[Bob Kuczewski]

Many folks may not remember the peak days of hanggliding.org. Back then, the conversations were almost real time. A post would go up, and it would get nearly instantaneous responses. For example, here are the posting times to a recently revived topic that was started back on May 11, 2008.

02:51am
03:15am
08:20am
08:37am
09:02am
09:46am
10:08am
10:16am
11:05am
11:46am
11:56am
12:10pm
12:28pm
12:31pm
12:36pm
13:01pm (and a few seconds)
13:01pm (and a few more seconds)
13:11pm
13:12pm
13:13pm
13:58pm
14:37pm

Those post times were from JUST THE FIRST DAY   of   JUST THAT ONE TOPIC! There were usually many active topics ... all getting a similar level of response. And the posts were from many different people. In that example, the posts on that one day in that one topic were from 21 different pilots ( AP, gerg, Windlord, gnelson, Radwhacker, Spark, EWDesire, wilburleft, NMERider, MysticWizard, Rick M, Tom Benton, RMMc, noman, tokyoDirk, tom_nichols, Redbeard, day dreamer, TomGalvin, designbydave, and hgflyer ). And that doesn't even include all the posts that may have been deleted by Jack (as all of mine have been).

So what happened? How did that site go from a thriving community to the virtual ghost town that it is today?

There are surely a number of reasons. The sport of hang gliding is slowly shrinking, and there are also many more on-line communications options today. But I also believe that the continued abuses of free speech by Jack Axaopoulos have been a major contributor to the decline of participation on that site. I further believe that the resulting fragmentation has further reduced participation in the sport of hang gliding and had a snowball effect in further reducing site participation. And, of course, USHPA (not USHGA) has always seen paragliding as the "growth industry" in their business model. So the downward spiral continues.

For reference, I've included the currently undeleted posts (remaining from the May 11th, 2008 topic used in this study) below. I say "currently undeleted" because Jack Axaopoulos has a long history of deleting both his "members" and all of their posts when he gets mad at them. Jack may also alter and/or delete his own posts as he sees fit. I wasn't looking for that when I started this post, but I have since noticed that the "tokyoDirk" post includes a quote from "sg" (Jack Axaopoulos). But the actual post by Jack is now gone. Maybe Jack rewrote his own history? I know I've seen other examples where people have quoted posts that have since disappeared. It's 1984 all over again on hanggliding.org.

stack_11_0251.png (110.72 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_0315.png (21.77 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_0820.png (30.44 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_0837.png (32.65 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_0902.png (23.54 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_0946.png (29.46 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1008.png (70.03 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1016.png (18.74 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1105.png (21.22 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1146.png (28.28 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1156.png (26.76 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1210.png (143.02 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1228.png (25.54 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1231.png (18.17 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1236.png (30.95 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1301a.png (21.34 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1301b.png (30.51 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1311.png (33.64 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1312.png (34.03 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1313.png (28.22 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1358.png (17.57 KiB) Viewed 901 times

stack_11_1437.png (18.53 KiB) Viewed 901 times

[Craig Muhonen]

This video below, and many others, are why I believe,
"King Jack" has manipulated hanggliding.org (small h) to his so called advantage.

He is afraid.

click on link to watch on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZyQt2elI7c


"This is Hang Gliding at it's most extreme, these Aerobatics have taken place, under the guidance of the Historic Telluride Air Force, in the skies over my Town".

Every year, Every Flight, Every Twist & Turn,
have been nothing short of Spectacular.
Spins, Climb Overs, and the Incredible Loop are all part of the game.
===============================================================================================================
TAF put on "Air Shows" with 100% support of the Town and all it's tourists.
Flying in the San Juan's was a way of life for the locals and friends alike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59pWP5XhoWs


Rest in Piece, Craig Pirazzi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqIZO6j1pg8

==============================================================================================================
That is until the "UshpaJacks" invaded Gold Hill in the late 80's, hogged the mountain for 33 Years, then put their, tails between their legs and quit, leaving this on their web site;

The insurance company effectively told TAF, that due to the incredibly high death rate around the world in paragliding, their rates were going up, to which TAF and USHPA, responded "we aint' paying"
.......................................................................................................................................................
"DUE TO THE EXPIRATION OF THE INSURANCE POLICY INITIATING FOOT-LAUNCHED FLIGHTS ORIGINATING FROM WITHIN THE TELLURIDE SKI RESORT BOUNDARY IS FORBIDDEN AND ILLEGAL. The Telluride Air Force, a nonprofit 501 (c)(3) organization does not condone, encourage, or permit, any flight initiating from the Telluride Ski area boundary and is further devoid of any responsibility involving such activity. We wish you high flights with happy landings from elsewhere".
..........................................................................................................................................................
They set up a go fund me page thinking they could gain support, but to date they have raised a meager few thousand. Ha..
=================================================================================================================
Hang Gliders had not been seen over our town for many many years anyway, so good riddance, to these wanta-bees.

[Chris McKeon]

I do not understand why You Bob seem to be in such Conflict with our sport, and some of our participants. You seem so quick to pass judgement, it seems that just about everything that you say is negative. If I were Jack, and by the way I am not. if I ran into You I would Beat Your a**. As to Hang Gliding in General we can count on You to point out something You feel is wrong with the Sport. Why don't you try concentrating on some Positive things regarding Flying?

Heck I could be Negative Myself. For Twelve Years ago I had an Near Death Life ending crash. But the way I saw it, and i still do see it. After two decades of Flying. My number darn near came up. But to the dismay of the Doctors Who first Worked on Me, I survived. I use My Guitar as a Tool so that I can improve how well My Fingers move. I am in the process of composing My very First song. "JOHN PLEASE IRAN MY PREDATOR". Get this four Years after when I pounded March twenty eighth two thousand Ten. Back then i could not form a Chord with my Left Hand.

What i am trying to convey to You is; You Flt long enough. It really does not matter how good a Pilot You are. But Your number might come up. Then You must repair Yourself. And continue Flying.

Ok here is a light hearted comment from Me to everyone Ginger, Mary Ann Really? There is no choice that needs to be Made. Mary Ann just positively was Smoking Hot!

As a Han glider I feel, No make that I know that My Predator 158 is the o[timum Hang glider. What a design! Ican not wait to Fly irt. You Can't argue with Success.

[Bob Kuczewski]

I do not understand why You Bob seem to be in such Conflict with our sport, and some of our participants.

Many people resent truths that conflict with what they want to believe. Let me know if you'd like some examples.

[Craig Muhonen]

I post this here, instead of on Free Speech or Hawks & Larks, for it is "Music To My Ears".
I found myself in sort of a dream state listening to the very melodic cadence of this voice,
and watching at the same time, a truly powerful, choreographed video, of the Words.
With my eyes closed, I imagined that, "The Hang Gliders" of this world, and US HAWKS in particular, had finally found their true voice, and with with regard to standing up,
looking "Jack" and his Cohort, square in the eyes, broadcasting, "How Are You" Going To Act?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S5WP4GGliA

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks Craig.

Jordan Peterson has the rare courage to speak out against the tyrants who control social media. Whether it's Jack Dorsey or Jack Axaopoulos the damage is the same. These two quotes stood out to me:

"Objective thoughts tend to be pesky things and they are not so easily dispensed with."

"The actions of your company are, in the main, making things in the world much worse than they need to be."

Those quotes are a perfect fit for this topic. Thanks for posting.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S5WP4GGliA

[Craig Muhonen]

Also note that Jordan is wearing his, "shooting" jacket, and on the table to his right, a couple of magnifying glasses for to do his, "deep dives".
I might be naive, but I think it's time, that the Hang Glider minority wing of USHPA ban closely together and form their own 501 (3) (c) "non-profit" corp. and make a new proposal to Telluride and other ski areas to bring back the "Air Shows" which excited so many in the past.
Hang Glider Aerobatics is a professional trade performed by a handful of pilots, using American made flex wing "air foils", and completely sanctioned, where as paragliders willingly use fabric, foreign made, "sometimes foils", to their form of "aerobatics", which could in many cases be called,
an illegal exhibition of down right danger.
This "banning" of foot launched flying at ski areas, and objectively many other flying sites, (which even the "USHPAJACKS" could not stop, as hard as they tried) has created a vacuum which could be filled by a new breed of "professional pilots" who completely separate themselves from the money making businesses of tandem, especially paragliding pilots.

Professional Hang Glider Instructors are for the most part, actually training new pilots as they fly tandem with them,
so let the "paraglider airlines" have their own "insurance", and why not, they are basically taking, unaware paying passengers for "joy rides".
Do they really know what that waiver they're signing is,
and what rights they are giving up to these, Cash Cows?, just so they can take a selfie.
=======================================================================================================================================



C:+o)

[Bob Kuczewski]

I might be naive, but I think it's time, that the Hang Glider minority wing of USHPA ban closely together and form their own 501 (3) (c) "non-profit" corp. and make a new proposal to Telluride and other ski areas to bring back the "Air Shows" which excited so many in the past.

I generally agree, but how does an idea like that get some traction today?

And that brings me back to the theme of this topic: the Great Decline of hanggliding.org. As I noted in my opening post, there was a thriving community of hang gliding pilots communicating via hanggliding.org back in 2008. The 22 posts by 21 different pilots in one topic on one day shows the level of active participation at that time.

But in 2010, Jack began a campaign of banning pilots and suppressing alternative associations. That campaign has resulted in a long slow decline in participation on his own web site and I believe it has fragmented the remaining hang gliding community ... resulting in further decline.

Chris doesn't know all that history because he was dealing with his own problems at that time. But many of us watched Jack destroy the Hang Gliding Association of America (HGAA) which had been entrusted to his care.

Over time, Jack banned everyone with the courage and integrity to continually protest his abuses. So what's left today are those willing to grovel at Jack's feet in fear of speaking up and getting banned. Those are not the people with the backbone to start a new hang gliding association. They might eventually be good supportive members of a new association, but they won't be the ones to actually start it.

As for the Telluride club, they are more than welcome to become a U.S. Hawks chapter. We provide a communication platform unlike anything provided by either USHPA or hanggliding.org. Just have them contact us any time.  

[Bill Cummings]

Joe F. Looked up for me the last time I visited the Jack = SG website. I didn’t want to log in there to find out when it was because that would update my last visit. Joe posted the date which NOW would be about eleven years ago.
It was back then that I realized that Jack was banning, erasing and changing posts so I left for the HAWKS website after I vetted Bob Kuczewski.

[spydermike]

Interesting point...

"I do not understand why You Bob seem to be in such Conflict with our sport, and some of our participants. You seem so quick to pass judgement, it seems that just about everything that you say is negative. If I were Jack, and by the way I am not. if I ran into You I would Beat Your a**. As to Hang Gliding in General we can count on You to point out something You feel is wrong with the Sport. Why don't you try concentrating on some Positive things regarding Flying?"

There does seem to be a negative slant here which can come across as uninviting (AMHIK). Not sure "tear the other down to try to boost this one up" approach is a solid long term one. I think the "build the better one" might work though, but who is to say. Hanggliding may have run it's course, for now.