[JoeF]

Life, personal medical, third-party, equipment ? What else? Insurance matters may be studied in this topic thread. Ask questions. Give answers. Explore. Report.
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Rick M. just noted that in some kinds of negotiations, it might be well to urge excluding canopy paragliding in order to encourage underwriters to cover hang gliding.

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Is the hang gliding community addicted to third-party insurance? With advances in equipment, risk management, good habits, judgement ...Is it a reasonable thing even to get involved with third-party insurance? Are we not to conduct ourselves and fly, so that we do not injure other people and others' properties? If a club has excellent habits, then how much damage will they do to other people and others' property? Hopefully: no people and no third-party property.

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Sites? Negotiation with land owners? Think walkers, runners, hikers, umbrella carriers, toy users ... and wonder why they seem not to be addicted to third-party insurance. Maybe stay clear of "events" and "meets" and "competitions" and formal organized sites.

Consider how progress in e-FLPHG might make "sites" be of lower interest.

And consider how firm waivers (waive right to sue for personally getting injured on property) notarized ... excluding paragliders ... along with a firm contract to pay for any damages related to one'e hang gliding might open sites for hang gliders only on private property. Sign at site: "Paragliding Prohibited; Hang Gliding by direct permit allowed. Such might be for some properties. Then practice low in attracting other persons who are not actually hang gliding. Maybe pilots only on a certain property. And volunteer (not commercial contract) to leave the property NICER than when arriving (let property owner suggest what might be nicer; perhaps historical debris has been left by non-hang glider people or wind; HG pilots picking up debris could show gratitude for private-property-use permission.

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If third-party insurance is wanted, then Rick's suggestion might help: Agree to excluding paragliding in the policy.

??

[Rick Masters]

If the hang gliding association that replaces the hang gliding part of the USHPA has no assets and no lawyers, you will not see it morphing into the Roman Empire and crucifying members who think it has gone rogue. It will also not cost much to join and the local clubs will have a lot more say.

The most important thing involved in making something is not the actual making of it. It is the thinking that goes on before you do it. For example, you can design a really beautiful and fast wing, but if it kills you in turbulence, you've more than wasted your time. You've wasted your entire life and all your dreams. This is otherwise known as totally blowing it.

Back in the day, Wavey Gravey and the Hogg Farm bus commune insured their buses through a limited liability corporation called "Invisible Inc." It had no assets. If it was sued severely enough to cause a problem, the plan was for it to go bankrupt and dissolve. An elegant but simple solution to an otherwise unsolvable problem.

Designing a national hang gliding association with no assets and no responsibility except arranging - but not purchasing - public liability insurance, providing rules and communications, and contracting third parties for anything else, would actually provide greater protection to the hang gliding membership than the bastardized parachuting association in whose lines you are now ensnared.

No lawyers. Rid yourselves of parasites. No assets = no lawyers. Look what lawyers do. Tune in to the crucifixion this Wednesday.
This is the intention of the hang gliding membership? All who voted for the Secret Society Corporation raise your hands.

[Bob Kuczewski]

This is a really really well thought out comment Rick.

I like that direction a lot, and unless someone talks me out of it, I think that's the direction I'll be pushing the Board to go. I still think you'd make a great Board member, and I'm sure we could squeeze another electronic seat into the Board room for you. : )

Bob

[Rick Masters]

In my opinion, modern hang glider pilots are extremely gullible. They think it is perfectly reasonable to pay to insure people on parachutes. That's crazy. That's nuts. They see nothing wrong with sharing the cost of commercial activity. Some guy making $100 a pop on tandem joy rides. Yeah, we'll help finance that. Like he needs it. Towing, with all its additional dangers. Sure, we'll pitch in for that. Here's my wallet. Take my money. We'll pay for all of this. What a bunch of fools.

It wasn't always this way. Hang gliding associations weren't formed for anything other than free-flight on hang gliders. All the other stuff that's been added to the pool has been pee. You guys have been like the proverbial frogs in boiling water. Yeah, turn up the heat. We don't care. uShPa said we have to do it, so it must be right. We want to help pay for competitions, too. Look, we're bending over. Go ahead, do it. Take it. We don't mind. We love it. Do it again!

----------------------------------------------

The Canberra Times, Australia
September 2, 1976
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... rchLimits=

Gliding death blame 'misplaced'
The biggest problem facing hang-gliding in Australia was the number of tow-gliding deaths being attributed to it, Mr. Mike Heat, treasurer of the Australian Capital Territory Hang Gliding Association, said yesterday.

Mr. Heat, commenting on recent publicity given to the dangers of hang gliding, said there had been only two deaths in the sport since it began in Australia about five years ago.

Other reported victims of hang-gliding had actually been tow-gliding, he said.

"Hang-gliding is when a person is foot-launched off a hill or ridge, but tow-gliding is when a person is towed by a car or some sort of motorboat..." he said.

"The association doesn't support or encourage tow-gliding."

The Australian Capital Territory Hang Gliding Association was formed in November 1975, and its 20 experienced fliers have trained about 90 students, ranging from 18 to 64 years of age.

Students can join the association for $7.50, and the Self Soar Association for another $7.50, which gives them insurance cover and allows them to enter competitions.

...Mr. Heat, who is also a parachutist, said he would not attempt tow-gliding "for all the tea in China" because there were too many people involved.

"With hang-gliding you are completely under your own control, dependent solely on yourself," he said.

[JoeF]

http://www.disabledsportsusa.org/insurance-exclusions/

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/10/04/the-7-deadly-hobbies-pastimes-your-insurer-hates/

Apparently these activities are covered by a certain entity's insurance:
http://www.disabledsportsusa.org/resour ... ve-sports/

If the activity a traveler is participating in is not listed in the policy as covered, it’s not covered
No travel insurance plan will cover you while flying or learning to fly an aircraft – even with the hazardous sports or adventure activities option.
Quote from: http://www.travelinsurancereview.net/co ... re-sports/

Docs Quit Over Crushing Cost of Insurance

Life insurance comments from a life insurance broker: https://www.lifebroker.com.au/kb/2013-01-14/hang-glider-flying-and-life-insurance-

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[Rick Masters]

Cost of insuring a British soaring parachutist for one year in the USA from Friday 1st January 2016 until Saturday 31st December 2016.
https://www.jsinsurance.co.uk/travel_insurance/paragliding-travel-insurance.html
Paragliding (Medical Excess is increased to £600. Personal Accident sum insured is reduced by 50%. No Personal Liability Cover.)

US$1672 for:

Cancellation or Curtailment £2,500
Excursions £100
£100 Excess

Medical and Repatriation Expenses £5,000,000
£100 Excess
PARAGLIDING: Medical Excess is increased to £600.

Emergency Dental Treatment £200
£100 Excess

Funeral Expenses Abroad £1,000
£100 Excess

Hospital Benefit £600
£30 per day
No Excess

Personal Accident £15,000
No Excess
PARAGLIDING: Personal Accident sum insured is reduced by 50%.

Baggage £1,500
£100 Excess

Baggage - Single Article Limit £250
£100 Excess

Baggage Delay £100
No Excess

Valuables Limit £250
£100 Excess

Personal Money £300
£100 Excess

Cash Limit £200
£100 Excess

Cash Limit for under 16's £50
£100 Excess

Passport £300
£100 Excess

Personal Liability £1,000,000
£100 Excess
PARAGLIDING: No Personal Liability Cover.

Delayed Departure £100
No Excess

Missed Departure £500
£100 Excess

Legal Expenses / Assistance £15,000
Policy Limit £30,000
£100 Excess

Hijack £500
£50 per day
No Excess

Mugging Benefit £500
£50 per day
£50 Excess

Kennell and Cattery Expenses £100
£10 Excess
[No mention of pigs]

Policy
https://www.jsinsurance.co.uk/travel_insurance/compare_policies/155/7270260/f6a005c1bb06bcd7fbdb753437c738b617bc56c5/

[dhmartens]

2013:
Self-Insured Alternative Security Program Grows Nearly 25%, Officials Say

http://www.wcexec.com/Self-Insured-Alte ... s-Say.aspx

"..California’s alternative security program (ASP) for large, self-insured employers is operating this year with a net increase of nine new employers and is now covering workers’ comp security deposits worth a combined $7.7 billion. The 24.8% increase in the program’s coverage comes as its membership bumped up to 349 employers and the state tightened the rules for security deposits.

Under the ASP, member companies pay an annual fee to cover the fund’s operating needs and hedging expenses, and in exchange they can cover their workers’ comp security deposit needs for pennies on the dollar. Once admitted, employers are in the ASP for 12 months at a time and only have to post a security deposit if they are dropped from the program. Deposits can be in the form of cash, a letter of credit or other accepted collateral.

“Under SB 863, the new collateral deposit is based on the actuarial study and is intended to more fully reflect the total ultimate liabilities of the self-insurers,” says Jon Wroten, chief of the Department of Industrial Relations’ Office of Self Insurance Plans (OSIP) explaining part of the increase in deposits covered by the program. “Additionally, there are more companies in the ASP this year, and a number of additional companies’ liabilities are fully guaranteed under the ASP as opposed to last year when these same companies posted a portion of their required deposit separately with OSIP.”

Last year the program covered $6.17 billion in deposits and was populated by large corporations such as Safeway, the Walt Disney Company and Marriott International. Officials did not break down the individual components of the program’s growth or how much was tied to the new deposit rules.

Deposit Rules Tightened ....."