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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby spydermike » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:07 pm

Free wrote:Could we hear more about why you quit USHPA and OZ? I'm sure we could relate.

That, Warren, is truly a personal matter which has nothing to do with the USHPA organization or the OZ (of which I was never a subscriber and do not visit).

Sounds like a human interest story...


LOL, no human interest story here, trust me. Everyone, please, just keep er movin.

Some of Davis Straub's actions are negative to the survival of the sport. His motivations are in question. This is why I am putting him on the spot. He will not respond without pressure and that is what you may be perceiving as negativity. Pressure is a positive force applied to an object, to alter that object, perhaps in a positive direction.


Is the OZ report really that important to the sport (and the future of it)? Serious question. If you don't mind me asking, what is the perceived basis of it's significance?

Both of us need to pick up the pace and make a little noise.


I intend to give it a bit of a push in my own way locally to start...we will see if it works. New pilots are the key for sure. We are suffering the same fate in powered flight and I am going to do something there as well. If I can add just one, then we are better off, no?

But enough about me and my plans...

Mike
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby spydermike » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:21 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote:In honor of Mike's sincere observations, I invite all members of the U.S. Hawks to set their own goals for a percentage of positive posts to the forum. Mike can hold our feet to the fire if we don't live up to our pledges.


Whoa, hold on there, that is not why I am here...I just wanna fly!

I really don't care about USHPA and OZ...
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:50 am

spydermike wrote:Whoa, hold on there, that is not why I am here...I just wanna fly!

I really don't care about USHPA and OZ...


We all want to fly. That is indeed why we're here. Scott can't fly his local site because his local club convinced the land owner (who had previously given Scott permission) to keep him out unless he joins both their club and USHPA. Joe Faust (USHGA #5) can't fly certain sites on certain days because he doesn't want to support an organization that supports paragliding and its associated injuries. Bill Cummings can't fly at some of the events that he organizes because USHPA's insurance is exclusionary. I can't fly at any USHPA controlled sites because I testified in court in favor of a young woman who was injured through gross negligence of a USHPA school. These are just a few of the examples that I know.

There has been some progress. Mike Jefferson opened up Ed Levin Park to non-USHPA flying. Two years ago we opened up Dockweiler Beach (Los Angeles) to non-USHPA on certain days. Logan is our biggest hero for opening all of Utah's state parks to non-USHPA flying.

So yes, we all just want to fly. USHPA's tentacles of control have become an obstacle to flight for anyone who doesn't support USHPA. USHPA has become an effective monopoly. It will take the efforts of many to overcome that monopoly. Oz and hanggliding.org are just a mechanism to gain the numbers to do so. All three (USHPA, Davis, and Jack) oppose what we're building at the U.S. Hawks because it undermines what they currently control. That's why USHPA retaliated against the Torrey Hawks chapter (denying our renewal) and it's why you're not even allowed to mention the U.S. Hawks on either Oz or hanggliding.org.

Declaration of Independence wrote:... certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


That's what we're doing in the microcosm of hang gliding. But as we grow into that role, we also need to support the fun and positive aspects of hang gliding as you've suggested. You are right, and that's what motivated my pledge.

And speaking of fun, here's a frame from one of my fun flights at Funston:

Fun_at_Funston.png
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:46 am

I'm working on my positive post count, and all of these suggestions from Mike are 1000% positive:

spydermike wrote:2. Fly and be seen flying. Introduce the sport to any person that shows interest. Spread the passion. Share on social media.

3. Reduce the cost of the sport. Develop low cost beginner products - e.g., harnesses. Provide different setups like seated and suprone for those that don't want to fly prone (for whatever reason).

4. Develop sites near major urban areas for greater exposure. Get local press coverage if at all possible.

5. Create flying clubs to share equipment and provide a no-cost to low-cost way to fly though the H2 point. Most people will not fly all on the same day - share the equipment.

6. Link training and mentor-ship to the flying club to promote retention. Get people to H3 and beyond through the club. I took a three year hiatus from the sport at H2 because I had no mentor. I know others that dropped out at that point as well. I felt just knowledgeable to be dangerous to my self and I backed off. I needed more flights to get my confidence built. My main flight site requires a mentor and I couldn't secure one, so here I am.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Thanks for letting me post up.

Mike


These are exactly the kinds of things that should be done as much as possible.

Thanks Mike!!

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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bill Cummings » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:00 am

Bob Kuczewski wrote:I'm working on my positive post count, and all of these suggestions from Mike are 1000% positive:

spydermike wrote:2. Fly and be seen flying. Introduce the sport to any person that shows interest. Spread the passion. Share on social media.

3. Reduce the cost of the sport. Develop low cost beginner products - e.g., harnesses. Provide different setups like seated and suprone for those that don't want to fly prone (for whatever reason).

4. Develop sites near major urban areas for greater exposure. Get local press coverage if at all possible.

5. Create flying clubs to share equipment and provide a no-cost to low-cost way to fly though the H2 point. Most people will not fly all on the same day - share the equipment.

6. Link training and mentor-ship to the flying club to promote retention. Get people to H3 and beyond through the club. I took a three year hiatus from the sport at H2 because I had no mentor. I know others that dropped out at that point as well. I felt just knowledgeable to be dangerous to my self and I backed off. I needed more flights to get my confidence built. My main flight site requires a mentor and I couldn't secure one, so here I am.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Thanks for letting me post up.

Mike


These are exactly the kinds of things that should be done as much as possible.

Thanks Mike!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Mike,
Robin Hastings and I are doing what you posted to advance hang gliding
here in south New Mexico (USA).
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Free » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:06 am

spydermike wrote:
Is the OZ report really that important to the sport (and the future of it)? Serious question. If you don't mind me asking, what is the perceived basis of it's significance?


The Ozreport could really be that important to the sport, if Davis chose it to be so. Davis wields a tremendous power of influence for good or bad. He knows it, but makes decisions and acts only in his interest and that of other un-identified interests. He has said as much, recently, in answer to a comment or question from Joe Faust, who is censored widely.

The way the Ozreport is being run is a detriment to the sport by blocking creative minds and fostering the lowest common denominators, liars and thieves.
You were concerned that my 'Grendel's mother' comments would be a deterrent to prospective pilots and I disagreed because if that was the case those prospective people probably wouldn't have what it takes to stick with the usual expensive program of hoop jumping to become a pilot in the first place.

That was mostly all I disagree with you about. You say you don't read Ozreport but you came to this thread based on the locked down thread of the same title at the Ozreport?
I would still like to know why you don't visit the Ozreport as that would be more pertinent info as to what turns people off to any particular site or subject.


I intend to give it a bit of a push in my own way locally to start...we will see if it works. New pilots are the key for sure. We are suffering the same fate in powered flight and I am going to do something there as well. If I can add just one, then we are better off, no?

The internet makes the whole world local. New pilots are key to survival.
You are totally correct that if just one pilot is added to the group, that one pilot could be the one we are waiting for.
The plan that I had in mind could add many new pilots if I only had one generous benefactor to finance the program.
Where are all the millionaires when you need them? Some are murdering the free speech contributions of the creative.
This is why Davis Straub needs to be called out and all prospective pilots need to be apprised of his conflicts of interests.
Hope this helps with understanding what I'm doing.
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby spydermike » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:29 pm

Free wrote:You say you don't read Ozreport but you came to this thread based on the locked down thread of the same title at the Ozreport?
I would still like to know why you don't visit the Ozreport as that would be more pertinent info as to what turns people off to any particular site or subject.


I responded to this thread on this website. I did not come here from OZ and I don't go to OZ. I personally have no interest or connection to OZ. I honestly do not care how the thread started.

There is a similar Forum Topic on USPHA - "Growing the Sport of Hanggliding". I sense a common theme over the last few years I have tried to reconnect with the sport. It is being experienced in powered flight as well...EAA and AOPA among others are trying to grow the pilot population. That is what interests me.
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby spydermike » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:52 pm

Free wrote:You were concerned that my 'Grendel's mother' comments would be a deterrent to prospective pilots and I disagreed because if that was the case those prospective people probably wouldn't have what it takes to stick with the usual expensive program of hoop jumping to become a pilot in the first place.


As I first mentioned, I am concerned in general with negative posts against organizations and people involved in the sport...I think is a turn off to building commaraderie. To be clear, I was not singling you out nor did I mention that thread you reference. You can disagree with me, and that is fine. I understand your point. I am merely suggesting to minimize one of the "relatively easy" hoops to jump first.

A flying club can reduce the "expensive" nature of the sport. If anyone wants some interesting reading on the topic with real data, seek out AOPAs Flying Club Initiative data. It supports some interesting points. Personally, I think HG is the easiest and least costly form of entry to personal flight, but I think the costs can be reduced even further.
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:41 pm

spydermike wrote:A flying club can reduce the "expensive" nature of the sport.

Exactly right!!

In early 2007, several of us created the Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club to bring hang glider pilots together at Torrey Pines. We became a USHPA Chapter (#270) in September of 2007.

We got our first renewal notice in early 2008, and we renewed. We got a renewal notice at the beginning of every year since, and we completed all the paperwork for each renewal including 2016. These are the "Chapter Status" reports for all those years:

2008
2008.png
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2009
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2010
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2011
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2012
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2013
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2014
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2015
2015.png
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2016
2016.png
2016.png (69.18 KiB) Viewed 132 times


All was fine up through early 2016. Happy happy post. :)
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Re: Best Plan to Save Sport of Hang Gliding

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:58 pm

The Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club roster reads almost like a "Who's Who" of hang gliding. We were active in promoting hang gliding at Torrey, and we've been holding our regular "Second Sunday" gatherings at Torrey almost every month for over 10 years now. In fact, I'll be there tomorrow.

Here are some happy happy pictures from our early days (see full PDF below):

SecSun1.png

SecSun2.png

SecSun3.png


So we had a great club doing great things for hang gliding at Torrey. This is exactly what was needed to grow hang gliding at Torrey. We did regular outreach to UCSD students and we often gave free tandem flights to students and guests. All happy happy outreach.

 
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