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Re: Predator Model

Postby Chris McKeon » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:18 am

Models, smodels, I have the real thing laying outside My back Garage. What do I have? I have the most Awesome Rip Snorting, Long Distance XC Flying, oh so fast, Down wind up-hill landing, flat-out Awesome Glider imaginable, Aircraft!

Guys if you have not concluded Yet. I positively Love My Predator! I believe that today I have a strong affinity for My Predator than John has for His Predator. Heck John Heiney designed the Bird! You know when I would call John after a Flight where My Predator not only held its own when I flew with My friends Who were Flying their all Conquering, King-Post Glider's destroying Gliders. Those Totally dominating Top-less Gliders did not dominate the Day by flying further than My Predator.

I want to say this once again, but I simply truly love My Predator!

Here are some of the reasons that I love my Predator! I used to while I was flying XC. I would stay on Glide, where I would really fly fast. then I would end up getting quite low. I remember once when I was Flying XC in Nevada. I was so low that I could see birds who were roosting on branches in the Trees. Yet I found lift, and I was still able to get back up so I could continue on regarding my getting on GLIDE. Check this out I have experienced my share of whacks when I flew My First Glider. My first Glider was my Wills Wing Falcon 225. My second Glider that I ever had was my Altair Predator 158! The number of whacks that I had when lying my Predator was a far lower number than when I flew that FALCÓN 225. it makes Me think of that old quote; "You can't argue with success" "PREDATOR EQUALS SUCCESS"
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Re: Predator Model

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:06 pm

I used Joe Faust's earlier Predator photo (thanks Joe!) to construct a measurement diagram. While the photo is a Predator, I think the same measurements could be made for most common hang gliders. Note that you could use an image like Joe's posted photo as a rough start for building a model. You could measure things in pixels and then convert using known lengths to get actual values. Of course, an actual measurement is best.

OK, here's the measurement diagram. It's an animated GIF that goes through the preliminary steps of defining the origin followed by the 18 measurements listed above (and repeated below).

Glider_Measurements_Numbered.gif
Glider_Measurements_Numbered.gif (1.79 MiB) Viewed 128 times


And here are the 18 numbered measurements to go with that diagram:



















#Name Value                 Description
1Length of Leading Edge        Length of the leading edge from nose to tip
2Length of Keel        Length of the keel
3Keel Front y        Distance from the origin to the front tip of the keel
4Keel Rear y        Distance from the origin to the rear tip of the keel
5Wing Tip x        Distance from the origin to the right wing tip
6Wing Tip z        Vertical distance between the origin and right wing tip (this might be hard to measure, so just estimate it)
7Control Bar Height        Vertical distance from the base tube to the keel (perpendicular distance from the keel to the base tube)
8Control Bar Width        Width of the base tube from corner to corner
9Control Bar Location        Distance along the keel from the nose to the apex of the control frame
10Control Bar Rake        Horizontal distance along the keel from the apex of the control frame to the base tube (this may be hard to measure, so just estimate it)
11Cross Bar at Leading Edge        Distance along the leading edge from nose to cross bar junction where the cross bar meets the leading edge
12Cross Bar at Keel        Distance along the keel from the nose to the cross bar where it crosses the keel
13Cross Bar z from Keel        Vertical distance between the keel and the cross bar (typically 0 to a few inches)
14Kingpost at Keel        Distance along the keel from the nose to the kingpost (you can also measure from the rear of the keel and subtract from the keel length)
15Kingpost Height        Vertical distance (perpendicular to keel) from the keel to top of the kingpost
16Kingpost Rake        Horizontal distance (parallel to keel) between top and bottom of kingpost
17Trailing Edge        Distance along the keel from the nose to the trailing edge of the sail
18Rear Wire        Distance along the keel from the nose to the rear wire where it attaches to the keel


I took "pixel" measurements from Joe's photo and built a crude model. Here's a comparison of that model to the original image:

Glider_Comparison.gif
Glider_Comparison.gif (234.53 KiB) Viewed 127 times


As you can see, the model doesn't yet support the curvature of the leading edge. But other than that, it's not too bad considering that it came from a single photo. Hopefully we can get some actual measurements soon. I heard from Chris that he did get his Predator at least partially set up. He was thrilled to see it in person again. :thumbup:
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Re: Predator Model

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:36 pm

Here's my latest Predator model from Joe's posted photo:

{
'Version': 1.0,
'KeelFrontPoint': [0,94,0],
'KeelRearPoint': [0,-119,0],
'WingTipPoint': [291,-60,6],
'TrailingEdgePercentKeel': 52.5821596244,
'RearWirePercentKeel': 75,
'ControlBar': {
'Height': 65,
'Width': 107,
'ApexPercentKeel': 42,
'RakeDistance': 27,
},
'CrossBar': {
'PercentKeel': 35,
'PercentLeadingEdge': 59.0060240964,
'HeightAboveKeel': 7,
},
'KingPost': {
'PercentKeel': 42,
'Height': 50,
'RakeDistance': 3,
},
'Battens': {
'NumPerSide': 2,
'BattenList': [
{
'PercentLeadingEdge': 0,
'Segments': 20,
'LeadingEdge': [50,165],
'LeadingEdgeControl': [125,20],
'TrailingEdgeControl': [275,150],
'TrailingEdge': [685,160]
},
{
'PercentLeadingEdge': 100,
'Segments': 20,
'LeadingEdge': [225,305],
'LeadingEdgeControl': [240,295],
'TrailingEdgeControl': [283.5,297.1666717529297],
'TrailingEdge': [404.5,318.1666717529297]
}
]
}
}

You can select that text and copy/paste it into the "Glider Data (JSON format)" window and click "Update Model from Text" to see it and modify it. It should look something like this:

Predator_Top_2021_09_17.png
Predator_Top_2021_09_17.png (73.72 KiB) Viewed 115 times
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Predator

Postby Chris McKeon » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:59 am

You guys have positively no idea how awesome it is for me to be able to not only move my glider, but to be able to set it up. My glider is a Predator 158 - the hands down badest kingposted glider in the air that used to be able to fly farther than topless gliders. The way I see it, you cannot argue with success.
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Re: Predator Model

Postby Chris McKeon » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:28 pm

The Predator, I mean what a Bird! Yes I have not flown My 158 in Eleven Years Six Months. I mean John thank You for Designing such an awesome Glider. I look back at the Raw success that i enjoyed flying My Predator. My First Glider was a Wills Wing 225 Falcon. My second Glider was My Predator 158. Launching, Flying, Flying XC, Landing. It was while I was landing the Predator, landing My Predator I gained total confidence in My ability to land. I got to where I could land My Glider just about anywhere. Yes it was flying My Predator that I got fully proficient at landing Down-Hill up wind. It is so cool not to even have a concern regarding Whacking My Predor. I used to always when we were either driving uo to launch on some mountain. I had to listen to Pilots who flew Topless Gliders tell Me something like this"Hey Chris you really should think about getting Yourself a Topless. I would Reply; " why should I get a Topless Glider?" The Topless Glider would reply; "Because You would really enjoy the Performance." It was alwas either whle we were driving up the Mountain. Or it was when We were on top of the Mountain. But never did I have to listen to how these ;"Super Ships" would out distance My Predator.

Ok I need to be honest about my ability to fly XC. I am at best maybe regarding flying XC, I am at best only maybe better than average regarding be able to crank out long miles XC, But I did have an advantage, that advantage was My Predator.
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Re: Predator Model

Postby Chris McKeon » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:05 pm

{This Vegetable will Fly}

I just wanted to let everyone know that there is and there can Be life after one, Me that is,. Well after I pounded Myself into the ground to where My attending Doctors prognosis was that I would never fully recover. That I would recover Mentally to not much better than a Potato. Also that I would never walk again. Hey I am not making this up a Doctor really dis say this to My Great Sister Kathleen.

Well this Potato set-up my Predator today. My Friend Pilot-X came over and helped Me Tension the Glider. I have had a problem with my Predator. My Predator's Sail has Shrunk. It now is quite hard to tension my sail. I think that I have had a shrinkage issue with my Predators sail. I spoke with John regarding how difficult it has been to tension My Glider. Well John told Me that His Predator is also hard to Tension.

I really want to say to "X" that thank You Pilot-X, it was so cool of You to have come to My House and Help Me Tension My Glider. After all I am a Potato after all.
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Re: Predator Model

Postby Chris McKeon » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:55 am

Well after I have fed my Mother and Myself. I will go out to my yard where my great Flying, flat gliding fast Predator is laying back in it's Bag. I will set it back up and then I will call Bob, so that I can take a few more measurements that I will tell Bob over the Phone.

Well just some thoughts regarding what I plan on doing. I want to Jump a thoroughBred or a warm Blood Seven feet or More. I plan on running My Car down the Quarter Mile in Ten seconds or less in the quarter mile, asand go 200 miles an hour up at the Silver State Road Race up in Nevada, and My Predator. I must not forget that I have plans for my Predator. I want to fly My Predator XC. to traverse 100 Miles in Four Hours or less.

I guess One could say, or could call Me a Numbers Guy. I call Myself a Dreamer. Yes I have dreams. Granted My dreams are associated with Numbers that represent things such as Height, Speed, Distance, and Time.

Believe it or not the hardest Goal that I have been dreaming about. The most difficult for Mre To achieve is where I want to jump a Horse over a Seven Foot jump. Heck I already have My Car. I already have my Predator. My Mother was accepted to the US Equestrian Team in 1953. My Sister Kathleen was an awesome Hunter Jumper Rider. But there is a major Caveat regarding to My jumping say a Big old Warmblood, or a Thoroughbred. There is a saying that was said in the Equestrian Community. "It is not if You crash, it is when You Crash" Being that I am in the process of recovering from a near Death Head Trauma accident. I might never be able to run that Risk. Also a Horse that are able to jump high do not grow on Trees. I hope that Bob shows this Post to His Gal. For she will understand when I say how rare it is to have Horse that is capable of clearing a even foot Jump. She will know how that this is "Rare-Air"

For Me to sit here and talk about Flying 100 Miles in Four hours or Less. To Jump seven Feet or more! 25.000' or more. The Quarter Mile in 10 seconds or less.

I will just come out and say it. I just positively love Numbers!
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Re: Predator Model

Postby Chris McKeon » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:40 am

Bob please call Me.
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Re: Predator Model

Postby Chris McKeon » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:29 pm

Hi Everyone:

You know, I have been on one incredible ride. This ride took a Major turn to I really can not say, for When I pounded Myself into the Ground that windy Day March Eighteenth 2010. I became more learned regarding things such as Axonal Brain Shearing. Glial Cells, SwanCells. My Internal Organs absorbed a really High {G-Load". The impact really played Hell upon My internal Organs. Organs such as I stated already such as my Brain. My Pancreas. went Ballistic. my Glucose numbers shot up to the Moon. I had an all time high Glucose Number of 851! But that was Then, and this now. Overall I am Healthy, Poor, and I would not say that I am Wize. Boy have I learned so much regarding My Body. Take My Glucose for example. My Best, My lowest 7 Day Glucose average for Seven Day average was Eighty Eight point Eight. An average Blood Glucose number of 88.8 I can live with that sort of an Seven Day Glucose average.

Regarding My Predator. I must say that even though when I was Flying My Predator I darn near wore that expression; "Old Pilots and old Pilots. Yet there are no Old Bold Pilots. Yes I would fall into the category of being a Old Bold Pilot. I am 60 years old. I hope, no I know that My experience of My pounding Myself into the Ground on that March Sunday, has given Me a new level of wisdom.
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Re: Predator Model

Postby Chris McKeon » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:47 pm

If anyone has some information regarding how if were t6o increase my Predators Anhedral would change the way My Predator would roll . Please call Me . . . . 925-497-1059
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