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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Frank Colver » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:59 am

Progress update.

As of midnight last night I finished the design of my nose and tip plates. It was a little more effort on my autoCAD than just designing a nose plate because the tips have a different folding situation and I wanted to make all six pieces identical, for my labor efficiency when it comes time to fabricate them. With these plates the glider will be able to be folded with the six foot tip tubes in place. The diagonal brace for the tip will need to be removed or at least disconnected at one end, minimum.

Next design effort will be all the hole positions on all the airframe tubing (I've already done the portions that go between the plates). When it comes time to actually drill the holes I'll be using John Heiney's method of a digital level for setting angle differences between hole positions along the tubing.

The name is Puffin not Puffer. Puffin is a low aspect ratio bird that flies well.

Please don't hijack this thread for USHGRS discussions which have nothing to do with my basic trainer design thoughts, that discussion has its own threads, go there. Presumably, anyone earning a rating with the Puffin will get that rating listed in USHGRS.

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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:31 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote:I am extremely disappointed that the desire to gather support for this "Puffer" has led to silence in defending USHGRS. I sure hope this glider is a star or I'd hate to be among those who put the "Puffer" ahead of USHGRS.    :eh:


Frank Colver wrote:Please don't hijack this thread for USHGRS discussions which have nothing to do with my basic trainer design thoughts, that discussion has its own threads, go there.


Your puffer has everything to do with USHGRS. When you first started posting on hanggliding.org you told me personally that you didn't care if you got banned because you didn't post there anyway. Remember that?

But once you saw an avenue to promote your interests (including the puffer) you turned 180 degrees. You watched Joe Faust be banned and you allowed Jack to shut you up about it. You watched all references to USHGRS be obliterated and you didn't make a peep about it. You did that because you wanted to promote your puffer. So there is a permanent connection between the two. I'm just documenting that connection. There's more to this puffer topic than just aerodynamics and mechanics.
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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Frank Colver » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:18 pm

I did more than anybody to help Joe and USHGRS but you didn't want me to succeed because you want known HG names to be banned so they can only post your site. I finally understood your secret agenda to get and keep people banned from HG.org. It's all about you and your personal fights. You don't care about USHGRS. Joe Faust, or anything else except your personal fights. You were sabotaging my efforts to get Jack to accept Joe and USHGRS. I had almost succeeded when I realized that you didn't want me to succeed. Too bad that Joe is caught up in your personal vendettas.

Since you deliberately misname my project, like some school kid bully, and insist on hijacking my design thread for your own agenda, I will no longer be posting on this "all for Bob Kuczewski" web forum. US Hawks could have been a great site if not for your personal vendettas and you making it your personal battleground. It's all about you but it took me longer than some others to realize that.

I feel sad that I expended so much energy and time trying to help you.

I now join the good names that have already left the US Hawks, if anyone wants to continue following my basic trainer design ideas and progress go to hangliding .org

Remember this project is for the good of hang gliding and it will only cost me a lot of money, with no personal return except the satisfaction of seeing more people learning to fly.

Any replies to this posting will not be seen by me.
Sincerely, Frank Colver

BTW - Please Bob seek professional help for your condition. I liked you and I want to see you get well and productive instead of hate filled and unreasonably twisting things into your personal fight. I wish you hadn't destroyed our friendship.
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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:29 pm

Frank, you allowed Jack Axaopoulos to bully the people you called "friends" and you did nothing to help them. Now you promote the site and the person who did that to your "friends". Your definition of "friendship" does not match mine.

You would be banned by Jack for the post you just made because that's the only way Jack can win an argument. I have no impulse to ban you because my arguments are rock solid. Your post is one long personal attack, but none of it addresses your own shame in watching Joe Faust be banned and now supporting the person who banned him.

Wikipedia introduces the "Stockholm syndrome" as a "condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity". That's exactly what's happened to both you and Red. You're both hostages to the audience you've found on hanggliding.org. Neither of you can look me in the eye and justify Joe's banning or the obliteration of USHGRS. And yet here you are giving your support to the evil person who did that deed.

So now you run away because you can't face what you've done. You fire a parting shot full of lies that you can't back up. For example, you say I don't care about Joe Faust or USHGRS. But Joe Faust can post here and the name "USHGRS" can be typed here and read here. Neither of those are true on hanggliding.org so that shoots a big hole in that lie. The same is true for everything else in your poison pen post. You can't back it up so you leave. How convenient.

The record is clear that you posted merrily about your puffer while Joe Faust was banned. You remain free to amend the record here any time. Unlike what Jack would do to you, you're not banned here.

Frank Colver wrote:I did more than anybody to help Joe and USHGRS but you didn't want me to succeed because you want known HG names to be banned so they can only post your site. I finally understood your secret agenda to get and keep people banned from HG.org. It's all about you and your personal fights. You don't care about USHGRS. Joe Faust, or anything else except your personal fights. You were sabotaging my efforts to get Jack to accept Joe and USHGRS. I had almost succeeded when I realized that you didn't want me to succeed. Too bad that Joe is caught up in your personal vendettas.

Since you deliberately misname my project, like some school kid bully, and insist on hijacking my design thread for your own agenda, I will no longer be posting on this "all for Bob Kuczewski" web forum. US Hawks could have been a great site if not for your personal vendettas and you making it your personal battleground. It's all about you but it took me longer than some others to realize that.

I feel sad that I expended so much energy and time trying to help you.

I now join the good names that have already left the US Hawks, if anyone wants to continue following my basic trainer design ideas and progress go to hangliding .org

Remember this project is for the good of hang gliding and it will only cost me a lot of money, with no personal return except the satisfaction of seeing more people learning to fly.

Any replies to this posting will not be seen by me.
Sincerely, Frank Colver

BTW - Please Bob seek professional help for your condition. I liked you and I want to see you get well and productive instead of hate filled and unreasonably twisting things into your personal fight. I wish you hadn't destroyed our friendship.
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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Bill Cummings » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:16 pm

Sorry about all this uproar Frank.
Ive never seen this side of Bob before.
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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:29 pm

Bill Cummings wrote:Sorry about all this uproar Frank.
Ive never seen this side of Bob before.

And I'm sorry too Bill.

Almost all of the bad things that I've watched people do to one another in 60 years have depended on others turning their backs and looking away.

The only thing that gives power to Jack or Forbes or USHPA is people remaining silent. Silent acceptance of abuse of others accounts for everything from the crucifixion of Jesus Christ to the Salem Witch Trials to the holocaust of Nazi Germany. I will not be silent when I see people being abused. If that causes me to be the only person left on the U.S. Hawks ... then so be it.
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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Bill Cummings » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:37 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Bill Cummings wrote:Sorry about all this uproar Frank.
Ive never seen this side of Bob before.

And I'm sorry too Bill.

Almost all of the bad things that I've watched people do to one another in 60 years have depended on others turning their backs and looking away.

The only thing that gives power to Jack or Forbes or USHPA is people remaining silent. Silent acceptance of abuse of others accounts for everything from the crucification of Jesus Christ to the Salem Witch Trials to the holocaust of Nazi Germany. I will not be silent when I see people being abused. If that causes me to be the only person left on the U.S. Hawks ... then so be it.

Okay. I went on line to see what clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson had to say about free speech and telling what you believe to be the truth.
This is a short segment on that topic. We may go away with differing opinions on what he said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMj9wsrPE5U
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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Free » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:11 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
I will not be silent when I see people being abused. If that causes me to be the only person left on the U.S. Hawks ... then so be it.


Is this what we've all missed up to now? Is this your real goal?
If so, you are doing a fine job.
I don't like it. You are not being smart.
The abuse of Frank does not assuage the abuse of Jack's cowardly censorship.
The continuation of the badgering is actually turning your defenders against you.
You are failing to see the bigger picture.
Your strategy of mass public defection at hg org was never going to work the way you planned.
It was a bold plan but it kinda sucked.

Driving people away is driving people toward the kitty cat/puppy/coffee club that Jack runs.
Damn. If I could post over there I might dump you as well.
You need a shorter leash. Reign it in there soldier!
Apologize to Frank and beg him to come back.
Apologize to Red and Michael and beg them not to leave... if they haven't already.
I want to be able to converse with them here as my last option and you seem intent on destroying that.
WTH?
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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:54 pm

I think you already posted my reply:
Free wrote:
Bob Kuczewski wrote:
I will not be silent when I see people being abused. If that causes me to be the only person left on the U.S. Hawks ... then so be it.

None of the people you've mentioned are banned here. If they want to support Jack on his "kitty cat" site rather than come and converse with you here, then you already know what they think of you. It also shows what they think of Joe and the rest of us who Jack has banned (or who refuse to post there).

I guess that's what surprised me the most. I always knew that Red was soft on Jack, but I never would have thought that Frank or Mike would watch Joe be banned and then continue to post as if nothing had happened. Live and learn.
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Re: Hang Glider Basic trainer thoughts

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:18 pm

One more thought ...

The U.S. Hawks is open and available to Jack and Davis and Mark Forbes. None of them are banned, and they can all post here if they want. But in my mind, this site is really here for those who take a higher view. They tend to be the people who have spoken out and paid the price. I won't throw any of them under the bus for any number of fair weather friends.

Everyone posting "happy happy" posts on hanggliding.org is implicitly condoning what Jack has done to Joe and you and me and Scott and everyone else that Jack has bullied. The U.S. Hawks doesn't ban them for condoning Jack's actions. But the U.S. Hawks also doesn't silence those who are critical of others as long as they use their real name. You can't have it both ways. You can't have the right to criticize Jim and Jack and Davis while denying me the right to criticize Frank and Mike and Red. But unlike hanggliding.org, they have the right to defend themselves here ... if they have any defense.
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