[JoeF]

Some meta questions about "third-party" insurance in hang gliding world: (add to set of question, as you feel)

Q1. How well does the hang gliding community understand just what "third-party" insurance is and is not?
Q2. Aside from the intellectual understanding of "third-party" insurance, how are emotions affected by "having insurance" that is "third-party" sort?
Q3. How many hang glider pilots having organization-rooted "third-party" insurance actually have an emotional feeling that such "having" guards their own bodies by coverage? "I have the org's insurance; I am covered by the policy!" What of that text eats into the emotions to a confused result?
Q4. How many ways might "having" third-party insurance affect:
== risk managing?
== niche hang glider activity development?
== tunneling or narrowing of flying-site culture?
== funneling org power to the potential loss of creative variety in hang glider forms and in hang gliding activity formats?
Q5. An insuring company needs to make a profit. Does that mean they must pay out in benefits less than they take in while they cover its business costs and profits? The forces and influences applied to assure that such profit is made affect the culture of hang gliding how?
Q5. Would hang gliding community be safer with or without org-based "third-party" insurance?
Q6. Would hang gliding community be more creative and interesting and satisfying with or without org-based "third-party" insurance?
Q7. How much is the hang gliding community that participates in org-based third-party insurance aware of the cases that have won what benefits from payouts by the covering insurance companies?
Q8. What activities of citizens go forward without there being org-based "third-party" insurance?
Q9. How much putting off of getting personal medical and accidental insurance occurs by hang glider pilots as a result of the "having" of third-party insurance?
Q10. What are the causes of hang glider pilots injuring third parties? How could those causes be best avoided?
Q11. If I personally injure another person or his or her property, then what good could arrive from my facing and covering the injury or loss I may have caused? What part did the other person or property place in the losses? What good might come from the third-party facing its part in the incident? Would the world be better or worse if people took full direct responsibility for such matter?
Q12. ?

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hi Joe,

That's a long and thoughtful list of questions!!! Each one could justify its own topic. So I'll just focus on my favorite:

Q11. If I personally injure another person or his or her property, ... Would the world be better or worse if people took full direct responsibility for such matter?

I believe the world is worse off when people do not take direct responsibility for their actions. The casual attitude toward automobile "accidents" is one example that comes to mind. The high cost of health care is another.

Whenever you create deep pockets by pooling large amounts money, you incentivize the people who will come to take advantage of it. Shady lawyers, false claims, big settlements, higher premiums, higher costs all come from our current liability insurance model.

It's believed by some that the folks on Easter Island destroyed their culture and eventually themselves in an unsustainable effort to build stone idols. I think many of our economic policies (including our "house of cards" liability insurance industry) are similarly unsustainable and are bleeding our country slowly to death. Hang gliding is just a microscopic view into the crippling implications of requiring everyone to have enough money to pay for any harm they could possibly do to anyone or anything in the universe. That's not the nature of life, but it will be the cause of our economic death.

Back to hang gliding ... in round numbers, I think USHPA has about 10,000 members who each pays about $50 for insurance per year. That's half a million dollars every year that leaves the hang gliding and paragliding community. Wouldn't it be great to use that money for something more closely related to flying itself?

Having said all of that, I don't see any good alternatives given the social and political environment of this country. We're becoming a "Nanny State", and the insurance companies are more than happy to get their cut.

[JoeF]

The HGFA membership fee for 31/8/13 to 1/9/14 is $314.00 plus payment of your State/Regional Levy. An increase of $44.00

The HGFA withdraws its previous offer to accept early payment of next years fees at this years prices.

The HGFA Fee increase for the year 31/8/13 to 1/9/14 is solely attributed to an increase in the level of HGFA Insurance necessary to satisfy the requirements of our operational environment.

HGFA records show the 2002-03 Aviation policy was for a $10 M coverage; I think it was $10 M two years earlier. It has been $10 M for at least 11 years.

A $20,000,000 insurance coverage requirement is being demanded across all levels of Government in the country. The Committee of Management has no choice but to provide it or otherwise our members would have commenced to lose their sites on public lands, which are most of our sites. The Schools would also lose access to most of their training sites.

This increase from $10,000,000.00 to $20,000,000.00 in coverage has resulted in an increase in our Aviation Insurance policy of 62%.which equates to $44.00 per HGFA member which is the amount that the HGFA Fee has had to be increased to meet the unavoidable increase in Insurance costs.

The Victorian State Government now require it for all the VHPA sites in Victoria that are in National Parks and in State Forest (many 10's of sites) and Local Government is requiring it also. Most of Victoria's sites are leased from the State Government and the leases on these sites have lapsed and they need to be renewed which requires $20 M Aviation and General Insurance coverage.

Queensland government at all levels have required it since late last year and they were placated in the interim and permitted existing leases and permits to continue until this latest insurance renewal on the promise the renewal would be for $20 M coverage. Permits and leases that had lapsed in the last insurance period had to be renewed with an additional $10 M of cover in each individual situation.

NSW government at all levels is now demanding $20 M coverage as is WA and SA. The only state not heard from to date is Tas.

Most home insurance policies include $20 M coverage and Car policies include $30 M coverage.

This financial year we are making a large operating loss of which most was incurred because throughout 2012 we were forced (had no option) to legally defend against a frivolous law suit which ended when the other party agreed to walk away but by that time it had cost HGFA approximately $122,000.00 in legal costs. The other party sold their house to meet their legal costs and the HGFA had no likelihood of recovering its costs.

HGFA, dissolve. Forget organized controlled sites. Put all you assets into developing launch-from-anywhere tech. Then fly as you walk.

[JoeF]

Reap what one sows:

As of today (05/07/2013) only the pilots shown below are current RAF members.
If your name is not on this list
and you'd like to fly RAF sites this year,
please be sure to renew your membership.
As always, you must also be a current USHPA member to join RAF.

That is some formula that increasingly feels un-American for some reason; I am still trying to phrase the matter.
Right of an org; OK. Dependency on another org; OK, fine.
Has property owners of the "sites" agreed to the line of custody? Maybe; OK, fine.

Then what is puzzling? Or perplexing? Options are not explored or mentioned; the target is to have membership in a private org that depend on a private org; there is apparently no need to mention optional paths to flying in national airspace by a winged human. A skydiver walking off the cliff of one of the sites may have been a member of USPA, not USHPA or RAF; that skydiver may have no urge to join RAF or USHPA; skydiver may say, "I am not using your site for hang gliding; rather, I am using the cliff to do my skydiving off SpaceShip Earth, do you mind?" Or a boy with a kite might want to run down the slope and not be a member of any private org: "I am a kite flier running and jumping my kite; do you mind?" Or a walker-jumper might walk and jump down a slope and do some mini flights in the air during the jumps with shirt opened to the wind; "do you mind; I don't want to join a series of private orgs; maybe those orgs have bylaws and doings that go against what I personally believe and work for; I'll just walk and jump and shirt fly as I have since I was three years old, if you please; thank you"

Shouldn't those clubs phrase the matter differently? Instead of "fly" might be found "like to use the dirt here and there" as the air is not the club's, but the air belongs to the national airspace and open to all citizens. Focus on the dirt, I suggest. Property rights; you are on my parcel; follow my rules. The air is a different matter.

eHG from flats, from home roofs, from streets, from sidewalks, from buddy's shoulders, from platform launch from cars (solar recharged, I hope; or wind-based, etc) ... From parks and state and public lands in the analogical rights of walkers, runner, hikers, leapers, dancers, high jumpers, long jumpers. Encourage play to have a strong nation.

The open ocean for HG? Yes.
Bailout landings ... hmmmmmm millions.

This SailRocket did not have USHPA membership.
Neither did Seagull seen near the flight of the SailRocket.

And this guy did not have USHPA membership:

Hey Buddy, do you have USHPA membership?

Hey, Lady, you better not use that ground again, as I do not see on you the USHPA badge, rating, insurance card, and dues-paid item; STOP THAT FLYING DANCING STUFF!

Hey, Uncle Pete, stop launching your niece into the air, as you are not showing your launcher's rating and you do not have USHPA valid-up-to-date membership card! Just STOP. And she does not have a 30-day card from USHPA either; so STOP play flying.

Hold it there Little Fella, where is your USHPA up-to-date-valid card? You better not land until you pay up to a certain singular private corporation that has secret rep voting.

[JoeF]

In E.A.A.'s May 2013 issue of Sport Aviation, page 1, same month of Otto Lilienthal's birthday (also day of memorial for James Hobson, pioneer 1962 hang glider maker and pilot), one sees the start of the commentary by Jack J. Pelton:

"NONE OF US WANT to be labeled. Yes, we all have our professional skills, our favorite activities, personal beliefs, and attitudes about everything from what we eat to where we live. But slap a label on us, and we are confined. A label puts one in a pigeonhole unable to grow and change and, well, experiment."

What is the strength of a waiver, personal, and group? "I, we, won't sue you; we take full responsibility for our actions when we walk/fly off your dirt; and we will walk/fly, so as not to hurt others or your property. If I injure your plants, then I will more than replace them or cover more than the fair market value of the loss; you will not be liable for any injury I cause to myself or to others in my recreational activity; I will not run a business from your property. Others have had third-party insurance and there might have been a tendency to be less than totally guarding of your property; and when they injured things, the covering insurance company did fight tooth-and-nail to avoid payouts; differently, I will go all out to cover whatever I injure; and I sign that I give up my right to sue. Signed and witnessed hereon, notarized too; copied filed with US Hawks Hang Gliding Association and mailed to USHPA and to FAI and to my parish pastor and to the White House and on the pages of World Hang Gliding Association." Buddies gather to replant over a gouge in the lawn from a messy landing; and the pilot pays up a benefit to the lawn owner.

Will there be U.S. hang gliding org that has a very strong waiver support, but no third-party insurance program? Have formal waiver certificates and cards. Members file their waivers with local, national, and international hang gliding bodies. Property owners have the waiver contract. Let "meets" and "competitions" and organized parties arrange their own advertisers and their own liability insurance system. Let there be a sector that is for airframed hang gliding for hobby and recreational and experimental flight play without letting the insurance companies constrain the play and experimentation. Let the waiver contract guide judges to the favor of property owners.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hey Buddy, do you have USHPA membership?

Hey, Lady, you better not use that ground again, as I do not see on you the USHPA badge, rating, insurance card, and dues-paid item; STOP THAT FLYING DANCING STUFF!

Hey, Uncle Pete, stop launching your niece into the air, as you are not showing your launcher's rating and you do not have USHPA valid-up-to-date membership card! Just STOP. And she does not have a 30-day card from USHPA either; so STOP play flying.

Hold it there Little Fella, where is your USHPA up-to-date-valid card? You better not land until you pay up to a certain singular private corporation that has secret rep voting.

Thanks Joe, that was great!!