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Re: Franks

Postby Frank Colver » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:09 pm

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Re: Franks

Postby Frank Colver » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:09 pm

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Re: Franks

Postby Frank Colver » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:10 pm

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Re: Franks

Postby Frank Colver » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:10 pm

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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:18 am

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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:59 pm

From "A BASIC TRAINER DESIGN FOR TEACHING HANG GLIDING" on
hanggliding.org:

jlatorre on Jul 30, 2019 wrote:It's been a while since you posted, Frank. Any progress?

dew98765 on Jul 30, 2019 wrote:Yeah Frank,
You have us hanging. . . .

dew98765 on Jul 30, 2019 wrote:BTW, if you get desperate for a sale you might contact Martin at Somerset Sails. He used to work at U.P. and has a shop ~ he offered help on my Comet:

martin@somersetsails.com

Thanks for asking, guys. I'm still waiting for my tubing order to WW to be filled. Their orders for tubing have all been shorted by the mill, so they haven't wanted to spare any of what they do get.

I had hoped to at least get them to make my battens and I would cut each of those to length and then measure the total length of the tubes (as if the battens were flat) so I could make an attempt at a sail layout drawing. However, the 10mm batten tubing was even more in critical short supply at Wills.

I sent all of my 1/5 scale model drawings to Bill Watson after he expressed a desire to build the model. If he does build it, I would bet that he makes it RC weight shift controllable. Just guessing here, but knowing Bill it's a definite possibility. I didn't want to put that much time and effort into the model but it would be fantastic if he did. The uncontrolled model served my purpose of seeing that it was pitch / roll stable. But it would be useful to see how it behaves in a weight shift turn. In order to use weight shift he would have to use a more flexible sail than I did. The covering on my model is pretty rigid.

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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:07 am

From "A BASIC TRAINER DESIGN FOR TEACHING HANG GLIDING" on
hanggliding.org:

dew98765 on Aug 08, 2019 wrote:Frank,

Have you given this angle any consideration with your "Basic-Trainer" design work?

At present Joe is working on a 5' packable HG for using public busses to flying sites.

copy&paste from other thread

While setup would take a little longer it seems like it would be a big plus if beginners could easily transport the "trainer" around without having to invest in a roof-rack.

red on Aug 08, 2019 wrote:Dew,

Just IMHO; I like Frank's concepts of light weight and easy assembly, as a start. Any new design can usually be improved upon, once the design itself is proven, but it is often a mistake to try to build the ultimate of any design from the first. I have no doubt that lots of proven designs would be fair candidates for the "five-foot pack" (150cm) ideal. I hope that these proven designs can be developed along those lines as well. For now, we do have the Finsterwalder gliders as examples, somewhat dated, and slow to assemble from their ~190cm short pack, but no need for a rack.

TjW on Aug 09, 2019 wrote:Out of curiosity, does the length limitation include ribs/battens? A five-foot root chord seems pretty short.

The 5' packable HG is not the subject of this thread. My HG basic trainer (the subject of this thread) will not be 5' packable. The person who can answer questions about the 5' packable HG is Joe Faust. sg has banned him from this forum. If you wish to follow his development of the 5' packable glider you will have to either go to another forum, the URL of which is not allowed to be listed here.

Or contact sg, the moderator of this forum, and ask him to reinstate Joe Faust, so that you and others can follow the progress of the 5' packable HG.

That's the only information I have at this time, sorry. 
 
This thread needs to stay with the basic trainer and not wander too far astray. 
 
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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:10 am

From "A BASIC TRAINER DESIGN FOR TEACHING HANG GLIDING" on
hanggliding.org:

dew98765 on Aug 09, 2019 wrote:
Frank wrote:This thread needs to stay with the basic trainer and not wander too far astray.

I agree. And my apologies. . . .

Harp on Aug 26, 2019 wrote:Hi Frank,

My name is Marcus Harper, most friends call me "Harp". I am new to the sport, and forum. You post about the trainer caught my eye. I would like to lend my assistance to the project. I am a Mechanical Engineer, specifically specializing in product design. To start I can try to source some compatible tubing other than WW's supply, that is if you don't mind this newbie asking a few dumb questions every now and then.

Cheers,

Harp

blindrodie Aug 26, 2019 wrote:
I would like to lend my assistance to the project.


Nice!!!!!

Thanks Markus, for your offer of assistance. 

I have already fabricated and collected a number of components and materials for the glider but yes, it is WW's tubing that is holding it up at this time. However, I don't want to change to another size, alloy, or wall thickness at this time, so I'm sticking with them for now. The 7075, .032 wall, tubing that they use is pretty ideal for this project.

I have an inquiry into Mike Meir, at WW right now that I'm waiting for a reply.

Yes, ask any questions you wish. There are other ways to approach this design and if the glider works as intended improvements can be made, if someone wants to build more of them. For instance, my less than 40 lbs weight goal is always kept in mind in the design and materials but is not the highest priority in this 1st off model.

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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:14 am

From "A BASIC TRAINER DESIGN FOR TEACHING HANG GLIDING" on
hanggliding.org:

dew98765 Aug 30, 2019 wrote:Frank,

I'm looking forward to how your design idea comes to "reality" 

What you've shown of the frame and battens at this point looks very practical for some of us to build. I like that DIY approach. However the "sail" part is unnerving . . . 

Keep it up ~ I'm looking toward to how this progresses.

dew98765 on Aug 31, 2019 wrote:Frank,

The 7075, .032 wall, tubing that they use is pretty ideal for this project.

Not sure what OD you are needing and I appreciate your connection there with WW. But if you get to a point where you are looking for other-sources for the 7075 you could check with Future-Metals. I see they have the following aluminum 7075 tubing in the following sizes:
OD Wall
----------------------
0.312 x .032
0.375 x .032
0.625 x .032

http://www.futuremetals.com/products/tu ... inum-tube/

The main structural tubing is in metric sizes but they are in inches: about: 1-3 /4", 2.00" & 2.05". The battens are 10mm (about 0.4") which is closer to the sizes you list but I want WW to actually bend the battens for me, since they have the forms for the Condor 330 batten cambers.

Thanks,
Frank
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Re: Basic trainer design for beginning HG flight.

Postby Frank Colver » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:16 am

From "A BASIC TRAINER DESIGN FOR TEACHING HANG GLIDING" on
hanggliding.org:

blindrodie on Sep 03, 2019 wrote:You won't know exactly how your airframe deflects until it is loaded, so sail shape will be difficult to define.

Frank have you considered mounting the Puffin to a trailer or taking it to the beach and mounting it stationary in some way to study the billow and flex of a test sail? Just thinking out loud this morning...

red on Sep 03, 2019 wrote:
blindrodie wrote:You won't know exactly how your airframe deflects until it is loaded, so sail shape will be difficult to define.

Frank have you considered mounting the Puffin to a trailer or taking it to the beach and mounting it stationary in some way to study the billow and flex of a test sail? Just thinking out loud this morning... 

Frank,

If you do that with a trailer, you might as well pull the trailer down an empty road, so you will have absolute control of the wind speeds. Bring yer video camera guy, 'cause you may not see *everything* that happens in real time.

dew98765 on Oct 17, 2019 wrote:Frank,

Any news or updates on your "Basic Trainer" project?
Looking forward to anything you have to share!

Dew

Still waiting for WW to fill my order for 7075 thin wall tubing and battens. 

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