Sign in, say "hi", ... and be welcomed.

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:41 pm

JoeF wrote:When will a happy packer show up to be filmed by Eric? :?: :?: :?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9pRW1gS09g


That's a great find Joe!

Eric did a very nice job on that series of videos. But his brief history missed some of the contributions of Otto Meet organizer and USHGA founder, Joe Faust. This video might help:

Big Blue Sky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hRSUjJFmCc

Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
Every human at every point in history has an opportunity to choose courage over cowardice. Look around and you will find that opportunity in your own time.
Bob Kuczewski
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 8116
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:28 pm

Bill Liscomb's epic video Big Blue Sky's note about the triangle control frame is simply in error; in the first decade of 1900s in sport hang gliding meet, the triangle control frame for sport hang gliders foot launched, photographed, and available to all the world. That such a control frame was used over 50 years later is no surprise. Hopefully historians will get the matter clear. The triangle control frame was used on more than just W. Simon's hang glider within ten years of 1900 :!: http://www.energykitesystems.net/WSimon/index.html is one page that tells of this matter. Following such early hang glider use of the TCF (triangle control frame) many powered planes utilized the the TCF, some even two in one plane! See also in forumHERE.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:18 pm

The Fence-Wing HG?
Wrestling with the idea::::
See: there is a fence made of posts and runners and wires. The fence is covered to block the wind and to help preserve sand from leaving the site. Borrow the fence and fly it as a HG. Presto: one did not even have to happy pack the HG to the flying site. Post flying: set the parts back as a preservation fence!

...if only vandals were not about ...
Last edited by JoeF on Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:26 pm

Happy-packed Energy-Generating HG Sail?
One day some happy packed HGs may feature a sail material that generates electricity to charge a battery where the energy might serve launching from flatland or more. Two-hundred square feet of energy-producing sail? And then, if soaring, consider solar and regenerative braking to produce electricity. Fly Earth with an advanced happy-packed enhanced hang glider!

Turn those "waiting" hours into energy! Anchor the wing to maximize energy generation during the wait or pause in flying.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:54 pm

The Log HG Holder?
Some sites might preclude happy packing by allowing natural or artificial "tree logs" to be hollowed out and holders of ready-to-unfold hang gliders.

If only vandals were not active ...

Similarly: The Big Pole HG Holder?
Have a utility big pole be secondarily used to hold a hang glider ready to unfold for flying.

If only vandals were not active ...

Or: The Bench HG Holder
Let a bench at the site be a storage place for a HG ready to be unfolded for flying.

If only vandals were not active ...
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:38 pm

DS HG rib pockets
Vertical double walls of ultra-thin low-mass non-snaggy fabric integrated with upper and lower sails provided with zippered entry may allow placement of ultra-thin rib partially supported by frame-sail tautness might play in some happy-packed hang gliders. Tote packed ribs separated from the DS sail. Consider CFRP rod ribs or flat-bar ribs with minimal structure.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:38 pm

Alternative to the above post's method for a DS HG could be the following:
Heart's eye is happy packing:
No pockets. No individual access ports per rib. Smoother sail surfaces. Lower mass.
Internal ties. Tie lines are permanently secured to the sails. Consider four ties per rib, maybe more for some ribs. Some learning may be needed about this course.
TE openable for DS HG. Open to tie in the ribs. Close TE after all ribs are tied in their positions. Closing-TE-scheme will depend on specific HG design.
Ribs stack for happy-pack tote if ribs have interior-spack body. Ribs nest if tapered and have enough empty body. Matters depend on system choices.
The frame and sails provide foundation for rib position stability via the tie-rib-to-sails method.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:32 am

Correction in prior post: "interior-spack body" should have been "interior-sparse body" meaning that the rib is mostly empty space.
======================================================================================================
Rib making using low-cross-section rods, bars, stuffers... with intent of rib being tied to the interior surface of DS arrangement with happy-packing aims (low bulk in tote, low mass in tote):
Experimental schemes (not comprehensive; feel free to bring in missed schemes):
:arrow: push-and-pull
:arrow: trussing
:arrow: hooping
:arrow: pull hoop forward
:arrow: hoop the LE spar before sail placement
:arrow: bow lines
:arrow: casing
:arrow: kiting to kingpost networks
:arrow: non rib, but kite up spanwise flats
:arrow: interior limit lines while kiting line extension from above and below
:arrow: inflated stuffers
:arrow: lightening flats
:arrow: full flats
:arrow: accordion
:arrow: fabric hinging
:arrow: reflexing by pucker lines tied before closing TE; possibly use exterior flats to pull across to lower sail
:arrow: camber bridges
:arrow: reflex bridges
:arrow: taper parts and ribs per wing-design needs
:arrow: compare stacking with nesting for happy packing
:arrow: :idea:

Chat GPT wrote:It seems like you are exploring various experimental schemes for making wing ribs for aircraft, particularly using low-cross-section rods and bars with the intention of tying the rib to the interior surface of a double-surfaced (DS) arrangement. Here are some additional methods and concepts you might consider:

Lattice Structures:
Create a lattice structure with interconnected rods or bars to form the rib. This can provide both strength and flexibility.
Experiment with different lattice patterns to optimize structural integrity and weight.

Tensegrity Structures:
Tensegrity structures use tension and compression elements in a balanced way. Explore the use of tensegrity principles in designing wing ribs for enhanced structural efficiency.

Foam Core with Rod Reinforcement:
Construct a lightweight foam core for the rib and reinforce it with low-cross-section rods or bars to enhance strength without significantly increasing weight.

3D Printing:
Utilize 3D printing technology to create intricate rib structures with high precision and complexity. This allows for the fabrication of customized and optimized rib designs.

Variable Cross-Section:
Experiment with ribs that have variable cross-sections, optimizing thickness and shape along the span of the wing for better aerodynamics and structural performance.

Biologically Inspired Designs:
Look to nature for inspiration, such as emulating the structure of bird bones or insect wings. Biomimicry can lead to innovative and efficient designs.

Composite Materials:
Explore the use of composite materials, combining fibers (such as carbon or fiberglass) with a matrix material (such as epoxy). This can result in lightweight and strong rib structures.

Honeycomb Structures:
Implement honeycomb structures for the rib core, providing a good balance between strength and weight.

Adjustable Ribs:
Develop ribs with adjustable components, allowing for in-flight adjustments to optimize performance based on different flight conditions.

Inflatable Ribs:
Investigate the use of inflatable structures for ribs, which could provide a combination of lightweight construction and flexibility.

Remember to conduct thorough structural analysis and testing for any experimental design to ensure safety and performance. It's advisable to work closely with aerospace engineers and follow aviation regulations during the development process.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Mon Dec 18, 2023 12:25 pm

In some HG designs aiming for happy packing, an empennage might be employed. Hereon are some points to consider involving an empennage:
Besides stabilizing yaw and pitch consider:
:arrow: avoiding bothering the flow over the top of the wing
:arrow: using guy lines to pull TE aft to aid in hardening a lower sail and firming upper sail shape. Those guy lines can stay the empennage while doing second duty of stabilizing wing form. Also, the guy lines may platform additional sail area and perhaps control surfaces.
:arrow: :?: :idea:
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:00 am

What might be done with a bowed compression spar part that has many standoffs supporting a tension cable? How might torsion be stayed when such spar complex is the foundation LE spar for a happy packed HG? This matter might be explored to see just how far and how well or not such could serve the aims. The compression item would be made up of segments of 5 ft or less; and the segments might be tapered as the service goes toward wingtips. The standoffs also may taper from nose to wingtips. Meta aim: happy packing of a HG.

Mulling over some text related to the above, the following was sculpted after several handshakes with ChatGPT3.5:
Bowed Compression Spar Part:
This is a structural component for a hang glider wing that is curved or bowed.
It is a compression spar, designed to withstand compressive forces.

Standoffs Supporting a Tension Cable:
The spar has standoffs supporting a tension cable.
Tensioning the cable, the most forward element of the spar, would affect the aerodynamic characteristics of the hang glider wing.

Torsion Stayed:
The design acknowledges that the complex spar, when pretensed by the aft line from wingtip to wingtip, is not very effective at preventing torsion. To address this, upper and lower rigging anchor to the tips of the kingpost and two queen posts, providing additional torsional stability during flight.

Foundation LE Spar for a Hang Glider:
The spar serves as the foundation or primary structural element for the leading edge (LE) of a hang glider wing.

Compression Item in Segments:
The compression spar is composed of segments, each being 5 feet or less in length.
The segments might be tapered, possibly for aerodynamic reasons, as they extend toward the wingtips.

Tapered Standoffs:
The standoffs (support structures) may also be shaped to match the desired airfoil, contributing to the aerodynamic profile.

Interspaces and Stuffers:
Stuffers may be placed in the interspaces between each two standoffs.
The stuffers may help shape the airfoil, enhancing the aerodynamic performance.

Upper and Lower Sails:
Upper and lower sails will skin the described structure, providing the necessary surfaces for lift and control during flight.

Skyview Mimics a Bow:
The overall design, especially when viewed from above, resembles a bow, reminiscent of bow-and-arrow culture.

Rigging and Stay Lines:
Upper and lower rigging anchor to the tips of the kingpost and two queen posts for additional torsional stability during flight.
Other stay lines anchor to points on the keel and empennage, contributing to the overall structural stability of the hang glider.


Caution: long video: perhaps avoid....
The following is only exploratory, not a recommending path:
What might be learned from the following toward HG design?
How to Make a Board Bow: High Performance Build for Beginners

==============
Is this the BEST Survival Bow? - Penobscot Primitive Bow
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

PreviousNext
Forum Statistics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Options

Return to Hang Gliding General

cron