Sign in, say "hi", ... and be welcomed.

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:45 am

I did a pro-con comparison-and-contrast on two schemes.
Scheme: .... Phoenix, etc.
Scheme: ... Wrapped-Splinted Aggregate _______ This won the deal to be first-to-be-built. :thumbup: I aim later to build out other schemes.

Wrapped-Splinted Aggregate (WSA) is thus the chosen deal for contemporary build. Aggregate of what? Of many spars of various sizes!
Materials will be collected and formed to become Wing5-WSA#1 There will be iterations as lessons are learned: Wing5-WSA#2, ..
Splints or compression elements (CEs) will be married to at least two spars; the CEs with their spars and interior bladders will be coilable to a radius that will remain polite on ordinary city buses.

I will explore Los Angeles Garment District for spar-case material.
First bladders will be low-cost unsatisfactory polyethylene bag material. Later iterations: TPU bladders.

Aggregated splinted spars will be locked into group format by a system of strap nub-slot (SNS) for chordwise and single-cord-into-double-cord-adjacent-locking (SDCL) for spanwise locking upon inflation. The aggregate of splinted-inflated spars will be globally wrapped; the wraps will have appliques of-skinned-compressible-foam in two spanwise regions to cure airfoil unwanted "flats" ... something Phoenix group did not apparently solve. The wraps tauten to airfoil upon full inflation of the aggregate of spars. Added to the wrapped aggregate of spars for a final trailing edge will be a segmented reflex platform (RP).

A high hat (HH) will also be used in the flight system as part of the control system. Vee Control (VC) and/or tip ruddering (TR) will be explored.
Pitch safety will arrive from a balance of the HH, RP, SNS, and SDCL.
=========================l================================
I will be exploring landing the Wing5-WSA#1 in water with intent of sailing or paddling it as a water hull to shore. ( :shock: Launch a sea raft via flight from Torrey??????)
=========================================================
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:44 pm

I may choose a different scheme for first-make Wing5 instead of the aggregate-spar deal, as another scheme is attractive for first-make in the current effort. The empty weights are changing my mind. The multiplicity of options are exciting.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:26 am

A change: The soon first Wing5 build will not be the aggregate-spar item of DS, etc., as the weights and complexity damped the direction, tabled for later.

Soon will be Wing5-SSSabSBRnSnDHH (single-surface, splinted air-beam spar, batten-ribbed, no-sweep, no dihedral, high hat). This will have some challenges, but will be easier, faster, and lighter than some other schemes. The LE will be the front surface of the splinted airbeam. Pitch safety will arrive from a combination of the HH, TE treatments, variations in strut-supports of the battens (pocketed single-tube items rooted at the spar's compression member). A vertical fin will be above the aft portion of the keel rib; the support strut will marry to the keel rib and extend up and aft; the two beam parts will be webbed for the vertical fin. Compression element embedded in the spar case will be coilable to meet city-bus package politeness. Sail will attach to the spar via hook-and-loop tapes or a long zipper (not decided yet). A rigid control frame supporting the HH will mount to the spar. The wing is to be a "Dockweiler-Only Wing."

When built and flown without tissue loss, a rename may occur, perhaps Wing5-M1, but not yet. :crazy: :yawn:
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:19 am

Bob Kuczewski wrote:... I like the idea of taking a regular glider (maybe someone's worn out Falcon?) and fitting it with:

  • A mechanism to easily remove the sail from the frame
  • Sleeves to join longer tubes after cutting for short packing

I think that's a practical approach and could be accomplished fairly easily within our abilities.


JoeF wrote:Excellent practical approach for a family of solutions, BobK! Mod-05-Falcon-1-195 might be a first in that family. Hacksaw is ready (or cut-off saw!). Velcro committee is waiting; or the Zipper Crew. Coupling captain is alert to core and oversleeve. Logistics secretary is ready with notebook. Tangle clerk is an avoid-knot expert. We cannot miss!
...
... on the bus I go, on the bus I go, happy as a cricket. :wave:


We never really explored that approach. Maybe it is time to put out a call for old worn-out or damaged gliders to use as prototypes? It is a shame that the hang gliding community has become so forcibly segregated that universal broadcast requests such as this are not currently possible.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
Bob Kuczewski
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6930
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Frank Colver » Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:37 am

I have salvaged WW Eagle tubing that I collected for my Puffin project. It looks like the Puffin will never be built, so now I can donate that tubing to Joe's project to use for short lengths, sleeves, etc.

Frank
Frank Colver
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:21 am

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:50 am

On June 10, 2015, JoeF wrote:This topic is dedicated to the "The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement"
    :
Designs need not be fit for "all possible uses", but may be with limited activity. Consider "Dandy Handy Dockweiler" sledders in conservative airs.
    :
Aim for bus-ability.
    :
Consider whatever might bring to hang gliding a busable 5-ft long pack.


On June 25, 2021 Frank Colver wrote:It looks like the Puffin will never be built ...


Maybe it could be built as a 5 foot busable glider?    :idea: :clap:


Rather than "killing 2 birds with one stone", why not build 2 birds into one glider?
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
Bob Kuczewski
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6930
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:09 pm

:idea: Generous offer, Frank. I will keep the offer visible to tap when specifications call out. :salute:

Bob, my guess is that very many different wings will be built to fit the polite-city-busable call. Many build centers across the world may generate the wings. Gradually some results will be more pleasant than others. I am aiming to build along several schemes. The first soon-to-be wing will necessarily follow some certain scheme. The momentum of the build will feed the next wing; the tooling and habits will bring on second and third and ... iterations within various schemes will produce next wings more readily. Dedicating space and investments in tools and skills grows to an accumulative impact that will generate many wings over many schemes.

First scheme unfolding for me will not be a hack over an extant wing. Per engineer MacCready of aviation-world fame to his sons: learn while doing; such will help form follow-on wings.

First scheme this month and next couple of months will be single-spar of splinted airbeam (case-and-bladder),
:arrow: rigged X control frame,
:arrow: wires-not-cantilevered,
:arrow: "wires" will be soft,
:arrow: One full-span spar of 30 ft.
:arrow: some taper to the wings,
:arrow: high hat HH,
:arrow: spar will have two compression elements segmented and coupled (holding off on coiling for later plays) (one zenithal for anti-buckling from lift loads. One aft at about at about 3 o'clock for anti-buckling from drag loads), The segments will be at most 5 ft long; sliding couplers are anticipated. Compression element segments are permanently bonded to spar case. Soft hinging in five places will occur for pack.
:arrow: Airfoil will accept the spar's inflated leading edge shape. Live with its resultants!
:arrow: one aft at about at about 3 o'clock for anti-buckling from drag loads),
:arrow: set of batten ribs seated on compression-elements featuring stand-offs and tensed camber-making bow strings,
:arrow: separated mainsail zippered to spar,
:arrow: set of rib-support struts rooted at spar and set to batten ribs (with some going beyond upwards to form foundation for outboard aft fins.
:arrow: The slightly tapered left and right spars will give a slight sweep.
:arrow: No bowsprit. Aim is to depend on the splinted spar and aft-spar compression element to resist drag.
:arrow: The X control frame will be tensed to keel from above and below.
:arrow: Rigging will be draggy; will explore loose line streamlining to see if there is any noticeable gain.
:arrow: Pitch safety will arrive from rib-support strut seating, TE reflex treatment, HH.
:arrow: HH will allow quick experiments over choices of HH wings above the main wings.
:arrow: Rigging outboard will be to points on the surface of the spars' most leading point and also to spars' most aft point of mid-side-wing station.
:arrow: This morning's batten ribs attracting build are flat until perma-two-rooted strings (PTRS) are stressed with small stand-offs. Packing will see the flat straight battens; flight will see camber formed from the family of PTRS.
:arrow: Bladder will be from first-arriving material among TPU, PVC, PET. PET will not be satisfactory. Best would be the TPU. I will be trying many materials.
:arrow: Spar case will be pinched and sewn at tips. One spar, not two. Two would have the challenge of unequal inflation air pressures, not wanted.
:arrow: Center-span region design is still not settled. Spar at keel closed using bulbous fabric cap will invite airfoil healing via hook-and-loop applique marrying left and right. But rigid caps for keel end of the airbeams might allow easy bolting and integration of the X control frame. Iterations here are expected.
:arrow: Soft lines will use stubby knot-ended shorts at connection points; then loop-loop with pigtails for larksheads will finish rigging. I will enjoy the assembly and disassembly of the lines at flying site ---- no hurry. Line segments will be soft carried during tote. No stainless steel; no Nicopress sleeving. Tlabel is for the top end of the X frame. L is for left side. R is for right side. s is for spar-attach point. a is for aft of spar. f is for front of spar. k is for aft of keel. B is for bottom tip of X frame. Lines: ZRsf, ZLsa; ZRsa, ZLsa; BRsf, BLsf; BRsa, BLsa; ZRk, ZLk; BRBL, ZRZL. The BRBL is the axis for HH. The ZRZL is the base-line in control from to be sleeved for grip.
:arrow: Spar diameter inflated may go to 14 in and taper to 8 in. Such may give 3 in of sweep as seen from the projected sideview. Unloaded dihedral resultant would also be 3 in. Aeroelastic resultants upon loading will be interesting!
:arrow: :arrow: Pack: 5 ft tall. Handy on other dimensions; perhaps two-part luggage.

Site assembly: DRAFT PROCEDURE is surely not complete:
Open accordioned six-section integrated one spar of 30-ft span.
Slide into place five compression-element couplers for top compression element; so same for aft compression element five couplers.
Zipper mainsail to spars.
Seat flat ribs to spar beneath mainsail.
Place keel to spar and keel rib and mainsail TE.
Seat flat ribs to TE of mainsail.
Inflate spar. Measure air pressure.
Set rib struts to spar and flat ribs.
Place ribs' camber-making standoffs.
Place fins: L, R, K.
Tie downs set.
Place X and rig X. Place HH airfoil on its line before setting final end of ZRZL.
Connect all lines.
Place hang loop.
=============================
Do system check. Test. Observe. Be ready for surprises and anomalies.
Check air pressure before each flight.
Hook-in.
Fly. Be thankful. Share information and joy of flying.
Observe results. Make notes. Improve systems.

=============================
Make changes to system.
Build other wings. Compare wings.
==========================

Others may show up at Dockweiler or other sites with 5-ft pack solutions or 4-ft or 3-ft solutions .... :idea:
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:19 pm

Some hint in above post indicates a possible use of two spars, one for left and one for right. Such matter is discarded for at least the important challenge two spars would give: balancing air pressures directly or indirectly. Instead: just go with one 30-ft spar. Compression elements in the 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock positions of the spar will be segments at five stations to allow accordion fold. Couplers will slide to integrate the compression and anti-buckling capacity of the compression elements.

Further: Batten-rib support struts will be canted to help keep ribs from rotating keelwise.
=================================================================================

FIVE SUBASSEMBLIES
1. Spar (CEs, zippers, bladder, valves, meter)
2. Sail with perma-ribs (ribs integrated with bow strings), stand-offs for cambering (held aside)
3. X, HH, heart, keel, hang loop
4. Lines
5. Support struts, fins
================================================
Note: Present aim is to have two zippers involved in the spar case. One for mainsail. Other for closing and opening spar case for a host of reasons.
Note: Present aim is to have ribs perma-set into mainsail; hence: no in and out operations for the ribs. Sail with ribs will be packed to 5-ft bundle.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:26 pm

Present aim nets "165" as probable net projected square feet. Rough calculation is
(6)(5)(5+0.5)=165 sq. ft
Wing5-__?____ is growing.

At the moment, it seems probable that the "zippers" will be segmented to six sub-zippers for each of the two runs; that will be 12 zipper sets (24 tape sews). Each tape sew will be close to 5-ft long.


"heart" regards a part in the keel subassembly; the heart will be base for the X assembly and keel assembly. Heart involves a segment of a cylinder that wraps the spar; the heart is hoop-registered to the spar via the compression elements. Torque on spar will thus be registered with the rest of the wing.

The X will have a sub-X part that holds firm the four arms of the X. The upper HH arms are wanted to be carbon fiber ultimately but first iteration will have them in aluminum. Lower two arms of X control frame will be aluminum to protect the pilot (not needles from failed carbon fiber).
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:24 am

Opportunity for Mainsail Explorations
Given 5-ft by 30-ft intent for mainsail with attachment to spar, notice that there could be the possibility of quick change-outs of mainsail-rib-set variations.
In such notion there would be a need for an attachment scheme. Attach experimental changeout mainsail-rib items to the main spar and rib-support-positioning strut beams. Compare and contrast the various mainsail-rib items. [[Recall that about 15 sq. ft more projected wing area is obtained from projecting half the spar area, as the mainsail attaches at half-spar chordwise position. Thus: 150+15=165 for net wing-area indicator.]]
:?: Nets with patches of various scrap materials: plastic films, papers, Tyvek, fabrics,
:?: Various films
:?: Various sandwiched materials
:?: Various fabrics
:?: Inflated drop-stitch double-wall panels or patches
:?: Various patches along chord
:?: Various dopings of various fabrics
:?: Feathers on base mainsail
:?: White-board surfacing of mainsail. Erasable drawing and messaging on the mainsail.
:?: Sell advertising space on the mainsail. Give advertising space freely for some purposes. Windsports phone number? Love messages.
:?: Transparent materials
:?: Fine art on the mainsail.
:?: etc.

Attach-mainsail-to-spar schemes ... explore
:?: Knobs at spar and holes near edge of mainsail. Hole over knob.
:?: Zip-lock run. Bond part on edge of mainsail; bond part to spar.
:?: Hooks at spar and holes near edge of mainsail. Hook into holes.
:?: Magnetic strip on spar; magnetic material strip on edge of mainsail.
:?: Hook-and-loop
:?: Zipper segments
:?: Press fit cord in groove.
:?: String series on spar. Holes in edge of mainsail. Tie mainsail using strings threaded through the holes.
:?: Snap parts. Bond part to edge of mainsail. Bond part to the spar.
:?: Holes in mainsail edge. Fold-over locks on spar. Insert stem through holes; then fold stem over to be held down by flap or cam or the like.
:?: Long clamps
:?: Knot on short line for setting in keyholes in edge of mainsail
:?: Heat flange edge of mainsail. Clip flange into catch that is on spar.
:?: Hook to hook: Heat form edge of mainsail to obtain linear hook edge. Have matching linear hook on spar.
:?: ???

Camber-forming Standoff Explorations
:?: I, T, L, U, MMM, WMWM
:?: Fin
:?: Inflated
:?: Carbon fiber thins
:?: Straw segments
:?: Wood segments
:?: Spindles
:?: Streamlined items
:?: Color coded
:?: Various lengths to configure new airfoils and/or washout patterns
:?: Reflex configuring via standoffs
:?: Upper standoffs consider for airfoil forming..... and reflex forming. Explore. Upper bow strings in some selected ribs.
:?: Map of standoffs. Labeling standoffs. Log of experiences and resultants.
:?: ????

Standoff Holds to Rib-Mainsail and to Bow Lines
Standoffs will be in compression. Bow lines will be taut when standoffs are placed.
:?: Small stops on bow lines
:?: Holes or dents in rib
:?: Glue dabs
:?: Knots
:?: ???

Spar-to-Rib Struts
:?: Optimized or not
:?: Material specification
:?: Connection to spar
:?: Connection to ribs
:?: Low mass. Single-ply carbon-fiber tube might be nice. $$$?
:?: Some will extend through rib to form fin foundation. Others stop at the lower side of the rib.
:?: Cant strut in order to press rib outward toward wing tip from center. Left toward left. Right toward right.
:?: Lengths to set desired wing twists. Seating point on rib to get desired performance.
:?:
Last edited by JoeF on Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org

View pilots' hang gliding rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System
JoeF
User avatar
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 pm

PreviousNext
Forum Statistics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Options

Return to Hang Gliding General