unanimous or nearly unanimous. So all of the votes can be fully captured by counting the (usually small) number of Directors who are Absent, Abstaining, or voting in the minority. The "Bolosky method" handles the "Absent" case by simply keeping track of which Directors are in the room at any time (including cases when a Director steps out for a short time). So once it is known which Directors are in the room, the only "counting" that has to be done is to count the (usually small) number of abstentions and the (usually small - and always a minority) number of dissenting votes (whether "dissenting" is yea or nay). With all of that information accurately recorded, Bill will be able to publish a full list of how each Director voted on each issue (yea, nay, absent, or abstain) without hindering the meetings to any great extent.

I think this is a reasonable solution. Of course, there may be times when a vote is close, and when counting the number of dissenters effectively becomes a "roll call" of some sort. There may also be other "refinements" that a competent Secretary may come up with over time. That's why I suggest that we DO NOT specify any specific method for how to conduct the counting. Instead, I am suggesting that we simply add the language that makes it the Secretary's duty to record and publish the votes using whatever method the Secretary finds is both accurate and efficient. Here's my suggested wording one more time:

    "It shall be the Secretary's duty to record and publish
    the individual votes of all Directors during full Board
    meetings using whatever method the Secretary deems
    to be accurate and efficient."

Thanks for your time in reading this. I hope you can endorse this language (or similar language) in your email statement and follow through with it when you are on the Board.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
Regional Director Candidate - USHPA Region 3

[SamKellner]

Great work, BobK

IMO, this is really !!"Breaking News"!!

So far, CSS and US Hawks forums are ahead of the others with NEWS all assn. members
should be interested in.

[Bob Kuczewski]

So far, CSS and US Hawks forums are ahead of the others with NEWS all assn. members should be interested in.

Thanks Sam!! They're both ahead in news because they don't ban people ... who post news!!!   

By the way, each Region should be getting an email message from USHPA with new Candidate statements. In the past, these statements were sent before members got their ballots in the magazine (they were sent at the end of September or very early in October). But this year Mark Forbes has been dragging his feet on publishing these statements and they still haven't been sent. That's especially odd because this is the first year with electronic voting. I believe that electronic voting will tend to cause people to vote earlier (often when they get the first announcement in early October). So why would statements with actual candidate positions be delayed during an election when timely information is most important?

For the record, here's my own Candidate Email Statement that I sent to Mark Forbes last night:

Hello Fellow Pilots,

My candidacy is all about issues. I am less concerned about who we elect than about electing officials who endorse specific issues. This is an abbreviated list (500 words or less), but you can find the full version at:

http://ushawks.org/USHPA2012

You can also contact me anytime via phone (858-204-7499) or email (bobkuczewski@gmail.com). As your Director, I will work for you and I want to hear from you.

OK, here are my top 6 issues:

1. Open Voting by the USHPA Board - All votes by the USHPA Board should be recorded and available for all USHPA members to review. This is the most important issue because it connects the decision makers (USHPA Directors) with the pilots they're supposed to represent (USHPA Members).

2. National USHPA Pilot's Forum - USHPA should install and maintain a forum on their web site where USHPA Members can communicate with each other and where Regional Directors are expected to participate. The site should have national sections for hang gliding and paragliding as well as dedicated sections for each Region. All USHPA Chapters should be offered their own subforums within the national forum. This national forum will serve to unite Pilots and Chapters across the nation and will also serve to make USHPA more responsive to the will of its Members.

3. Fair Processes for All Pilots - Disciplinary actions taken by USHPA against pilots must be fair. There have been too many cases where certain pilots and/or instructors have been singled out for disciplinary actions while others have been given a "pass" for similar or worse offenses. All disciplinary actions by USHPA against its Members must be administered fairly and openly to reduce these kinds of abuses.

4. Hang Gliding and Paragliding Committees - USHPA already has special committees for all kinds of subspecialties within our sports (Towing, Tandem, Competition, ...). USHPA should create new committees for the specialties of Hang Gliding and Paragliding. The Chairmen of those two committees should be seen as the national representatives and advocates for those two sports.

5. Open Executive Committee Meetings - The USHPA Board only meets twice a year. According to organizational experts (hired by USHPA), this is far too long between Board meetings, and it gives too much power to the 4-person Executive Committee which runs USHPA between Board meetings (they hold monthly teleconference meetings). I would work ensure that ALL Directors are allowed (and encouraged) to attend the monthly Executive Committee teleconferences.

6. Open Recording of Board Meetings - The USHPA Board meets twice a year to discuss and vote on the operation of the organization. In the past, there had been no restriction on the recording or videotaping of these meetings. But in recent years, USHPA has passed rules severely restricting the ability of members to document these meetings by recording them. I would work to reverse these changes so that any USHPA member could document these Board meetings for their own reference.

[SamKellner]

On OZforum Davis says:

The votes of the whole BOD are almost irrelevant as basically they just rubber stamp the work of the committees. It is the discussion in the committees that is of interest. By the time there is a vote in committees they are almost beside the point.

IMO, this is an attempt by Davis to lessen the importance of open recorded voting by RDs.

However, it's reasonably true. But maybe it shouldn't be. And maybe it wouldn't be if the RDs know that their votes will be recorded. Perhapps it will erode some of the pressure coming from, "wherever" to rubberstamp.

A lot of committee ideas that have been acted upon surely don't represent HG.

HG committees and PG committees Isn't that on Bob's list?

BobK for RD3

[Bob Kuczewski]

Sam you're right on target with all of your points...

IMO, this is an attempt by Davis to lessen the importance of open recorded voting by RDs.

Yes Sir!!   

However, it's reasonably true. But maybe it shouldn't be.

Right on both counts there again!!   

And maybe it wouldn't be if the RDs know that their votes will be recorded. Perhaps it will erode some of the pressure coming from, "wherever" to rubberstamp.

That's the heart of the problem. People are just naturally more careful when they know someone is watching. Bullseye again Sam!!   

HG committees and PG committees Isn't that on Bob's list?

Sam, I wish every member of USHPA (and every voter in the United States!!) paid as much attention to what's going on as you do!!!   

[Free]