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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:44 am

OK! Bob tells me this is ready to go now. I thank him for going through a considerable effort to get all of the posts, from this forum and another forum, together in this one place. I'll try to keep up that coordination as time goes by.

BobK and i spent a lot of time on the phone yesterday with him wondering why I don't move ahead by making my own battens (WW doesn't have the tubing available yet). My main reason is that i wanted to avoid having to make them by modifying and utilizing certain Condor 330 battens. There are two reasons for this: first I'm lazy, second I wanted to be able to tell anyone who wants to build the Puffin how to get the battens from a commercial source and all I would have to supply would be the modification instructions. :thumbup:

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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:05 pm

Frank Colver wrote:BobK and i spent a lot of time on the phone yesterday with him wondering why I don't move ahead by making my own battens.

I guess my thinking is that the first iteration of this design will answer a lot of very important questions even if It's only an approximation to the design you really want in the end. Depending on those answers you may not need to go any further. If it does start looking promising, then you might have a lot more people interested in moving forward with it once you've got a working prototype.

So a "quick and dirty" prototype will be helpful for several reasons. Even if you end up throwing it away, that first prototype will help put everything in motion for the next version.
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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:23 am

Of course I agree with Bob's post, it's just common sense. However, I do have other projects going on and only so much shop space, so it's easy to put off the project that i don't have enough materials yet.

That said, I have collected a lot of the small hardware for the Puffin project.

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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby SamKellner » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:23 pm

Hi Frank,

If you need battens , I have ~50 of various sizes that I can give you if you just pay shipping.

:wave:
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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:48 pm

Hi Sam, thanks.

I am planning to use certain ones of the Condor 330 battens because of their very high camber. I'm intending for the Puffin to have a very slow and low sink glide using a high lift camber in the airfoil (pitch stabilizing that with a lot of reflex).

I'm guessing that you don't have any of the C330 battens, since it was such a low production glider from WW. Since WW still has the bending jigs for those battens I'm wanting them to make me the ones i have ordered. Their problem is that they are getting slow delivery of 10mm, 7075, batten tubing which they use for most of their glider battens. My order is low priority compared to keeping their production running. :)

Thanks again,
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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby SamKellner » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:24 pm

Frank,

I have the Condor 330 for first day instruction, but no extra battens. The 330 battens are longer than most.

Keep us posted on the progress.

Sam :wave:
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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:09 pm

Back to the future! i'll explain that:

When we were still covering hang gliders with ploy traps DuPont invented a poly material that was tough in all directions and had less stretch than a poly trap. It was called Tyvek. Joe Faust first brought it to my attention. I called DuPont to find out how I could buy some and was told that it was only available from them and i would need to buy a railroad car load as minimum purchase - price in the thousands of $. That was the end of my interest in Tyvek.

Now to the present: We now see it on most new construction of buildings and homes. My local Home Depot has 9 rolls in stock. There is also a fantastic tape, that i have used for many other things, that is designed to stick to it very well and the tape stands up to UV radiation for years.

So, last night I looked it up on the web to see what size it comes in. It's a roll that is 9 feet wide by 150 feet long (1350 sq ft). The material weight is 1.8 oz per sq yd so on my glider this adds up to a total of about 3.4 lbs of sail. Very much in the ball park of a light dacron sail.

I am now seriously considering making the sail for the first go around on the Puffin out of Tyvek. At 9 ft wide it will only require one short span direction seam near the center and the center joining seam. Tyvek tape will do that job.

Since first flights will be at Dockweiler it will hark back to a long tradition of plastic tarp gliders flown there. However, the frame won't be made of bamboo (unless Wills waits too long to get me the aluminum). :lolno:

Still waiting for the aluminum :cry:

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Basic Trainer, sail & battens design.jpg
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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:15 pm

Frank Colver wrote:Still waiting for the aluminum :cry:

That's why God made bamboo.
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