[wingspan33]

I'm feeling a little conflicted here. Areo Sports Connection is a relatively new company but if you go to < http://www.aerosports.org/ > You will see, on their home page, images of a powered ultralight, a powered hang glider and a powered paraglider.

While the first quote (by dshman) in the opening post talks about promoting hang gliding, the commercial company he is promoting, Areo Sports Connection, actually represents more factions than the USHPA. Apparently it serves hang gliding, powered hang gliding, paragliding, powered paragliding, powered ultralights and not so light powered aircraft. I wouldn't be surprised if Areo Sports Connection would be happy to take money from speed wing pilots too.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Areo Sports Connection appears to be a for profit corporation with a CEO by the name of Jim Stephenson.

Where I would place the USHPA and the US Hawks as member based organizations, I would place Areo Sports Connection as a "Hey help make me a nice yearly income at your expense." for profit business.

The opening quote by dshman also appears to me like ASC is posing as a US Hawks-like group. Even to the extent of bringing up Dockweiler as if (or implying that) Areo Sports Connection and/or Darin Hecker are responsible for that accomplishment.

My impression of Areo Sports Connection is that they are a (for profit) vulture ready and happy to feed off the dying body of the USHPA. And pilots who might favor switching to a true member controlled hang gliding only organization may have their focus shifted away from the US Hawks.

Personally, I don't like what Darin Hecker is trying to pull off here. But his post on SG-Egoville.org highlights what it is I think the US Hawks should be doing - as a registered Not For Profit Member Controlled Hang Gliding Association.

[Bob Kuczewski]

You bring up some very good points Scott. It's unfortunate that Jack Axaopoulos has created so much fear in people that they're afraid - literally afraid - to speak up on hanggliding.org about what we're doing. There are hundreds of regular visitors there who would gladly join the U.S. Hawks but they don't even know about us or what we've already accomplished.

I would be very happy to see anyone who's not banned from hanggliding.org spreading the word about our rating system and our clubs and our work at Dockweiler. Many would welcome it.

As for ASC, they've got a tandem exemption and it's a great alternative to USHPA. Good for them. That starts to paint a picture of choice and that's also a good thing. If they could offer insurance, it would be even better. After all, most of us buy the gliders we fly from among a number of choices. Why not the same for insurance? Once there are choices - even two - then the market opens up to the full range of possibilities ... for profit and non profit. The hardest part is breaking an entrenched monopoly, and I'm glad to see ASC helping that happen.

Having said all of that, it is a bit painful (personally) to see another organization being promoted while we're not. But I take comfort in knowing what we've accomplished ... whether anyone else knows it or not.

[Rick Masters]

Revolutions are messy. People march in all directions.
I guess we could just hide in the woods and come out when the dust settles.
Capitalism creates a wild west environment.
Entrepreneurs seize opportunity.
Forty years ago, there were over 100 hang gliding manufacturers in the USA.
Now there are are only a handful.
Like nature, capitalism abhors a vacuum.
If the US Hawks fails to fill a void, something else will take its place.
Here it is.
May you live in interesting times.

[wingspan33]

. . . If they could offer insurance, it would be even better. After all, most of us buy the gliders we fly from among a number of choices. Why not the same for insurance? Once there are choices - even two - then the market opens up to the full range of possibilities ... for profit and non profit. . . .

Having said all of that, it is a bit painful (personally) to see another organization being promoted while we're not. But I take comfort in knowing what we've accomplished ... whether anyone else knows it or not.

About Insurance Bob, The ASC web site says the following -

Some pilots are seeking ASC over a need for insurance. ASC does not have insurance and can not beg, borrow or steal it.

If you think about it, ASC is in the business of issuing their version of USHPA rating cards and "awarding" tandem exemptions for (already certified) paraglider and hang glider tandem pilots. It's the tandem liabilities that are the biggest obstacle to getting back commercial insurance coverage. So I really doubt that ASC will ever be able to offer 3rd party insurance.

The US Hawks , were it a bit more official, business wise, might be able to secure insurance considering our single place, recreational hang gliding only philosophy. But the Hawks are mainly focused on the fact that Recreational Land Use Statutes nullify the need for insurance at most flying sites. That it is HG businesses that need insurance - not individual hang glider pilots. Also, let's not forget that the need for insurance is the "scam" that many of us think the USHPA is using to keep recreational members on board. Wouldn't someone other that the USHPA offering insurance just be someone else playing the same scam?

I would also like to emphasize that while ASC (a for profit Corporation) could be considered an organization, it is not "another organization" - like the USHPA or the US Hawks. It's a for profit company which sounds, to some degree, like it's trying to steal our thunder (particularly in mentioning Dockweiler!).

I would finally add that back in late 1975 and 76 there was an organization in eastern New York called the New York Hang Gliding Club. Being new to things I thought it was a club the way most clubs are clubs. But the New York Hang Gliding Club was a company with a single guy (Robert Dornick) as the owner. There were "club" meetings, but then things began happening that weren't voted on. The most senior Ellenville, NY pilots took notice and realized that the long range idea was for Dornick to make a profit off of us. Nearly everybody quit the "club" and we formed Southern New York Hang Glider Pilots Association. Membership dues went only to hang gliding related projects - not into one man's pocket. So, you may understand why I don't have the best impression of Darin Hecker and Areo Sports Connection.