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New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey - June 1st, 2014 https://ushawks.org:443/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1552	Page 1 of 2

Author:	eagle [ Thu May 08, 2014 9:43 am ]
Post subject:	New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey - June 1st, 2014
ALL PILOTS MUST FLY WITH A RADIO AS OF JUNE 1st ~ ~ Please HELP ~ Don't Let this Happen ~ The Glider Port Staff Using ER Helicopter approach as an Excuse to Clear the Air.... What about a BLACK BALL FLAG ~ Like always (Hasn't Been Tried) or teaching general KNOWN Aviation safety Rules .... ~ LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE EXPECTING MORE CRASHES ~ The Real reason is So they GROUND PILOTS (Not Legal). As they single-out anyone who speaks OUT or disagrees ~ these RULES are Selective (Basically Unfair) THE GLIDER PORT STAFF BREAK's ALL THE RULE"S BUT GO FREE ~ THEY DON"T PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH ~ EVEN IF THEY DID the reason for this Rule is to GROUND Pilots Unfairly ~ They must be selling radios ~ ~ New BS Torrey Pines Glider Port Rule's ~ Attachment: Radio Radio.jpg [ 5.08 KiB \| Viewed 10043 times ]

Author:	Bob Kuczewski [ Fri May 09, 2014 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Radio Rule at Torrey
This new "radio rule" will be a disaster. You're exactly right Eagle, they will use this rule to single out pilots they don't like and eventually ground them. They claim it's for safety. Let's think about that ... There have been at least TWO recent (and separate) incidents where students under direct radio control of the gliderport staff have collided into each other. It turns out that the mid-air collision safety record for pilots under the concessionaire's "radio control" is far worse than for pilots flying on their own!! Furthermore, the concessionaire has a very clear conflict of interest (remember the Tandem Right of Way Rule?) in administering any such "radio control" of pilots. So if they want to institute a mandatory "radio control rule" then it cannot be administered by the concessionaire. If they want to pay a San Diego lifeguard to manage air traffic, then that might be acceptable. But the accident record of this concessionaire - with its own "radio controlled" students - demonstrates how dangerous this would be for all of us. This is a bad rule, and we should work to oppose it. Thanks for posting this Eagle!!!!

Author:	steveweston [ Fri May 09, 2014 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey
Flying 47 years now and have yet to see an uncontrolled airport requiring a radio. Let's see: Radio. Transponder. ELT. Parachute. Im a telling you, In my day Torrey was a great place to show off. After working at many Gliderports, I found that there are hundreds of better places to fly. Ever gained 10k in a thermal ? Not at Torrey. I would think a one year of boycotting the Torrey Pines site will make the city rethink their position. P.S. The only near miss I ever had was at a controlled airport. The control tower operator put a Bonanza in the exact spot I occupied.. FWIW

Author:	Bob Kuczewski [ Fri May 09, 2014 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey
Thanks for the post Steve!!!!! steveweston wrote: I would think a one year of boycotting the Torrey Pines site will make the city rethink their position. I wish you were right. Unfortunately, there's nothing that the Torrey Concessionaire (and their buddies in the City) would like more than to see all hang glider pilots (and possibly even all non-student paragliding pilots) boycott Torrey ... forever. They make their money selling tandem rides all day long. They mostly sell PG tandem flights at $150 per flight - $50 for the tandem pilot and $100 for this guy: Attachment: File comment: Robin Marien - Torrey Pines Concessionaire Finger1s.jpeg [ 58.63 KiB \| Viewed 10021 times ] They make the vast majority of their money selling these rides and a smaller amount selling "training packages" consisting of lessons and equipment to new pilots. Once you're P3 or above (or a hang glider pilot of any rating) they'd just as soon have you not show up. That's what we've been fighting for years at that site. steveweston wrote: Flying 47 years now and have yet to see an uncontrolled airport requiring a radio. Good observation. I wonder if we can use FAA regulations to counter this? steveweston wrote: In my day Torrey was a great place to show off. After working at many Gliderports, I found that there are hundreds of better places to fly. I wouldn't argue with that. But there aren't hundreds of better places to drive to, set up, fly, and top land within the limits of a large city like San Diego. Funston is the only other one I know of. Point of the Mountain is somewhat similar, but it's still not as convenient or accessible to a large population as Torrey. steveweston wrote: P.S. The only near miss I ever had was at a controlled airport. The control tower operator put a Bonanza in the exact spot I occupied.. Good point. And I'll bet that control tower operator wasn't standing out in a busy landing zone with a radio in one hand and a cigarette in the other while training 3 PG students how to kite their paragliders. It is insane to put the concessionaire in charge of air traffic control at a site where they've already caused several accidents and have a conflict of interest to boot. Thanks again for the post Steve ... and Welcome again to the US Hawks. It's great to have you here!!!

Author:	JoeF [ Fri May 09, 2014 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey
Radio-controlled hang gliders is a very bad idea. Concessionaire does not have ownership rights of the air, only the ground space of their contract. Hang glider pilots may fly into the airspace without using the concessionaire land. Other gliders may fly into the airspace without using the concessionaire land. Hang glider pilots will come from far and near practiced in normal hang gliding tactics and disciplines without being radio-controlled devices. The hang glider pilots have full responsibility for VFR at all times; the concessionaire intrusion factor over radio is not part of of daylight hang gliding sport and recreation. Time to have no concessionaire at the Torrey cliffs.

Author:	steveweston [ Fri May 09, 2014 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey - June 1st, 2014
I have a zillion thoughts on this issue. The FAA doesn't want to be involved however when passengers are involved and especially on a Commercial ride the Feds do have plenty to say. The public is paying for a demonstration ride....?... Its Commercial, not just a dare devil carnival ride... Ride pilot qualifications For hire = Commercial, Flight reviews, hours of experience. (LOG BOOKS) If these guys are not current or qualified, maybe the local FSDO needs a call. I have found that the inspectors at SDFSDO are good and will listen. Ask them if the will do surveillance and ramp checks at Torrey Airport... The land at Torrey is City. The air is Federal. An aircraft in motion for flight IS under Federal control in the air OR on the ground....... Wish I could find my magic wand to help you all out on the problem....... its around here somewhere.... I ll look....... FWIW WTF over..............................

Author:	SamKellner [ Fri May 09, 2014 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey - June 1st, 2014
eagle wrote: They must be selling radios ~ and tandem rides

Author:	eagle [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey - June 1st, 2014
~ Good News ~ Yay Today the Mandatory Radio Notice was taken down ~ We know by Experience that this Could Change in a Moments Notice Its Called " GREED, CONTROL & POWER " for Profit . The Idea that a Group of RC Pilots can Control the Airspace must be ended ... We as Fellow Aviator's should try to Avoid their Airspace out of Courtesy. that would be Acceptable to Most ((( The One pilot in the Window Rule is Not Sustainable as the Sport Continues to Grow. Impossible ))) The Flight Director, also Abuses his Power to Ground Pilots ~ don't get in the Way of His Dollar ~ He Doesn't Mind, Threatening anyone's Rights or Safety . This is Not a Dictatorship ~ Cornering the market for the right to Fly tandem or instruct should be taken Away . The Flight director can't Fly a Hang glider himself ~ or even Understand what is Like to Fly through a Crowd ~ How Could he Delegate rules or Even be a Flight Director with Such Power ~ ~ FURTHERMORE ~ I will testify that the Flight Director and STAFF has been Aware of All these issues that I have addressed for Several YEARS NOW ~ Including the Destruction of OUR Hang gliding Area and Sport and the Drug Abuse Problem within His Staff. He Did Nothing About It ~ HE SHOULD LOSE HIS Lease & Position As a Flight director. Period. This Has been Allowed for Personal and Gain at OUR expense , time for NEW Glider-port Management The Truth HURTS ~ HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW ~

Author:	Bob Kuczewski [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey - June 1st, 2014
steveweston wrote: Wish I could find my magic wand to help you all out on the problem....... I think you already did Steve!!! I am quite certain that someone at Torrey is reading every word posted here on the Torrey Hawks forum. I suspect with your posts about contacting the FSDO and the posts from Eagle and everyone else, they saw the storm brewing and decided it wasn't worth it. That's the power of bringing hang glider pilots together in one forum. Thanks to everyone who's posted!!!! eagle wrote: ~ HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW ~ Better than ever!!! Eagle, you've found your voice ... and it is the voice of liberty!!! Thanks also to Sam and Joe for some great comments!!! That's working together for the sport!!! This topic is only about 37 hours old, and it's already my favorite topic on the entire forum ... because we all came together and made something happen. This is what the future hang gliding should look like!!!

Author:	steveweston [ Sat May 10, 2014 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Mandatory Radio Rule at Torrey - June 1st, 2014
Today I live in far away Arizona. Gave up the teaching thing but still conduct Flight Reviews on occasion. Other than that I m out...... But I still think and suggest a call to the SD FSDO at Montgomery Field. Just a question to the Inspector about Commercial rides in Paragliders. Tell them that you are thinking of selling rides and what do you need to be legal ? When you have that documented information watch the Torrey concession like a "Hawk" A "Torrey Hawk"

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