Personal Journals about Hang Gliding

Electrostatic flight

Postby Rick Masters » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:22 pm

Image

Joe, this bud's for you.
From Discover Magazine
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-bri ... .VJd8QADWc

Gossamer spiders are best known for their bizarre “ballooning” stunts, but it’s only this week that we’ve learned how they pull them off.

They disperse by spinning strands of silk into the open air, which allows them to float through the atmosphere miles above the surface of the earth and out to sea far beyond the reach of land.

These 8-legged kites can apparently survive 25 days without food during their aeronautical journeys.

Even Darwin was baffled by their methods—as he wrote in his diary on October 31, 1832, from his ship off the coast of Argentina,

“In the evening all the ropes were coated & fringed with Gossamer web. I caught some of the aeronaut spiders, which must have come at least 60 miles: How inexplicable is the cause which induces these small insects, as it now appears in both hemispheres, to undertake their aerial excursions.”

Darwin conjectured that unnoticeable thermal currents could explain the initial launch, but since the strands repelled each other, he assumed there was electrostatic force at work, too. But since the 1830s, most scientists have accepted wind to be the force of choice for directing spider flight. In 1874 a study reported that a spider “patiently waits for a breath of air to waft it across the vacant space,” and a hundred years after that, scientists still thought “aeronautic behavior is dependent upon wind currents of specific velocity and direction.”

But this week a researcher in Hawaii determined that it wasn’t wind’s thermal currents that gave the spiders lift. Their flight, he determined, is actually electrostatic. Some of that charge comes from the electrostatic field of Earth’s atmosphere. Some charge comes from friction between the silk and dry air. The rest is thought to result from the spinning process and the launch surface itself. As described in the paper published recently in arXiv:

The presence of this charge will lead both to mutual repulsion among the emitted strands, and an additional overall induced electrostatic force on the spider, providing a component of lift that is independent of convection or aerodynamic effects.

As reported in The Physics arXiv blog:

This idea accounts for all the previously unexplained ballooning phenomena. For example, it explains how spiders achieve such a high velocity in conditions of little or no wind. It also explains how such large spiders are able to generate lift. These produce several strands that each acquire charge and generate lift. And it explains why these strands fan out from each other—because their negative charges repel.

Now all we have to do is figure out how to boost the charge so humans, too, can fly via spider silk.
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more from National Geographic
http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/20 ... ry-solved/
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This is a great blog:
THE PHYSICS ARXIV BLOG
https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-bl ... 345796bba4
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Spider Flight - U of Wisconsin Field Station
http://www4.uwm.edu/fieldstation/natura ... flight.cfm
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Re: Electrostatic flight

Postby JoeF » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:12 pm

Super, Rick. I gave strong link from a topic thread in AirborneWindEnergy
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Air ... ages/16421

We have some topics there on kiting or ballooning spiders.
Image
Image

Very welcome is your input, Rick.

NEW LZ for PG: Somehow have LZ with high electrostatic charge. And have the PG be of same charge. As PG arrives, the repulsion might soften the landing. This might be a means for the collapsed PG. Challenge is to have the charges when wanted and at sufficient strength to make a difference. :crazy:

Lift,
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Re: Electrostatic flight

Postby Rick Masters » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:22 pm

Note that this theory or discovery of passive electrostatic force explains

how spiders achieve such a high velocity in conditions of little or no wind.


That means that the spider has an "engine."

It also explains how such large spiders are able to generate lift.


This is a knockout. These passive electrostatic forces are powerful enough to lift a spider that would otherwise be too heavy to be carried airborne by the threads without a charge. And these are natural, passive forces. What if we built a lightweight little wing and gave it active electrostatic forces with antenna or metallic threads powered by, say, a solar cell and ultracapacitor to provide a charge and hopefully a measurable bit of propulsion. If there was any evidence at all, the idea would be worth pursuing. (Is that why UFOs always hum?)

The next step would be to weave an antenna into the fabric of a hang glider or paraglider sail - although the less drag the airfoil and associated structures produce, the easier it will be to measure and utilize any propulsive force. That force, if measurable, would lower the sink rate, perhaps only within a range of speed. This would have to be measured in a wind tunnel.
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Re: Electrostatic flight

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:11 am

Very enlightening (even electrifying) topic Rick!!!
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Re: Electrostatic flight

Postby Rick Masters » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:02 am

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Re: Electrostatic flight

Postby JoeF » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:42 pm

Doug Selsam of http://www.selsam.com/ wrote:Nice post on the electrostatic balloon spider webs.
I had an experience when I was 5 years old that changed my life. It explains why I know there are simple things that degreed scientists are clueless about: I was 5 years old in upstate NY, slept outside in a tent with a neighbor kid. We woke up before the sun and went out to play. As the sun was rising, we started seeing shimmering blobs slowly falling from the sky, changing colors as they fell. We tried to catch them but they disappeared like a bubble popping the moment our fingers touched them. They also disappeared when they hit the wet grass blades, but we noticed a very thin spider-webby substance left strung between the grass blades. The spider-webby stuff in the grass blades disappeared in your fingers if you tried to collect it. Many years later I contacted the other kid and he remembered it like yesterday.

Of course we told my parents what we had seen and of course as we already knew, they didn't believe it. What adult is going to believe a 5-year-old telling them about shimmering colored blobs falling from the sky that disappear when you touch them?

Nobody could explain what we had seen. That was my entry into realizing that I knew things that nobody else knew, and at 5 years old had already experienced something that no scientist could explain. I realized I could probably figure out things that nobody else could.

As the years went by I arrived at an explanation: Balloon spider silk in the still morning air was collecting condensation and falling from the water drops' weight, As the strands fell they formed mats, spread apart by electrostatic force. By the time we saw the mats of silk near the ground, the sun was making rainbows through the drops, which we interpreted as the blobs changing color as they changed position relative to our eyes.

When we touched the blobs, they disappeared like bubbles popping, because we disturbed their electrostatic equilibrium, draining the charge - the wet strands stopped mutually repelling. The blobs collapsed and seemed to vanish.

And of course when they hit the grass blades, they also vanished as the electrostatic charge was instantly drained, but we were able to see the super-fine threads because they still had micro-water-drops on them. But the webs themselves were so ephemeral that they seemed to disappear as we rubbed the water drops away.

I have since read about this phenomena several times. One account was in the same area, across Lake Ontario in Canada, in the same year, by a ship's captain. Same exact story down to every detail, except no grass blades on the ship.

Other similar stories include single giant purple blobs that fall in yards, made of a substance that disappears when touched. The characteristic they all have in common is they disappear in your hands when you try to collect samples, or evaporate from jars if any substance is collected. The overall name for the phenomenon is "Angel Hair" and in many accounts it is related to UFO sightings. Often, people see a UFO spewing silk strands out the back and they fall as anger hair, which disappears when touched. There seem to be a lot of these UFO/angel-hair accounts in Australia. The night before, we were convinced a UFO was watching us (watching too much TV) and I am puzzled to this day that most accounts of this angel hair phenomenon relate to UFO's and seldom mention the idea of spiders.

Anyway, when I saw the story of exactly what had happened to me in a book of "unexplained phenomenae" I realized that if I knew this one particular "unexplainable" phenomenon was real, maybe a lot of other weird stories off such phenomenae were also real, so I never laugh at any account of something unexplained, no matter how improbable it sounds. I know how it is to have something unexplainable happen and nobody believes you. But in my case, I think the spider explanation works, and some other witnesses and scientists have also applied a spider silk explanation to the angle hair phenomenae, but I had not heard anyone but me apply the electrostatic repulsuion principle to it until now.

So that is why, from 5 years old, I've always known the academics often simply don't know things that even a 5-year old can see. I realized at that young age "Science and "experts" do not always have the answers". In fact it is easy to see this: How many doctors spent their lives explaining how millions of ulcers were "caused by stress", until someone finally noticed they went away when people were put on antibiotiotics, being in fections caused by heliobacter pilori? How about decades of cardiologists recommending partially hydrogenated vegetable oils (margarine) as a cure for heart disease for decades on end? What about "Eggs, not as bad as we thought"? Extrapolate to "global warming" and all the rest: scientists are clueless at least half the time.

Since then my attitude is "I know things nobody else knows and sometimes the academics and experts, in at least one case, and probably others, have no clue". That's why you can hold up anyone from NASA to MIT and I laugh - maybe they know, maybe they don't. Perhaps half the time, they don't. I never heard them explaining angel hair. They all denied even "ball lightning" (also appearing in the same books of unexplained phenomenae as "angel hair") until video of it began to accumulate and they could deny no more. And yet the scientists dare to call others "deniers" while the entire process of science is to deny anything until it is proven.

I went on to predict that planets were everywhere back when "official science" seemed to think it was doubtful other stars even had planets, let alone life. I predicted life was everywhere in the universe, while "science" still maintained life might most probably only exist on Earth.

I understood the reason why we have an appendix, as a repository for beneficial bacteria (a "starter culture") long before academia ever figured that one out. For most of my life the story was "Nobody knows why we have an appendix". I really thought "how long can these supposedly smart people operate on infected appendixes before they figure out the reason they are filled with bacteria is because that is the purpose?"

I know lots of other stuff the academics are clueless about, such as why we have a chin, and of course a hundred easy ways to do AWE.

So if anyone wants to understand my humorously skeptical attitude toward academia, the electrostatic balloon spider silk phenomena is the root of it all. I knew about the electrostatic repulsion of balloon spider silk long before any "experts" ever even contemplated such a thing.

Feel free to pass along this info on the group if you wish.
:)


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Re: Electrostatic flight

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:37 am



"ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS"
The Declassified Report: Transcribed and Hereby Given to the World.
http://www.padrak.com/ine/INE24.html

Progress in Electrogravitics and Electrokinetics for Aviation and Space Travel
Thomas F. Valone
http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.o ... Valone.pdf
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