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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue May 24, 2022 10:27 pm

Chris McKeon wrote:I do not know if you are setting up a system so that You can short pack Your Glider after having landed out on an XC flight? For it would be so cool to be able to pack your Glider to a More manageable length. Like when A pilot has landed of about five or ten mikes from a road. I for one have at times been dreadfully low during an X-C flight far from a road. But I would shift into that YOu Must Get Up, Get Up or Else.


Yes, Chris! Such challenge would be a progressive step following the early steps.
Step One of the movement: have a handy HG pack that is pleasant and safe for the public that rides city and intercity buses and does conservative flights at Dockweiler safely and reliably.
Step Two: get similar pack, but have a safe and reliable HG wing for firm soaring at Dockweiler site.
Step Three: get a similar HG pack for conservative high altitude flight.
Step Four: get a similar HG pack for open XC hang gliding; this is the step that you seem to suggest quoted above.

Step One wings need not have the safety and reliability for the conditions that would be met in a Step Four HG.


... over 400 test flights before the prize was won.
How many versions of HGs and test flights will be made before Step One of a " a handy HG pack that is pleasant and safe for the public that rides city and intercity buses and does conservative flights at Dockweiler safely and reliably." Note the subjective items: pack that is "pleasant" and "safe for the public that rides city and intercity buses". Too heavy? Too bulky? Too scary? Too pointy? Too snaggy? Unreliable in shape in pack? Pack shape uncontrollable? Too expensive? Too smelly? Too strange or odd? Too suspect? Too threatening? "too" == "unpleasant"
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Chris McKeon » Wed May 25, 2022 9:10 am

Watching that Flight gave Ne Chills. What a flight! Good on You.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Chris McKeon » Wed May 25, 2022 10:11 am

I always, even though I may have been traversing the Country below me. I would not make My X-C Route decisions based upon the possibility that i might have sunk out and had to land. There fore leaving Me on the ground. Ending my Day of Flying with Me on the Ground Miles away from a road. I avoided the very real possible scenario of My being grounded thus ending My XC Flight Mikes away from a Road and access to my retrieval vehicle. So you can see my interest in having the ability to pack up My Predator. I want to also look into developing a set-up where while all parts would be carried by me in my harness anfd inside the Predator. I want to have a set-up that would allow me to attach two light weight wheels to ONE END OF THE predator. While also having an set-up where I could have an harness that would allow me to attach to the glider from the other end of the Glider from the wheels. This way I could lug My Glider to the nearest road.

I look at it this way; Yes I am an aggressive XC Pilot. But Flying XC the way that I do. Getting low over inhospitable terrain someday I will sink out and have to land way away from a Road. I want to be prepared for that day. My Predator has an incredible ability to climb. But some day I will find myself on the ground Miles from a road, then what?

The last time I flew My Predator March 28th 2010 I weighed 298 Pounds. The last time I stepped upon a scale I weighed 198 pounds , that was about two weeks ago. You know the way I lost a hundred pounds was really so easy to do. I stand just a little short of being 6' 4" tall. I went on the {POUND DIET}. Really the only negative to the {POUND DIET} is one must survive step one. Yes You need to survive part one. Yes You cannot succumb to Death.

You know I was talking to My Friend Kevin Dutt just the other Day. I said to Kevin; "You know Kevin that now that I weigh one hundred pounds less than when I flew my last flight. I will be a force to be reckoned with" Kevin replied by saying; "Chris your were a Force"

NOW I only need to loose about thirteen more pounds. But I believe that I will not do a pound Diet this time. Yes, the POUND-DIET while it certainly is an effective way to loose weight. It is a potential Killer.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Wed May 25, 2022 12:52 pm

Chris, perhaps be open to dragging a packed HG over varied terrain as well as lifting a made-light short-packed HG. Consider parts aimed for doubling as sleigh, ski, sled, travois, TCF travois (triangle-control-frame travois).

The trek to and from a city bus may be a short or long trek. Such treks may be over sidewalks and paved roads; but perhaps such treks will be over gravel, sand, rock, dirt roads or paths, paved roads, brush, marsh, bogs, tall grass, or even water. Parts of the HG may or may not be diverted to form travois, wheeled travois, or the like. https://tinyurl.com/HGtravois

When a route is moderate and paved: consider 2-wheel, 3-wheel, or 4-wheel arrangements; consider abrading Teflon pads; consider inflated parts doubling as wheels or floats. Consider land sailing morphed downed HG. Consider morphing the HG into a bicycle. Consider morphing parts into a mono-wheel walker.


_________________________________________________________________
Many ways for coupling two sticks, two extrusions, two tub, two pipes with intent of decoupling for packing and tote: splines, scabs, splints, hoses, webbing, sleeves, internal couplers, external couplers, telescoping stick ends, hose segments, hose clamps, overlapping, bolting, shear pinning, knob-and-slot, hook and loop, snaps, press-fitting, groove-and-turn locking, belting, camlocks, whip overlap, clamp, tapes, threaded inserts, unthreaded inserts, threading, plugging, ... We are not looking for permanent bonds here; not welding, not gluing, not fusing, ...
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Chris McKeon » Wed May 25, 2022 5:38 pm

I'm in the Boat that many other Pilots have. that problem is retrieval! I have a friend who turns up his nose to the mere mention of the Word XC. I on the other hand, see flying XC as a natural progression to say Flying of a Bunny Hill or worse than that making Mind numbing passes up and down a Costal ridge. But there is that one bad word regarding launching from a Mountain and heading out Retrieval is always A Problem. That is why I am interested in this Post. I can see it now I have just completed a relatively short XC from Mount Diablo. I short Pack My 158 Predator. I call say a Cab. By the time I reach the Road ten or fifteen Minutes later my Taxi shows up. The Driver of the Taxi and I get my 5' long Predator fitted into the vehicle. Then Wow La-! We are off and running. I must ask John what He thinks of making the Predator so as to be short packed.

So I must just face the Potential reality that some day when I am out flying XC, I will for the umpteenth time will be low , while at the same time being far from a road. I will do that thing, that two word phrase that starts with a four letter cuss word Note to Bob. Sorry for using that foul Four Letter word. I know that I should not use profanity. But I use that foul filthy four letter word to describe that happens to all of us. That Word is Sink. Bob please deo not ban Me.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu May 26, 2022 2:23 pm

:srofl: A first version toward project Wing4-splinted-inflated-LE is serving many lessons. E.g., spar case is too heavy at 11 lb. On the first version pack may come in at 4 ft. max. length. All parts are in house now. Bladder is in house and twice weight eventually wanted; present is at 2 lb. Spar case is in house. All aluminum sticks are in house. Soft lines are in house. Sail material is in house. First version will be SS; second version will be sock DS; comparisons will be observed and noted. Procedure to assemble bladder to spar case and close spar case has been delineated to effect clean and untwisted insertion of bladder to the spar case; then closing the spar case will occur. Cutting first trial sail has not been done yet. Material for compression member to be tied to spar case for flight is in house. Central-ring designing is still occurring. High-hat wing materials are at hand for a first version.

Following version one of a type will invite version two of the type. Eventually many wing types will be in the project flow; comparisons will be made. First versions of types simply won't satisfy.

Present first version of a type will have a central ring. Attached to the central ring will be spar-compression-element flight lines that surface the inflated spar. Also, the ring will be base for kingpost and base for keel and base for TCF (triangle control frame). The ring will also base forward and rear flight lines staying the base of the TCF. The ring will stay ringing the spar case during pack and tote; the ring will form a wrap core for the spar case. Pack and tote will have the bladder stay encased in the spar case. Sail will be separated from the spar case for pack and tote. The ring will potentially root sweep-stay lines, if needed; thus the nose part of the ring will act, if needed, as a mini-bowsprit; first efforts will be without sweep-stay lines. The nose of the ring will base frontal kingpost landing line; the other KP landing line will root at the rear of the keel. The ring will be available for basing a keel rib above the keel main. The ring might be circular or triangular or square in lateral planform. The ring will attach well to the spar case to transmit torsion-control forces to the spar case.

First version of first trying type will have no medial ribs; only three ribs will be tried first: two tip ribs and one keel rib. Hopefully satisfactory glide will occur without more ribs. But later versions of same type will have medial ribs in order to compare systems.

The present overweight spar case will be taking some beatings with many experiments. During the time that several experimental glide sessions occur, other spar cases will be being built for trial using same sail and stick parts. Differences among the versions varied by spar cases will be observed and noted.
RingOptions.jpg
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Chris McKeon » Thu May 26, 2022 9:43 pm

Joe I like that, I do not know what to call it, but why could that set-up work with instead of the Bag is it? as pictured. Why could one not attach the Wheel to a Short Packed Glider and then off one would go. Or I imagine that you could simply put Your glider in it's Bag then attach the wheel to one end of the Glider. and the harness deal is it? Being able to short-Pack Your Glider, so much the better.

If i had the ability to move My Glider over rough terrain, it would be a real great thing. Off-Topic, well not exactly On-Topic. I am very much on track to returning to be Flying. In fact My next Flight will be made when I Fly a Wills-Wing 330 Condor. 330, Can You say; "One Big Glider?"

As of Late, I have been Bouncing off the Walls. For I am after 12 Years, I will Fly.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sat May 28, 2022 10:27 am

Chris, your spirit obviously has you flying now! You give hope honor. :salute:
A wheel or two to rear of short or long pack is a method that has served hang gliding for trekking good distances. Some short packs have been back-packed. There is a service space for 2 meter "short packs." Such is known. What is not yet practiced is the pleasant deal of a 5-ft or 4-ft max-length HG where the pack is pretty non-ostentatious and non-hazardous inside passenger area of common city buses, a target of this discussion thread.

=================================
I wrote recently of "ring" being designed and showed some option planforms; progress is giving a different option of a partial "ring" that grabs just the upper portion of the spar case for foundation and torsion transfer to the spar case. Think at-most of a semi-ring, and not a full ring. For a Dockweiler Dandy early version, a semi-ring affair is winning first efforts here.
semiring.jpg
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So-called "compression-element cables" are studied in the splinted-inflated-beam world; such cables usually are shown going from one end of the beam's compression element to the other end of the compression element after wrapping around the belly of the inflated beam. In the Dockweiler Dandy first version, those cables will not follow that scheme; rather the cable path with be from medial points of the compression element to the TCF (triangle control frame), that is what we know as or side flying wires. Two lines on left, at least; and two lines on right, at least. HG use of the splinted inflated spar has loads distributed across the full spar; we do not have in the HG a bridge where an automobile travels from one end of the bridge to the other end of the bridge; rather, we have the pilot loaded in the center region of the bridge while lift support occurs along the full length of the bridge.

A progress for SS experimental version of a first Dockweiler Dandy Wing4 (not 5) has been made: The SS will be frontal hemmed; in the hem will be placed a stiffish flat; then at 6-inch intervals a tiny shoe-knot tie will hold down the hem-held-flat. The strings will be permanently installed in the spar case; at assembly, the ties will be threaded through a tiny hole in the sail adjacent to inner edge of the flat slat; then shoe-tie knots will be quickly tied to cause the leading edge of the sail-hem to hug the spar case. The position of the leading edge of the sail will be hopefully just below the most probable aerodynamic stagnation point of the front face of the spar case. Perhaps the stringing parts of the tie may be tucked under the sail edge hem. The weights of the interval strings and the stiffish flat will be low; time will tell. The perma-setting of the interval strings will use two poke-through-the-case holes in the spar case; the distance apart of each two-holes will match the width of the flat slat, so that the position of the slat is firmed. It is guessed that each two-hole set will be 6 inches away from neighbor two-hole sets. For 20-ft spar span: 41 stations of two-poked-holes. The poked holes will be made in the spar case using a needle threaded with the chosen string; shearing hole punch will not be used; only needle-poke holes will occur; ark hole position, pinch spar case, put needle through the pinch, cut length; after strings are set: dab puncture position with a tiny dab of appropriate glue. Notice that the spar case need not be airtight; the interior bladder will be the airtight part.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Chris McKeon » Sun May 29, 2022 8:36 pm

You Know I would love to talk to You 925-497-1059. I would like to speak to You directly. For I am very much on the come-Back Trail regarding Flying. In the Past because I was often so aggressive in My Flying Style I would find My self miles from the nearest road, I would be on the verge of sinking so low that in mere moments I would be needing to turn my glider into the wind and then land. then what? I thought of having to lug My Glider and My Helmet and My Harness and My Helmet 5 or ten Miles to the nearest Road Ugh!

Heck I am not the only one to have been pn an CX Flight. In the Situation where You Find yourself so low. Where if You were to land Getting Your Glider and Gear to the Road would be an ordeal. Some How each time I have been in the situation where it is either work Your way up working a weak Snaky Thermal My Predators incredible ability to climb has save the Day. I have been in the too Low, oh wow, I am going to have to land soon, too many times. There will come a Day when I will be so Low, that it will be do it, land now! Having a way to cart My Glider would be so cool.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby dhmartens » Mon May 30, 2022 1:41 pm

Jeff Bezos was using one of these off Hawaii a few months ago, it might be catching on.
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