[howie]

the segregation of recreational Aviation is what is going to kill this sport.if we all can't get along and start recognizing people for their abilities then it's over.with the new drones and the people flying gyrocopters in the Washington DC.soon no one's going to be allowed in the air if you're not a part 91 pilot.

[Rick Masters]

the segregation of recreational Aviation is what is going to kill this sport.

Okay.
So let's combine hang gliding with the most dangerous kinds of parachuting (two soaring parachutists died yesterday) and see what happens.
Put them on the BOD. Give all the new members a vote. New liability problems? Form an RRG.
Why stand on our own feet and merits when we can be dragged off in other directions that we never intended to go?
What could go wrong?    

Hang gliding is a unique sport.
It's not "segregation" for it to remain one.
The problem is subjugation.
Hang gliding almost became subjugated to ultralights in the early 1980s when the USHGA tried to mix them with our sport.
There was a lot more money in ultralights and there were a lot more people involved.
It took an outcry from USHGA members to force the ultralights out.
Only by this action did we regain control of our true soaring sport (by the skin of our teeth).

USPA represents skydiving.
SSA represents soaring sailplanes.
EAA and USUA represent experimental powered aircraft.
USPPA represents powered paragliders.
These organizations form consortiums to promote their common interests.
But they don't combine unrelated sports within their associations.
Only the USHPA combines unrelated types: soaring parachutes and weight-shift gliders.
Because of disproportionate numbers, paragliding controls hang gliding.
This is the result of the integration of disparate sports.
It doesn't work.
It is a mistake that needs to be corrected.
It has nothing to do with "getting along."
We don't need to give up control of hang gliding to work together with other types of recreational aviation.
This is why the US Hawks seeks to become a national recreational hang gliding association as an alternative to the mutant USHPA.

- Form a national recreational hang gliding association that recognizes the abilities of hang glider pilots -

[Bob Kuczewski]

the segregation of recreational Aviation is what is going to kill this sport.if we all can't get along and start recognizing people for their abilities then it's over.with the new drones and the people flying gyrocopters in the Washington DC.soon no one's going to be allowed in the air if you're not a part 91 pilot.

The United States broke away from England due to what might have been termed "irreconcilable differences". The new country ("United States") ended up forming their own Constitution which corrected many abuses from the "old country". In the end, the US Revolution ended up making both countries better and stronger.

There were many who urged the Colonies to "work within the system" with England. These British Loyalists (coincidentally called "Tories" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalist_%28American_Revolution%29) felt that breaking away would weaken both nations. I think history would show them to have been wrong. The freedoms that grew out of the US Revolution would have come much slower (if at all) if the US hadn't formed its own nation. Eventually, many of the freedoms demanded by the Colonists would end up being adopted by Great Britain and many other countries making the whole world better.

I suspect the same will be true for the US Hawks. If we succeed as an organization, then I believe USHPA will eventually adopt our practices of open voting by our Board Members, lifetime ratings, and better support of local clubs (shared web sites, political support, etc). That's what competition brings. Just like a rising tide, it eventually lifts all boats.

Hang gliding is a unique sport.
It's not "segregation" for it to remain one.
The problem is subjugation.
Hang gliding almost became subjugated to ultralights in the early 1980s when the USHGA tried to mix them with our sport.
There was a lot more money in ultralights and there were a lot more people involved.
It took an outcry from USHGA members to force the ultralights out.
Only by this action did we regain control of our true soaring sport (by the skin of our teeth).

USPA represents skydiving.
SSA represents soaring sailplanes.
EAA and USUA represent experimental powered aircraft.
USPPA represents powered paragliders.
These organizations form consortiums to promote their common interests.
But they don't combine unrelated sports within their associations.
Only the USHPA combines unrelated types: soaring parachutes and weight-shift gliders.
Because of disproportionate numbers, paragliding controls hang gliding.
This is the result of the integration of disparate sports.
It doesn't work.
It is a mistake that needs to be corrected.
It has nothing to do with "getting along."
We don't need to give up control of hang gliding to work together with other types of recreational aviation.
This is why the US Hawks seeks to become a national recreational hang gliding association as an alternative to the mutant USHPA.

What Rick wrote there is exactly right ... EXACTLY right.   

To underscore the point, ask your self this question:    What do you get if you add hang gliding to a Golf Association?

Answer:    A Golf Association.

[Chris McKeon]

I hear all this talk about How HG is Dying. Reading this Post I guess other Air sports are not doing so well either. I am not Flying currently due to injuries that I sustained on My last Flight twelve Years ago. So I hear about Paragliders have been taking over our Costal Sites. I for one because I do not have the needed Huge testicles from which I would have the raw Courage that is Mandatory for a person to Fly Paragliders. Can You say A-Symmetrical Collapse? Once there was a Pilot who I talked to up at our great Mountain site, Mount Diablo. Well the Subject of having an Asymmetrical collapse came up. This Para Pilot responded to My Question regarding if He had ever had a Collapse? He just shrugged His shoulders, and responded by saying; "Collapses Heck I have had two in one Flight. Collapses are just part of Flying a Paraglider. I mean how many Pilots that can say that they cheated Death not once, but twice in a single flight?

Para Glider Pilots have guts, nerves of steel. These Men and Woman, talk about Pilots with ice water in their veins.

[Bob Kuczewski]

I hear all this talk about How HG is Dying.

Thanks for posting Chris. Thanks also for digging up this 5 year old topic because it is still relevant today.

The topic started with Howie, and I agree with him that we do need to get along:

the segregation of recreational Aviation is what is going to kill this sport.if we all can't get along and start recognizing people for their abilities then it's over.

Rick had a good response which I endorsed:

This is why the US Hawks seeks to become a national recreational hang gliding association as an alternative to the mutant USHPA.

But the problem of division is actually much worse than Howie or Rick described because there is tremendous division even WITHIN the sport of hang gliding. The sport of hang gliding itself has been badly splintered by the fragile egos of Jack Axaopoulos and Davis Straub. Disagree with them (on almost anything) and you're banned from their "communities". Some of the best people in the sport have been banned from those two sites (hanggliding.org and ozreport.com) for simply speaking up. There are many examples, but none better than Joe Faust.

Joe Faust was banned from hanggliding.org because he created a web site (USHGRS.org) where he offered free, objective, and completely open hang gliding ratings. Imagine that. Imagine that one of the founding members of USHGA (USHGA #5) decided to openly rate all pilots using objective and publicly available information. It's a great idea, and yet Joe Faust was banned from hanggliding.org by Jack Axaopoulos for doing just that. Disgusting.

But those two tin pot dictators (Jack Axaopoulos and Davis Straub) didn't screw up the sport on their own. They were both backed (either explicitly or implicitly) by the spineless bootlickers who didn't have the courage to speak up because it might rock their own little agendas. Some of them acted very offended that Jack Axaopoulos would ban Joe Faust (Oh my!). But in the end, they all did nothing and continued merrily posting on hanggliding.org while knowing that they were supporting what had been done to Joe.

[Chris McKeon]

WE HAVE BEEN ROBBED, NOW WHAT?


This talk of How Hang-Gliding is Dying is quite disturbing to Me. I wish that talk did not resolve about the idea that We might one dat no longer be able to drive say up to ne of the spots atop a mountain, and exercise our Personal freedoms of Free Flight! I mean that is what we do! Strapping a Hang-Glider to our backs and tapping off into Flight. Is that not return feelings to ourselves of fulfillment? Look back at what we did to ourselves. I remember back in the 1980's when We Allowed Paragliders to become Members of our organization; USHGA. Well I believe that We should of helped Paragliders develop what We had done for ourselves. I actually tried to do My part to Help out Paragliders. I mean who would not try to help Paragliders achieve what We had done for ourselves. If Paragliders had done what would have been appropriate for them to do for themselves, but No! We simply took them under our Wings' and let them join our organization. Then simply because of their Raw numbers, they have stolen our organization. I guess that ago old saying is appropriate when one thinks about this ugly reality. "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT". I MEAN i really do believe that We should have Mentored Para-Gliders, helped Them in Their Quest to do just what We did. that would have been to create their own organization.

Should Paraglider Pilots be able to run over us? They have, stolen control of the Organization that We Hang Glider Pilots created. Just because Paraglider Pilot have what We do not. To fly a Paraglider one must be endowed with raw courage just in order to take flight, Can You say A-symmetrical Collapse? I for one will never have the Raw-Courage that I would have to have in order for Me to fly a Para-Glider. I did, and I will try to do what I can in order that I would-will be able to help Para-Glider Pilots Fly. But I did not, nor do I in any way shape or form support the stealing, the robbing of our organization.

[eagle]

Here are some Ugly facts:

1. David Jebb as Air Sports Adventure won the Gliderport lease under false pretense, A family run dirty cop racketeering operation, that was selling Meth out the back door that continued for years, posing as a USHPA club leader with a bumper sticker that said for the love of free flight. The only Gliderport requirement was a USHPA rating and a signature and a recreational pilot could fly free. There was No Access fee to a free public park  Are you Kidding

2. Public extortion by force of contract under duress was started by David Jebb in the 3rd month of control by blocking recreational pilot access, forcing recreational pilots into an unfair Tandem/School contract and an Access Fee, invented out of thin air to commercialize our historically protected free flight park. 

3. Misappropriation of Public Funding, David Jebb Using his color of authority claimed ownership of the Gliderport and destroyed the Hang Gliding club that built the Gliderport. Transferring site fees collected by the club specifically for the site improvements into private accounts.

4. Abuse of power for personal gain and profit. David Jebb, a Dirty Cop operating under "Air California Adventure" claimed the City of San Diego owed him and his measly $10 an hour SDPD retirement pension wasn't cutting it. Confessed to robbing the Hang Gliding Club site fees for personal gain. David Jebb told me he could not pay his Gliderport bills, his home mortgage, and put his kids through college. David Jebb told me about his illegal plans to commercialize and privatization of our free flight Park. How do I know I was his assistant under threat and there was nothing I was able to do about it. 

5. The Crime Continues, Extortion by contract started the moment the leaseholder David Jebb forest the public into a now mandatory tandem School contract. Air California Adventure was already forcing USHPA club membership and Insurance payments not required by law and then invented an access pass fee out of thin air to illegally Commercialize and privatize a grandfathered historically designated free flight public park.

6. This is a Violation of the RICO Act. Racketeering in breach of the intended use of contract, again by blocking access and business, the leaseholder with a manipulated Tandem/School "Snack Shop" Contract claims exclusive rights to all business both public and private, cornering the market, driving all prices up to what the market will bare, forcing management fees on all tandem/instructors pilots and public free use.

The question arises Who is protecting recreational pilots... NO ONE

The Facts Are: We are being robbed by our leaders. If not they have to pay for their own operational insurance.
Every Recreational Pilot across the country is forced to pay them by contract. By threat of violence or arrest.
Every instructor is responsible for allowing our sport to be ripped off because if not their insurance goes up.
 
This is the Biggest Aviation Lie in History 
Our Historical Torrey Pines Gliderport Gliderport and Every Pilot Across the country are being held hostage by our Leaders.
The worst case of "Public extortion by a manipulated City Contract"
Orchestrated by the DAVID JEBB SDPD POLICE CRIME FAMILY

As a result, with No One standing up for our recreational rights ~ The Crime Continues
Every pilot will be under control by threat of violence or arrest till the day We die.

What to do next is expose the truth by forcing our leaders to go Transparent and stop the Corruption within our own community

Torrey Pines Instructor Ridge Rats.jpg (16.83 KiB) Viewed 2687 times

[Bob Kuczewski]

The question arises Who is protecting recreational pilots... NO ONE

We have to protect ourselves by joining together in organizations committed to that purpose. The US Hawks mission statement is to Promote, Protect, and Serve Recreational Hang Gliding (see our logo on every page).

But an organization is just a group of people. As members of the U.S. Hawks, we should each be contributing to that effort as much as we can and as often as we can.

Thanks for all who have supported that effort for the last 12 years.

[Chris McKeon]

It is not to Surprising for Me anyways to Hear that Our Sport of Free-Flight has been threatened By People who weald Power, or simply want to, or want to wield Control over what We do. I mean I for One simply just love the fact that I can drive up a Mountain, and launch, then Fly. Flying My Predator for Me is just such an Awesome experience. I mean I have been enduring an injury forced time of non flight. But everyDay I think about Flying. In order for Me to Get My Air-Jassams, I very well might have to Fly an Grebe Sailplane again. For Me the thought of not being able to Fly My Predator ever again, simply Breaks My Heart. That may be indeed My reality. For due to injuries I sustained thirteen Years Ago. But to have someone who is most likely totally ignorant to What Personal Fre- Flight is about, to be able to limit our ability to Fly, that is not acceptable. I think back to X-C Flights that I have had while Flying My Predator. I once landed in a Field that part of the Area owned by Travis Air-Force Base. I had launched from Mount Diablo California. I flew until I experienced that Foul, Filthy, Vulgar cuss Word, Yes I will come out and say it I "SUNK" Out. Well one of the Air Force Guys who had driven to the edge of the Field where I had Landed, asked Me Where I had Launched from? I simply Pointed South towards Mount Diablo, where one can see Diablo. Mount Diablo has the Second best scenic panoramic View of any Mountain in California. Well when after I answered His question regarding the Distance I had Flown that Day. I said; Diablo to here is only Forty Four Miles away. He was shocked! He said things like; "but You have no Engine". He also said to Me; "I do not believe it". I did not have the Heart to tell Him that a Forty Four Mile Flight is not at all a long Distance XC, Cross Country Flight. I mean People like this Military Police Guy Who are literally ignorant to what We do all the Time. These People are talking about, Free-Flights Demise. It is not just Free-Flight that is on the chopping Block, but other types of Personal General Aviation that is also under threat.

Think about it; FREE FLIGHT, the operative Word when one says Free Flight, The Operative Word is 'Free'.

[Craig Muhonen]

"Free Fliers"

This word is the ultimate subjugation and lie which occurred when the first paragliders came to Hang Gliding sites and called themselves Hang Gliders in the form of "Free Fliers".
They were hanging and they were weight shift and they did safely fly, so they were invited to share the airspace.
The word "free flying" was forever injected into the word Hang Gliding on that day, and the PG media association was born which increased "free flying" to overwhelming numbers. HG was being squeezed into flying an obstacle course every day, and they just got tired of doing all that work.

Before, it was being a Recreational Hang Glider Pilot, after it was being a "free flier" which is a moniker that real trained pilots shun.
"Free Flying" is their lie.

I was around when Dick Eiper strapped a chainsaw motor with a propeller to his back, and launched in his Hang Glider. He wacked and got a mouth full of sand, but that day was the birth of the ultralight companies that sprung up. Dick was more of a marketer and an expert one too, so he went his way but his partner David Cronk had to separate himself.
To me, David is at the core of what Hang Gliding was and is. When he flew, everybody sat back and were in awe of what he was doing in the lift band. It was the beautiful wings he developed that caught everybody's eye.
Torrance beach became a mecca of fun loving gliding, and when Francis Rogallo got to fly one of his craft there, Hang Gliding gained high acclaim.