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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby JoeF » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:43 pm

Funny how easily I came to the same windows of proactive opportunity as you did in the start of the bylaws. Now for motivation by members and the execs:

Help by all for this is invited: What will be the wins for all for the USHPA to weigh in to follow the bylaws to cure the rip? I will start with what Bob just began to name:

1. New and old pilots have a right to have their org to publish accurate reference to wing makers and the involved parts and safety information. Such is part of the bylaws, it seems. "I want to know the safety information about my Seedwings hang glider." Etc.

2. When the Brothers B do right, then they will receive positive support from many entities and perhaps win more of the market touched by the USHPA communications.

3. USHPA may be able to avoid being listed in a class action suit around trade mark confusion; supporting ignorance and confusion that costs a manufacturer after knowing about the problem may bring court losses. Instead a big win may occur if the USHPA fulfills its duty to members to help cure the deep painful rip regarding one of its key manufacturers of wings (let alone the profound legacy from Robert Trampenau).

4. Avoid the high impact of loss of integrity in doing nothing for Seedwings and its Robert Trampenau. The USHPA risks loss of credibility over its bylaws. What new manufacturer will be able to trust USHPA? Instead, herein is an opportunity for USHPA to deeply fulfill its bylaws and be as far proactive as possible. The USHPA could lead summit digital meetings in the open and gather associations from around the world and all manufacturers to aid in resolving the rip. Go for a big win.

5. The USHPA could involve openly and spell out any and all steps it may do to help resolve the rip.

7. Warning: THE FOLLOWING Link is merely to illustrate misdirection; click it to experience: Get a great hang glider here: Wills Wing. How did that feel? On balance let us give the URL of the rightful owner of Wills Wings: http://www.willswing.com Now on that aeianne.com site, what if you also saw "Wills Wing" and incidentlally hidden in the site some effort to have a legal status in Austria while fully confusing the hang gliding community in many ways?

8. ...PLEASE CONTINUE , there must be many win-wins that could be defined
...
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby JoeF » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:55 pm

Ultra Vires Acts: Why Nonprofits Must Follow Their Articles & Bylaws
http://tinyurl.com/WhyUSHPAmustFollowItsBylaws
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:25 pm

JoeF wrote:Funny how easily I came to the same windows of proactive opportunity as you did in the start of the bylaws.

Great minds ... ;)

I don't know all the facts on this, but here's what I think everyone would agree on:

1. It is not good for two different hang gliding manufacturers to use the same name.
2. It is not good for the sport of hang gliding to have a dispute like this dragging on.

Now do those facts justify USHPA hiring a lawyer and going to court to settle this? No. I don't think so. It's not primarily their battle. But USHPA could simply make those same two statements and offer themselves as an avenue to help resolve the matter ... without taking any sides. That would show leadership and a proactive approach to the hang gliding community that they claim to represent.

They could start with a nice letter asking to hear the arguments on both sides. That's not too much to ask, and yet USHPA won't even do that.

Why am I not surprised? Is there anyone reading these words who expected more from USHPA? Seriously?
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby JoeF » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:23 am

The issue will not be dragged out, if each pilot and entity takes a serious stand to resolve the issue.
Some voting and postion stating will be supported here:
VOTE--state your position => http://www.energykitesystems.net/WHGA/ethics/index.html
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:42 pm

Hi Joe,

For the record, I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't know either of the parties, and so my first step is to gather the facts. Here's a message that I just sent via email:

In a message to seedwings@tirol.com on March 7, 2011, Bob Kuczewski wrote wrote:Hello,

My name is Bob Kuczewski, and I am a hang gliding and paragliding pilot in the United States.

I am writing because I have been hearing about a concern over your use of the name "Seedwings" for your products, and I would like to know your company's position.

I have been asked to endorse a potential boycott of your products, and I would like to be sure that I've given your company a fair chance to reply to these concerns.

Can you please send me the name and email contact for anyone in your company who is willing to discuss this?

Thanks in advance,
Bob Kuczewski

I also copied and pasted that same message into their "email" page on the web:

Seedwings_Contact_Info_small.png
Seedwings_Contact_Info_small.png (66.67 KiB) Viewed 5246 times

It's important that we all try to do the right thing ... even when it isn't our ox being gored.

Thanks for your selfless dedication to this, Joe.
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby Dennis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:44 pm

Perhaps a banner is in order appended to sig-lines.

"This message is erroneously brought to you by SEEDWINGS, We didn't just steel the product, we stole the name"!


or

"Seedwings faked, USHPA snored".
Dennis D
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:11 am

Dennis wrote:"This message is erroneously brought to you by SEEDWINGS, We didn't just steel the product, we stole the name"!

or

"Seedwings faked, USHPA snored".


:srofl:

It's good to have you back Dennis!!! I hope to see you at Torrey for this month's Second Sunday (March 13th, 2011). Bring your paraglider and maybe you can get in some kiting practice. :thumbup:
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby JoeF » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:16 am

For record, this was offered on the online form of the SE site contact-us active form:

editor@hanggliderhistory.com
March 12, 2011
Request for news of your changed company name.

Please inform us when you change your company name and stop using "Seedwings" in any hang glider commerce, except as approved by Robert Trampenau, per your contract within our cherished hang gliding community worldwide. When we receive confirmation of your news and validate such by Internet changes, we will begin to install high support of your company and products throughout the hang gliding community in scores of means.
Thank you,
Joe Faust
==========================End of entry to the online contact form.
Some Austrian notes:
From their site is one of hundreds of examples of the problem:
"During more than 20 years our designers have kept refining the gliders ensuring that Seedwings gliders provide state of the art technology and safety."
====================================
Wikipedia: "For many years now Austria has made an active contribution to the United Nations peace-keeping missions." How will Austria face the conduct of SE as regards peace-keeping?
=====================================
Austria has an embassy in many countries. Each country impacted by the broken word having an Austrian embassy may be contacted directly by hang glider pilots wanting to initiate a solving process; just an idea at the moment.

In USA: The Embassy of Austria is built on a 38 acre plot in Northwest Washington and was officially opened on October 26, 1991.
====================
Per capita Austria is now one of the richest countries in the world.

Shall we ask all the Austrians to take a position on the SE-S matter? Just an idea at the momentl.
====================
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:24 am

I recently received an email message from Joe Faust requesting community support to restore the trade name of "Seedwings" to Bob Trampenau. I believe I've read the contract on this matter and I've attempted to discuss it with both sides. At this time, I feel that Joe's cause is just, and I have responded to the group with the following message:

On March 27th, 2011, Bob Kuczewski wrote:Hello Fellow Pilots,

I am not an expert on the matter that Joe describes, but I do believe that each of us in the hang gliding community has a small obligation to help provide fairness and justice for all the participants in our sport - as our time allows.

The 200+ people who joined the Torrey Hawks helped us turn around a very abusive situation at Torrey Pines. Many did no more than offer their names, but they made a difference just the same.

I have recently had the pleasure to meet with Mr. Trampenau and I have read the contract that's been posted regarding this issue. I have also tried to contact the other side with limited results. From what I can tell, I must endorse Joe's suggested solution which would restore Mr. Trampenau's exclusive use of the name "Seedwings" and I would encourage the other company to choose a suitable name of their own.

Thanks for your time.

Bob Kuczewski
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Re: Seedwings ...

Postby astronaut » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:14 am

Here is what I heard.

An employee from Seedwings US came to Seedwings Europe to teach them to make sails.

Later Seedwings US refused to expand the product line an only offered the glider in one size although the European market were demaning different sizes of the same glider.

The Bangheri brothers together with the Seedwings US employee developed a new and smaller version of the Sensor. The first so called "self developed" glider.

They offered it back to Seedwings US for them to manufacture but they refused.

The contract ended and Seedwings Europe decided to become independent.

They had a contract in which they were offered to continue using the Seedwings name if they in return paid a royalty.

The Bangheri brothers now had a 6 year old successful company based on the Seedwings name. So they offered to pay royalty but Mr. Trampenau refused to receive it and said they couldn't use the name. But according to his own contract they could if they just paid.

So they build their company around the name Seedwings. They did so because they had a contract saying they could continue using the name by paying royalty. And when they wanted to it was refused. So Mr. Trampenau somewhat broke the contract himself.

So I guess they went their seperate ways with their two different approaches to how to meet market demand. It's pretty obvious today who made the right business decision.

At least that's what I heard.
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