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Ocean Hang Gliding ... OHG

Postby JoeF » Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:52 am

Ocean Hang Gliding OHG
Have launches and landings of hang gliders at sea with or without anchored or floating or mobile platforms. Such is the topic of this discussion thread.


Methods
Safety
Development
Accounting
Logistics
Equipment
Facing corrosion challenges
Readiness for mishaps
Wings
Regulations
Coast Guard
F.A.A.
Pros and Cons
Recreational
Commercial
Storms
Weather
Communications
Lift
Thermals over bodies of water
Wind
Currents
Sharks and other ocean life
Special sea sites
Small-island influences over OHG
Using orographic lift during an OHG session
Launching from a sea-anchored kite-system aerial platform
Records for duration, out-and-back, distance
Living-at-sea OHG operations
Last edited by JoeF on Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:30 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Ocean Hang Gliding

Postby Craig Muhonen » Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:03 pm

Thanks Joe once again for your dedication
Here is a thought experiment;

Could a boat or boats, not unlike Bill Bennett and friends did in 1968, tow a Hang Glider into the lift band at TPGP?

Then, could same HG land at TPGP, with or with out being accosted?

Then, get everything on film?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmSt4eC0enI



Then, have a "broadcaster" on shore describing what they saw, and interviewing pilots and spectators?

Then, publish it on different platforms for all to see?

Then, expand this idea to other HG launch sites.

Then capture a picture of Bob, and many others I expect, with a "Cheshire Cat" smile on his face?. ha..

Then, a whole new AI platform for HG and it's many possible subscribers?

HOpinion C:+o)



.
Last edited by Craig Muhonen on Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ocean Hang Gliding

Postby JoeF » Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:25 pm

Craig, ... thanks.
1. Landing by plan would be distinct from landing via emergency. A jury might easily surmise that a landing was by design, not emergency, especially with our notes in this forum at their hand! Boat towing hang gliders to altitude is a well developed technology; the kiting of a hang glider wing and pilot for release to free flight is historical and contemporary. Experienced team members at both ends of the line are important. The lift zone at Torrey cliffs is federal air space. The leased parcel at TPGP seems to be a limited parcel; there seems to be land outside the leased parcel that belongs to UCSD, like the fixed-wing landing strip; I am not up to speed on the conditions of parcels just north of the Salk Institute. But if a flight plan was OHG (ocean to ocean hang gliding) was practiced and recorded well, and if something went wrong and a true emergency "landing" had to take place, then a jury might face the fact of emergency landing out of flight from federal air space.

2. This topic thread aims to have flight endings be on the sea or on platforms on the sea. Starting at sea and landing on land forms another interesting topic space. Likewise, starting flight on land and ending the flight on the sea or on a platform on the sea forms another activity space. Sea-to-sea HG can benefit from ideas developed from the other concerned spaces. But sea-to-sea HG or OHG (ocean hang gliding) has its own peculiar challenges. OHG does not need to concern with land property rights, as land is not used in the flight operation

3. Notice that kite boarders who launch their wings and themselves up into the air for gliding-kite glides are hanging gliding as they glide back to the water. Such activity seems to be a subset of OHG, as the pilot and wing are on the ocean and then launch to the federal skies and then land back down often on the same sea surface; their board or foil wing might go up with them when they launch for their hanging gliding jump. While in flight the system is a gliding kite system with pilot tethered to the wing; using a hang glider wing in flight is also a gliding kite system with the pilot tethered to the HG. But until designs and systems make ditching into sea for HGs more safe and enjoyable, we stand open for developments to lower pain and heighten joy. Note that a kiteboarding system is a vessel when beyond certain limits: https://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/wo ... ns/479.pdf

4. OHG hopefully will keep a pristine safety record. Avoid having to be rescued! Hang gliders in OHG operations might use natural winds for natural ambient kited launch; the anchoring might be a fixed anchor to seafloor, or a water parachute sea anchor, or an anchored barge, or a boat powered or not. Self-kited launching in ambient wind of a HG wing slated for release to free flight may catch thermals at sea or downdrafts at sea. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ ... .2018.0687 Clouds at sea are often the telling of thermals at sea. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/image ... e-atlantic

5. Lee-wave lift formed by effects of some islands during certain wind conditions may provide record OHG flights.

6. Converting an OHG HG wing to a sailboat will probably interest some OHG participants.

7. Crossing the Pacific Ocean via OHG while living off the food obtained at sea, perhaps supplemented with vitamins from land-based operations may interest some adventuring spirits. Weeks? Months?

8. OHG may serve science research: open subtopic.

9. OHG challenge set is huge. Describe a challenge as one might. E.g., OHG from west of Catalina to east of Catalina by OHG over Catalina Island. Similarly for any island.

10. Solo verses team OHG? Teamwork can join talents, resources, tasks. Teamwork may seem sooner for success. Solo OHG may be further out in time.

11. Inflatable landing platforms?

12. Landing on boats (ships to small boats).

13. http://energykitesystems.net/Lift/Launc ... index.html

14. https://www.aviationweather.ws/097_Sea_ ... oaring.php
Last edited by JoeF on Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:37 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Ocean Hang Gliding ... OHG

Postby Craig Muhonen » Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:02 pm

To pursue the topic of ocean launch and landing at TPGP.
Our HG pilot at TPGP could also be broadcasting directly with the ground and then say, "I've got to PEE and besides, I want to talk to the "flight director" about the incredible amount of money being made at this public park, and the overcrowded and sometimes very unsafe conditions, with a free lease to boot.
Along with videos, A recorded conversation from HG pilot to flight director during the flight, would be quite interesting and be part of any future jury to look at. If HG and PG were ever to face a jury, how would you pick them? Bob found out in the trial against him, although it had nothing to do with PG safety,
and everything to do with a companies one person, negative emotions against an "activist" private person, who just wanted a flying council to be reinstated at the city. A diverse flying council at the historic glider park, what a concept.
"PEERS", give me a break, the "P" is for paragliding, and the "S" is for $$$.
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Re: Ocean Hang Gliding

Postby Bill Cummings » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:02 pm

JoeF wrote:Craig, ... thanks.
1. Landing by plan would be distinct from landing via emergency. A jury might easily surmise that a landing was by design, not emergency, especially with our notes in this forum at their hand! Boat towing hang gliders to altitude is a well developed technology; the kiting of a hang glider wing and pilot for release to free flight is historical and contemporary. Experienced team members at both ends of the line are important. The lift zone at Torrey cliffs is federal air space. The leased parcel at TPGP seems to be a limited parcel; there seems to be land outside the leased parcel that belongs to UCSD, like the fixed-wing landing strip; I am not up to speed on the conditions of parcels just north of the Salk Institute. But if a flight plan was OHG (ocean to ocean hang gliding) was practiced and recorded well, and if something went wrong and a true emergency "landing" had to take place, then a jury might face the fact of emergency landing out of flight from federal air space.

2. This topic thread aims to have flight endings be on the sea or on platforms on the sea. Starting at sea and landing on land forms another interesting topic space. Likewise, starting flight on land and ending the flight on the sea or on a platform on the sea forms another activity space. Sea-to-sea HG can benefit from ideas developed from the other concerned spaces. But sea-to-sea HG or OHG (ocean hang gliding) has its own peculiar challenges. OHG does not need to concern with land property rights, as land is not used in the flight operation

3. Notice that kite boarders who launch their wings and themselves up into the air for gliding-kite glides are hanging gliding as they glide back to the water. Such activity seems to be a subset of OHG, as the pilot and wing are on the ocean and then launch to the federal skies and then land back down often on the same sea surface; their board or foil wing might go up with them when they launch for their hanging gliding jump. While in flight the system is a gliding kite system with pilot tethered to the wing; using a hang glider wing in flight is also a gliding kite system with the pilot tethered to the HG. But until designs and systems make ditching into sea for HGs more safe and enjoyable, we stand open for developments to lower pain and heighten joy. Note that a kiteboarding system is a vessel when beyond certain limits: https://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/wo ... ns/479.pdf

4. OHG hopefully will keep a pristine safety record. Avoid having to be rescued! Hang gliders in OHG operations might use natural winds for natural ambient kited launch; the anchoring might be a fixed anchor to seafloor, or a water parachute sea anchor, or an anchored barge, or a boat powered or not. Self-kited launching in ambient wind of a HG wing slated for release to free flight may catch thermals at sea or downdrafts at sea. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ ... .2018.0687 Clouds at sea are often the telling of thermals at sea. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/image ... e-atlantic

5. Lee-wave lift formed by effects of some islands during certain wind conditions may provide record OHG flights.

6. Converting an OHG HG wing to a sailboat will probably interest some OHG participants.

7. Crossing the Pacific Ocean via OHG while living off the food obtained at sea, perhaps supplemented with vitamins from land-based operations may interest some adventuring spirits. Weeks? Months?

8. OHG may serve science research: open subtopic.

9. OHG challenge set is huge. Describe a challenge as one might. E.g., OHG from west of Catalina to east of Catalina by OHG over Catalina Island. Similarly for any island.

10. Solo verses team OHG? Teamwork can join talents, resources, tasks. Teamwork may seem sooner for success. Solo OHG may be further out in time.

11. Inflatable landing platforms?

12. Landing on boats (ships to small boats).

13. http://energykitesystems.net/Lift/Launc ... index.html

14. https://www.aviationweather.ws/097_Sea_ ... oaring.php

How far out in front of Torrey Pines does the the restricted airspace go and what is the altitude restriction?
Tow boat recommendation (from a water tow pilot.) are:
1) 16 foot long V-hull.
2) 75 horsepower minimum.
3) power pitch propeller.
4) plastic horizontal planing fin bolted to the lower unit.
5) gas tank(s) and deep cycle battery moved to the front of the boat to offset pilot and glider weight
in the back (Stern).
6) Glider nose release with a rope running from the release to the bow eye.
7) A nose-over stop to keep the glider from clobbering someone.
8) A release cord from the nose of the glider within reach of the driver.
9) Windspeed meter mounted on top the boat windshield. (Pilot and driver both can see it.)
10) A launching yoke with hand holds and quarter inch safety pins over top of both sides of the base tube.
( some more nit picky ideas for winch/reel and static towing.)
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Re: Ocean Hang Gliding ... OHG

Postby Craig Muhonen » Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:13 am

The Nit Picky Ewok's Catapult
Bill, how much "energy" would it take to "Catapult" a Predator with Chris's slimed down body on board? And Bob, would you want to be the "Broadcaster", or our HG pilot? This could be fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyTRtyMgzyA
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Re: Ocean Hang Gliding ... OHG

Postby Chris McKeon » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:45 am

I believe that the time might very well come, heck Maybe it will be this Year even when John and I go to the Point. I saw Yea-Baby!
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Re: Ocean Hang Gliding ... OHG

Postby Bill Cummings » Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:31 pm

Somewhere on YouTube there is a posted video of a pilot launching
with a catapult using garage door springs.
The energy required would depend on a variety of things.
Density altitude, wing loading as you brought up, wind speed, slope angle,
other things as well. One person on the ground holding a rope to kite a person flying a hang glider
can be done if the glider is not ascending. If the glider is up kiting and maintaining altitude a person can pull
hand over hand pull on the tow line and take in the tow line.
A catapult or bungee launch is doable but the amount of energy required will depend on more than thrust or line tension. Some say that money is also important to take flight.
How much energy? I don’t know. But a catapult has worked.
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Re: Ocean Hang Gliding ... OHG

Postby Craig Muhonen » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:43 am

When you touch down at TPGP, everyone will know who you are.
one bad Hawk.png
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