Frank Politics

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Re: Frank Politics

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:39 am

wingspan33 wrote:But again, who knows how many other HG pilots, will leave (or have left) the US Hawks because of the divisive and utterly unnecessary communications that certain member(s) seem to need to put out there.

There's a simple rule on public forums: Don't read what you don't want to read.

I understand that free speech is a double-edged sword that cuts in both directions. The sport of hang gliding has suffered greatly at the hands of those who claimed to silence people "for the good of the community". Remember the HGAA? Jack and his cronies silenced the most valuable volunteers under the guise of "building the organization". It went defunct shortly afterward.

We do have categories for posts and topics. If you feel something is out of place, please bring it to the Board. But in general, I tend to favor wide latitude in what people can say, and I will tend to vote along those lines. But I am just one of five and I'm not always on the winning side.

By the same token, Warren, I do think that some of your non hang gliding posts are pushing the bounds of what is appropriate in hang gliding sections of the forum. Please try to be mindful of that as you post.
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Re: Frank Politics

Postby Free » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:32 pm

wingspan33 wrote:
What you don't seem to get, or just refuse to get, is that The US Hawks Hang Gliding Association is about hang gliding. Hang gliding subjects include hang gliding politics for sure. But MOST hang glider pilots fly (or read HG forum contents) because they want to get away from the business and/or political talk that they have to deal with EVERY DAY when they are walking around on the ground.


You don't strike me as someone who is immersed in business and/or political talk EVERY DAY.

That's why I suggested a "Hang Gliding Politics" section.


I applaud you for that!

Then there is your "special case". You want to stand on your soap box and have everybody hear/read what you have to say about general/national (non hang gliding) politics.


I don't think this is a fair assessment at all. My soap box is educational and is for everyone's benefit if they care to understand more than what they are immersed in every day when they are walking around on the ground. My comments are usually labeled as such that they should be easily skipped and ignored by those with too much going on in their heads to possibly absorb one little bit more. '

Well, the US Hawks has lost who knows how many members because of the amount of hang gliding politics on the "Front Page".

Who really knows? Any examples?

A friend of mine who spearheaded the hang gliding display at the Glen Curtiss Museum told me, after signing up here as a member last month, that there seemed to a lot of "crazy conspiracy stories" on the Hawks. I explained why, as best I could, but he has NEVER made an effort to post anything to the US Hawks. That's one example of one person who thinks the US Hawks is some kind of "nut case" web site. He thinks so because of the number of "political" topics posted here - be they hang gliding related, or general/national related.


Doesn't sound like politics is the culprit here in your example. How do you know he isn't posting because you claim to be a friend?
How could you explain "crazy conspiracy stories" when you admit to not knowing anything about me? What did you tell him?

As long as members here can tolerate posts that are primarily meant to announce someone's personal (non-hang gliding) politics, They will remain members.
You seem to be projecting power here that you don't really have.

But again, who knows how many other HG pilots, will leave (or have left) the US Hawks because of the divisive and utterly unnecessary communications that certain member(s) seem to need to put out there.


Yeah, who really knows what is necessary and unnecessary? I don't think you are such a good judge of that.
Again, thanks for your part in creating this new area of discussion.
This forum is a powerful addition to the U.S. Hawks!
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Re: Frank Politics

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:40 pm

Free wrote:Frank has indicated in the past his allegiance to the leftist delusion/derangement.

I don't think that's accurate Warren. Can you offer a quote to back that up? If not, would you please rephrase that to be more accurate?
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Re: Frank Politics

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:14 pm

As of a few minutes ago this topic was moved to the "Free Speech Zone" by a vote of the U.S. Hawks Board. The following note was placed into the first post to mark it's previous location:

Moderator's Note: This topic was moved here
from the "Hang Gliding Politics" forum
by a vote of the U.S. Hawks Board.
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Re: Frank Politics

Postby Free » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:44 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Free wrote:Frank has indicated in the past his allegiance to the leftist delusion/derangement.

I don't think that's accurate Warren. Can you offer a quote to back that up? If not, would you please rephrase that to be more accurate?

Yes! It was an incomplete sentence. Add the word CULT at the end of the sentence, as in Frank has indicated in the past, his allegiance to the leftist delusion/derangement CULT.
I did not properly proof read what got posted. I remember editing CULT into the post but must not have hit send correctly.

I believe it to be true based on unsolicited political comments Frank made, slightly hypocritical I might add, that told me Frank had a touch of Trump derangement syndrome. This was after the 3 year hoax of the Russian collusion theory had collapsed to anyone paying attention. Frank never missed a beat in the 'get Trump fervor' and stated that it was Trump's taxes that was the problem.

Frank hasn't denied he has TDS. According to some polls, which I don't believe, upwards of 50% of the public share the same syndrome.
My comment was not an attack. It was an observation.
I hope that helps clear things up.
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Re: Frank Politics

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:43 pm

Warren,

I voted for Reagan twice, and Trump once (so far), so you really can't say I'm a leftist.

But I think you're being too hard on Frank for his politics. Frank sincerely believes the things he believes. I may not agree with all of them, but I don't think Frank wants bad things to happen to anyone. He just believes in different cause/consequence relationships than we do. That was clear in the banning of Joe Faust. I absolutely believe Frank wanted Joe to not be banned. And I absolutely believe that Frank thought diplomacy would be the better path than speaking out in protest. I absolutely believe the same to be true of Michael and Red (Tom) as well.

So I don't think It's really appropriate to be too harsh on people who want good things but just have a different approach to getting there than we do. Approaches can be changed by trial and error. That's the process of learning. We can all be wrong.

I think Frank now sees a different version of Jack Ax than he did a year or so ago. I know it took me nearly 2 years to see Jack for who he really was. How long did it take you?

As for Michael and Red, I think they suffer from their own self-induced blind spots. There are certain things they just don't want to see. Few things make a person more angry than being forced to see something inside themselves that they don't want to see.
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