Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:29 pm

Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

We're almost done!!!

Here's our current Terms of Service with a highlight of what remains to be ratified:

By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.


Initially, I was hoping we could just pass this along with the other sections without any changes. However, in a conversation with Bill earlier today, he pointed out that allowing the editing of a post is exactly what many of us have not liked about some of the other national forums. Bill's objection is exactly why I am soooooo glad that each of you has volunteered for this Board. I think we get better results with all of us participating. Thanks Bill!!!    :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

So based on Bill's comment, I'd like to propose something like this (we can work on the language):

Bob's suggestion ... not an official motion wrote:Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” has the right to remove, move or close any topic or post at any time should we see fit. You also agree that the US Hawks Hang Gliding Association has the right to modify the text of any post as long as the modification includes a clear announcement as to the scope and reason for the changes.

As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

With regard to the need to edit posts, let me give an easy example. Let's say that a US Hawks member copies copyrighted information into their post in a manner that violates the original copyright. Let's further say that the US Hawks is contacted by the owner of the copyrighted material who demands that the infringing material be removed within 24 hours or they will file a law suit. And let's further say that the person who posted the copyrighted material is unavailable (doesn't respond to phone calls, email, or PM). Under such circumstances, I would like our Board to be able to replace the copyrighted material with a statement like "NOTE: Copyrighted material was removed from this location of this post at the request of the copyright owner."

Now the procedures for how and when we allow such an edit (along with appropriate checks and balances) are still to be worked out. But I believe our terms of service have to allow us to do something like that under certain conditions. Otherwise we'd be violating the terms that we agreed to with each of our members.

With those thoughts, let's have a discussion, introduce a few motions, and vote to finish up our Terms of Service. :thumbup:
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby Bill Cummings » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:15 am

Joe F. had comments about what the "bite" would be for a violation. He may have suggestions on this.

I have trouble with the word "edit" but only due to my exposure on another website where I witnessed a moderator going in and changing another persons post to something that no one would want to have had said about themselves.

Due to the hour here just after midnight MST I would like to revisit this portion concerning the word "Edit," tomorrow hopefully with discussions as to the scope of what is or is not a permissible, "Edit."

Below the last part of the TOS up for passage (in blue) as is or after modification. Highlighted in black (within the blue) is the focus of my concern.

By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:37 am

billcummings wrote:I have trouble with the word "edit" but only due to my exposure on another website where I witnessed a moderator going in and changing another persons post to something that no one would want to have had said about themselves.

I think I can guess the name of that other web site.   :shh:

Bill, your comments are an excellent example of why a US Hawks Board is much better than any one person running the show!! Thanks.

So let's figure out how to address that problem. I've given an example above where an "edit" might be needed to protect the US Hawks from liability (a user posting copyrighted material in that example). Now that could be handled by simply removing the entire post (without the need to edit), but I feel that would be more harsh than needed and it does more damage to the flow of the conversation in that topic than needed. So I propose that whenever a post is changed in any way (or even removed) against a member's wishes, that the removed text (or post) be replaced with a clearly obvious (bold red for example) statement from the moderator as to why the material was removed. I also propose that any such removed material must be saved somewhere so that it could be restored based on further review by the Board. Here's an example of what that might look like:

                                         Start of Moderator's Note                                         
      The copyrighted material in the user's original post was removed
        per US Hawks Board Decision (include a link to the decision).

                                          End of Moderator's Note                                          

How does that sound?
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby wingspan33 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:55 pm

I think that Bob's "Editorial Notation" (in a post where copyrighted content has been removed) is fine - as I look at it now.

I do have a suggestion regarding the "editing" of any member's post. The Terms of Service could state that
The editing of posted content will only take place when a violation of (forum) rules take place. Such editing will be restricted to the removal of the message content considered to be in violation. . .


And as in Bob's suggested "copyright" notice, we could make it a policy that -

. . . the extent of a moderator's edit will amount ONLY to the in-question text/comments being replaced with [a similar notice to] the following -

. . . . . . VIOLATING CONTENT HIDDEN
Any Questions, Please Contact the Moderator for Clarification


Bill, this would disallow a moderator from altering or adding their own text to someone else's post. The "Editing" of any post would only allow Bob's "Copyright Violation Notice" or an "Editorial Notice" such as I have suggested above. No "creative" editing allowed. How's that sound?

S C Wise
Last edited by wingspan33 on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby Bill Cummings » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:57 pm

Scott, I posted near the same time and now see your above post. I think you are thinking along the lines that would resolve my concerns. Thank you. End of Bills edit.
bobk wrote:
billcummings wrote:I have trouble with the word "edit" but only due to my exposure on another website where I witnessed a moderator going in and changing another persons post to something that no one would want to have had said about themselves.

I think I can guess the name of that other web site.   :shh:

Bill, your comments are an excellent example of why a US Hawks Board is much better than any one person running the show!! Thanks.

So let's figure out how to address that problem. I've given an example above where an "edit" might be needed to protect the US Hawks from liability (a user posting copyrighted material in that example). Now that could be handled by simply removing the entire post (without the need to edit), but I feel that would be more harsh than needed and it does more damage to the flow of the conversation in that topic than needed. So I propose that whenever a post is changed in any way (or even removed) against a member's wishes, that the removed text (or post) be replaced with a clearly obvious (bold red for example) statement from the moderator as to why the material was removed. I also propose that any such removed material must be saved somewhere so that it could be restored based on further review by the Board. Here's an example of what that might look like:

                                         Start of Moderator's Note                                         
      The copyrighted material in the user's original post was removed
        per US Hawks Board Decision (include a link to the decision).

                                          End of Moderator's Note                                          

How does that sound?

Trial Board,
My concern with the word, “Edit,” did not intend to have the word removed but only put restrictions or limitations on the Editor.

Limitations that would put certain edits outside of the Terms of Service.
Example:
Allegedly a moderator with malicious intent made an edit to someone’s post that said something to the effect: I like to touch little boys. Actions like this need to be restricted.

The copyright suggestion is a separate issue and I like Bob’s suggestion.

I was thinking more along the lines of putting a reference (*) after the word (Edit*) then at the bottom of the TOS insert language to restrict an edit of this sort.

I will need help with the wording that would accomplish this.
Edit by Bill C
Thanks Scott for the help. I would be comfortable with your suggestion.
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby wingspan33 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:10 pm

Bill,

I edited my own message while you were posting (then editing?) your own. I didn't change much - mainly a few small details. Still, read it again to be sure it still sounds good to you.

S C Wise

PS - I noticed the other day that the "signature" connected with my posts on another forum has been changed. The only person able to make such a change would be the site owner/moderator. I call that foul play. And certainly that should not be allowed here.

S C Wise
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby Bill Cummings » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:38 pm

wingspan33 wrote:Bill,

I edited my own message while you were posting (then editing?) your own. I didn't change much - mainly a few small details. Still, read it again to be sure it still sounds good to you.

S C Wise

PS - I noticed the other day that the "signature" connected with my posts on another forum has been changed. The only person able to make such a change would be the site owner/moderator. I call that foul play. And certainly that should not be allowed here.

S C Wise

Scott,
I would like to see Bob retain the authority to go into our own personal posts and make only spelling corrections after the one hour edit option has lapsed on each of our personal posts. With notice by the moderator that an edit has been made on spelling with permission.
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby Bill Cummings » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:19 pm

Suggested addendum to TOS:
(blue area under discussion, Note word "edit.")

Terms of Service,
By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit*, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
Addendum
* NOTE “edit*”
The editing of posted content will only take place when a violation of (forum) rules take place. Such editing will be restricted to the removal of the message content considered to be in violation.
Exception to the edit rule: Spelling corrections beyond the editing time period will be permitted by the moderator with the permission of the person making the post. A moderators edit note will be included.

Addendum : Copyright complaints,
Start of Moderator's Note
The copyrighted material in the user's original post was removed
per US Hawks Board Decision (include a link to the decision).
End of Moderator's Note
Or similar note:

VIOLATING CONTENT HIDDEN
Any Questions, Please Contact the Moderator for Clarification
_________________________________________________________________
Is this suggestion okay? Still to be considered is Joe F. "Bite," concerns.
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:10 pm

Hello Fellow Board Members,

I spent most of the afternoon in a meeting with my lawyer. It was a pleasure to see that in my absence, you guys were working out good solutions without the need for me butting in ... at all!!!!   :o

Since you've done so well without me, and since I still have a lot of other work to do on my case tonight, I'll sign off now knowing that the topic is in good hands.   :thumbup:

Please send me an email or just call me on the phone if you've got any motions that need seconding or if anything comes up for a vote.

Other than that, it's really really great to see you guys working together to improve the US Hawks!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Terms of Service - Remainder of 3rd Paragraph

Postby Bill Cummings » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:56 pm

Trial Board Members,

Here is Bob’s Motion before the Trial Board Members (TBM):

Re: Terms of Service Discussion

Postby bobk » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:14 am
This could be a complicated topic and it might take continual fine-tuning that never really ends.

However, in the spirit of both continuity and expediency, I move that we adopt the terms of service as they stand. If anyone would like to second my motion, then we can call for a vote.

Note that we can change them at any point in the future, but ratifying them now gives us a starting point to work from.
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--------------------------------------
The Motion is waiting for a TBM to Second the Motion.
---------------------------------------
Should Bob’s Motion receive a TBM Second to the Motion or absent that I would like to either Move to Amend the Motion by Bob K. or
Make a Motion of my own (Bill C.) in search of a Second to my,
Move to Make a Motion.

But first the entire TOS with the lower portion now under discussion highlighted in RED.

Below that will be either my (Bill C.) amendment to Bob’s Motion (currently lacking a second) or my (Bill C.) Motion to amend the “Boiler Plate” TOS.

ORIGINAL BOILER PLATE TOS:

By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

Below will be my additions to the “Boiler Plate,” TOS:


Suggested addendum to TOS:
(blue area under discussion, Note word "edit.")

Terms of Service,
By accessing “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”, “http://ushawks.org/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association”. We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Our forums are powered by phpBB (hereinafter “they”, “them”, “their”, “phpBB software”, “www.phpbb.com”, “phpBB Group”, “phpBB Teams”) which is a bulletin board solution released under the “General Public License” (hereinafter “GPL”) and can be downloaded from http://www.phpbb.com. The phpBB software only facilitates internet based discussions, the phpBB Group are not responsible for what we allow and/or disallow as permissible content and/or conduct. For further information about phpBB, please see: https://www.phpbb.com/.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit*, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
Addendum
* NOTE “edit*”
The editing of posted content will only take place when a violation of (forum) rules take place. Such editing will be restricted to the removal of the message content considered to be in violation.
Exception to the edit rule: Spelling corrections beyond the editing time period will be permitted by the moderator with the permission of the person making the post. A moderators edit note will be included.


Addendum : Copyright complaints,
Start of Moderator's Note
The copyrighted material in the user's original post was removed
per US Hawks Board Decision (include a link to the decision).
End of Moderator's Note
Or similar note:

VIOLATING CONTENT HIDDEN
Any Questions, Please Contact the Moderator for Clarification
I MAKE A MOTION THAT THESE ADDENDUM'S TO THE BOILER PLATE TOS BE APPROVED. IS THERE A SECOND?
(This Motion has encompassed several suggestions from other trial board members. As to the penalty part for breaking the rules either the boiler plate rules or the amended rules allow the future elected board to make these decisions)
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