[Bill Cummings]

Mission Statement.
I seem to recall Bob posting the Torrey Hawks SOP that indicated that to be a T.H. You had to have flown without too much time having past since the pilots last flight at Torrey. Also requiring a H4 rating, to name two.

Did these stipulations take into account being trespassed from TPGP?
Also is USHPA membership a stipulation for Torrey Hawks?

Another thing unknown is if US Hawks membership requires some hang rating what would stop USHPA from issuing enough HG ratings to the PG pilots that would want voting status in the US Hawks?
The mission statement would have to be clear on this situation. (A Trojan hang rating.)

[JoeF]

Consider: USHHGA being supportive "self-regulation" (term used by FAA wish for the HG sport) where the "self" regulates, not a non-self corporation regulating. That is, the 100% responsibility deal goes to the effective dependence on the pilot to do his or her regulating. USHHGA would provide members with a place to self declare and discuss with mentors and other pilots about skills and conduct; yet the pilot would self regulate. Once in the air, the self is very important!. Encourage pilots to check with other pilots as skills are grown. Now, that is one of the oldest traditions of aviation. How did you do that? What do you see in my conduct and flight efforts? What is your opinion about the following: _______ ? Etc.
Different is a rating system that might involve the whole commercial overlay of fees, paperwork, authority, instruction systems, pride, dependence on cards and ink, etc. True self-regulation can get lost in the commercial complex, the money tree, the pride tree. Is one ready for this right now? No matter the rating or ink or fee or history: am I ready for this right now? Self-regulation.
No SOPs from the org whatsoever? Rather, each pilot enters the conversation, the study, the practice. Fulfill the FAA regs for airspace use. Learn piloting. Be open to showing self to others; stay a good listener. Prove one's readiness for what is about to happen right now.
Oh, I have an H8? Therefore, I can do this right now. Maybe not; the actual right-now scene needs to be appraised agains all right-now conditions, not whether the H8 is inked on a card or not.

[JoeF]

Would it be something to have in the Mission Statement something like:
Users of canopy high-aspect ratio parachutes (paragliders) are invited to explore joining USPA.

[Bill Cummings]

Would it be something to have in the Mission Statement something like:
Users of canopy high-aspect ratio parachutes (paragliders) are invited to explore joining USPA.

That would be fine. But also a statement that includes this:
The mission statement of the USHHGA (US Hawks Hang Gliding Association) needs a stronger filter than an invitation for PG’ers to go elsewhere.

Our history of the USHGA believing and advancing the, “safety in numbers,” argument allowed the USPGA Trojan horse past the gate because the USPGA needed the protection of the USHGA’s established third party insurance.

Not long ago the USHPA had to negotiate under a temporary insurance extension with its insurance company and agree to “Risk Mitigation” agreements and increase USHPA dues.

This mitigation agreement put a stop to a person with 35 years hang gliding experience that had let their USHPA membership expire put at risk the clubs site insurance of being canceled for providing a nose wire launch assist. A non-waiver nose-man on the launch ramp.

The risk mitigation stops a non-waiver volunteer spouse from holding a club officer position.

Instead of the RD’s throwing charges to expel members - look to the insurance company as the largest choke point, anchor, hobbling, to people willing to volunteer getting pilots into the air.

I ranted off topic a bit --sorry!
The topic is a Trojan hang rating by USHPA to gain voting rights at the US Hawks.
(Trojan me once - shame on them. Trojan me twice - shame on me.)

[Bill Cummings]

I move that work be done towards forming a USHHGA Mission Statement.
Maybe some preamble study: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_statement

Sample effort: =======================================

Mission Statement

USHHGA's mission is to serve airframed hang glider pilots in the United States of America in effective ways in order to support their safe and enjoyable hang gliding.

The association will forward its mission through:

Advocacy: USHHGA will communicate with agencies, organizations, and individuals whose interests affect airframed hang gliding recreation and sport.

Communication: Externally, USHHGA will advance the positive awareness of airframed hang gliding among the non-flying public. Internally, the organization will cultivate a culture of communication, fairness, and transparency.

Community: USHHGA will promote a sense of community among members.

Launch and Landing sites: USHHGA will support the development of new launching and landing sites for airframed hang gliding. USHHGA will act to help preserve existing launch and landing site agreements for airframed hang gliding.

Learning: USHHGA will support learning by providing online open ground schools for general and special-skill sectors, safety programs, and a pilot forums. Online written tests will assist in rating pilots' knowledge base. Mentorship including observation of flight practices will be encouraged among members to foster safety and learning.

Safety: USHHGA will steadily foster a culture of safety that aims to more than fulfill the     safety guides of the Federal Aviation Administration. USHHGA will maintain the message that each hang glider pilot is 100% responsible for his or her actions, equipment, launch decision safety check, and injuries/dames to self or others' person or property. Members will agree to hold USHHGA harmless in all instances of loss, damage, or injury. Hang gliding responsibly takes active awareness at all points of handling one's gear on the ground or in the air; even with great care, the activity of hang gliding may result in injury or death to pilots and others; and such risk is carried by the hang glider pilot entirely.

Clarity regarding aircraft: USHHGA will continually clarify that airframed hang gliders are very distinct from high-aspect-ratio collapsible parachutes (sometimes called paragliders). The clarification will occur in educational programs, news releases, and letters. USHHGA will not rate canopy-based parachuting activity.

  I second the motion   (work be done towards forming a USHHGA mission statement.)

HERE IS A REMINDER FROM PAGE #2 OF A "  SECOND  " TO JOE FAUST'S MOTION.
1) ARE THERE ANY   AMENDMENTS   TO BE MADE?
2) ARE WE READY TO   "VOTE"   AND ADD THIS DECISION TO FALL SOMEWHERE AMONG THE LIST OF ITEMS ON THE MISSION STATEMENT?

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks for keeping this going Bill!!!

I like what's there, but a few things aren't my favorite parts.

1. I like "US Hawks" rather than "USHHGA" when used in this kind of writing. I think "US Hawks" is clearer, more unique, and easier to remember than the alphabet soup equivalent. It's also what I'd like people to call us in common discussions, and so that's what I think we should call ourselves in this kind of document.

2. I think the term "Airframed" isn't needed because I believe it's commonly known (within the sport) that "hang gliders" are airframed and paragliders are not. That fact is sometimes confused by the general public, and that's something that we do need to work on. But saying "airframed hang gliding" leads to the impression that there is such a thing as "non-airframed hang gliding". I don't think such a thing exists, and I would support the definition that the term hang gliding implies an airframe. I don't think we want the general public to think of paragliding as a form of "non-airframed" hang gliding.

3. I also don't think we need the mission statement to distinguish our sport from non framed gliding any more than we need to distinguish it from skiing or golfing.

Would the maker(s) of the motion(s) entertain any friendly amendments to help with some of those concerns? I think however (from a parliamentary perspective) that since a motion has been made and seconded, that the people making and seconding have a right to a vote if they want one on the motion as it stands. So it's really up to Bill and Joe if they'd like this to be voted on. If it passes, then it passes. If it doesn't, then it could continue to be discussed.

[JoeF]

I support firm continued discussion; there are some core issues that are stretching us.
=========================================================================

1. U.S. Hawks could ride in such document.

2. The FAI is no little player. The confusion of what is hang gliding with respect to gliding canopy wings is more deep than what I get when I read Bob's take on what is understood in the sport and out of the sport. There are the mechanics also. Trusting that the confusion won't matter and won't work its way into org confusion may be asking too much. NASA language won't just disappear: their use of "paraglider" covered some distinctly airframed gliding systems.
The evolution of the FAI on "hang gliding" continues; at one point it had paragliding as Class 3 in "Hang Gliding" and then that Class 3 began to slide into paragraph sections with more pointed attention; now FAI's text has "Hang Gliding & Paragliding" but still carries the "Class 3" into the paragliding text. I am not a full friend of FAI that is mostly bent to sporting competition actions; FAI has shown willingness to support false history on hang gliding matters; FAI is not held to mechanical differences; FAI simple marches to what is best for FAI sporting authorizing. FAI does not attend to recreational and mechanical definitions except to support the popular flows of matters. FAI text NEED NOT RULE ANYONE, but FAI text has clout; FAI text affects press and public understanding, even if sometimes to the detriment of some hang gliding matters. I do not want FAI-sport definitions to rule wide-creative solo recreational hang gliding; the FAI is narrow and vanillaizing relative to the rich niche hang gliding potential that ever subsists for recreational and experimental hang glider people.

FAI: presently: (font size by me for notice)

1.5 General Requirements for Hang Gliders
1.5.1 Definitions of hang gliders, as per General section.
A glider capable of being carried, foot launched and landed solely by the use of the pilot’s legs.
1.5.1.1 Hang glider classes
Class 1: Hang gliders having a rigid primary structure with pilot weight-shift as the sole method of control, and
which are able to demonstrate consistent ability to safely take-off and land in nil-wind conditions. Subsidiary
controls affecting trim and/or drag are permitted, but only if they operate symmetrically.

Sport Class: a sub-class of Class 1. All gliders must meet the Class 1 definition above and in addition:
 They must be production models of hang gliders for which a certificate of airworthiness for type is
in issue from either the HGMA, BHPA or DHV.
 Must be currently available for sale to the general public or have previously been available for sale
for a minimum period of one year.
 Must be constructed of original parts only, except for retro-fitted streamlined uprights and base
tubes supplied by the manufacturer.
 Must have a king post which is an essential part of the design and which supports the majority of
the wing load when the wing is not flying.
 Pitch stability devices must be within the manufacturer's stated tolerances.
 The pilot must be within the manufacturer's stated weight range.

Class 2 Hang gliders having a rigid primary structure with movable aerodynamic surfaces as the primary
method of control, and which are able to demonstrate consistent ability to safely take-off and land in nil-wind
conditions solely by the use of the pilot’s legs. Chapter 19 states the procedures for proving this ability.

Class 3: Hang gliders having no rigid primary structure (paragliders), and which are able to demonstrate
consistent ability to safely take-off and land in nil-wind conditions. This class is not considered further in this
sub-section.

Class 4: Hang gliders that are unable to demonstrate consistent ability to safely take-off and/or land in nilwind
conditions, but otherwise are capable of being launched and landed solely by the use of the pilots legs.

Class 5: Hang gliders having a rigid primary structure with movable aerodynamic surfaces as the primary
method of control in the roll axis and which are able to demonstrate consistent ability to safely take-off and
land in nil-wind conditions solely by the use of the pilot’s legs. No pilot fairings are permitted. No pilot
surrounding structures are permitted, apart from a harness and control frame.

==============
FAI has two commissions, one for rigid primary structure hang gliders and
a different commission for the non-rigid primary structure Class 3 paragliders.

FAI is not in the business of facing PDMC; FAI simply does what works for sporting operations of anything that flies and forms flight records that FAI may bring under its "authority."

And FAI controlling symmetrical or non-symmetrical control devices is symptomatic of FAI be inappropriate for what a recreational solo hang gliding flow could be. FAI is for FAI. Differently a rich hang glider recreational flow may fully ignore everything FAI writes and controls. FAI has zero authority over solo recreational hang gliding. It is just that when a sportsman wants to fulfill FAI matters that FAI matters.

===============
Framing canopies? Experiments have occurred. And more will occur. But the non-coupling of pilot mass with such explored frames persist in those experiments, except for the long-strut experiments.
Coupling pilot with rigid airframe?
===============================

Culture? There seems to be a significant culture challenge that has been forming in "HG&PG" groups and sites, where much of the "HG" factions are adopting significant "blind" to HG history, options, niche activity while being pimped by the clout that paragliding is obtaining. Airspace holding hang gliders and paragliders will continue to confuse minds and culture. How will U. S. Hawks face the culture nuances and wing distinction? Bob's experience seems to cause no confusion inside him; he obtained instruction in both PG and HG; he purchased a craft in each realm; he flew both craft types, etc. Others still carry some confusion; for me, if the pilot does not have grab-coupling with a non-collapsing wing, but only has string coupling with a wing (collapsible or not, airframed or not) then "para-kite" and "para-glider" persists. Somehow, I am hoping U. S. Hawks will be able to define itself to keep pilot-grab-coupling with wings that keep their airfoil shapes when the systems enter wind helicities; the string-controlled shape-losing high-aspect ratio canopy wings do not have pilot-grab-airframe mechanics and do not have shape-keeping when facing atmospheric helicities. The string and non-shape-keeping has provided a mass production of wings and low-mass and low-pack bag attraction that blinds to PDMC. A crumpled pile of fabric as "wing" is way different from a shape-keeping pilot-grabbed-coupled wing. Advances in the manufacture of pilot-grabbed-coupled shape-keeping wings will provide some options that pack even in less volume than current big-rag PGs.

Notice that FAI has not cared about non-nil-wind conditions for the paragliders; such non-nil-wind matters are important for safety! How does the flight system operate in natural wind conditions where helicities are normal and common? The PDMC is important in real natural wind environments; there is almost never nil-wind conditions in the real world! Helicities happen and will keep happening!

What to do? How to word a mission statement to distinguish flight systems. HGs will share airspace with balloons and jets; but HGs more intimately share some launches and LZs with PGs.
=============================
=============================
So, action? Trial phrasing of mission statements that hone in on SOMETHING?
Can the pilot keep grabbing a wing that keeps its shape in atmospheric helicities? If so, form a solo recreation around such system and do not have the PDMC.
If the pilot cannot grab a wing or has a wing that cannot keep its shape in atmospheric helicities, then form a solo recreation around such system and face the PDMC.

???
==================================
==================================
TRIAL PHRASING:
===============
U. S. Hawks forward and focus on needs of non-powered, non-towed, and non-tandem hang-glider pilots who solo recreate glide with pilot-carryable and pilot-launchable wings, and from which the pilot hangs that keep shape during involvement with atmospheric helicities and remain manually coupled with the pilot for flight control. The served flight systems are not shape-losing string-controlled high-aspect-ratio parachutes that suffer the PDMC and absence of a firm coupling of pilot mass with the wing.

[Bob Kuczewski]

I support firm continued discussion; there are some core issues that are stretching us.

That's a great statement Joe!! Part of the reason the HGAA spiralled into the ground was due to the intense pressure to produce an organization RIGHT NOW. This topic has risen and fallen in our attention as we continue to consider these discussions ... as they stretch us.

People are often inclined to define any organization around what THEY do. If I were following that inclination, we would have no towing and no tandems since I don't do either. But where does that leave Sam who needs to tow in Texas? Where does that leave Joe Greblo who has an excellent tandem training program (not a joy-riding program). I don't want to doom those people to USHPA.

With regard to the definition of "hang glider", I think it's fine to define it somewhere so it's clear what we're talking about. Of course, the world that we can observe holds the possibility of a continuum of gliders where we might have a hard time drawing a line between paraglider and hang glider. Imagine, for example, today's paraglider made from highly rigid stiffeners and even highly rigid lines. Would that circumvent the definition you've proposed?

I tend to agree with the sentiment that "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it".

Fortunately, right now the separation between the two wing types is fairly clear, and I think we could define it with a picture of a Falcon labelled with "Hang Glider". I think anything beyond that could be handled on a case by case basis by the Board. Furthermore, the US Hawks is primarily a US organization. I think we have the right to rely on our US English definitions of hang glider and paraglider.

Having said all of that, I'll go back to where I started. This topic is stretching us, and that's good. I'm still stretchable, so please feel free to offer counter arguments. That's why we're here.   

[Bob Kuczewski]

P.S. I just looked up "hang gliding" on Wikipedia:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hang_gliding

Comparison of gliders, hang gliders and paragliders

There can be confusion between gliders, hang gliders, and paragliders. Paragliders and hang gliders are both foot-launched glider aircraft and in both cases the pilot is suspended ("hangs") below the lift surface, but "hang glider" is the default term for those where the airframe contains rigid structures. The primary structure of paragliders is supple, consisting mainly of woven material.

Also, in the United States, USHPA has given us a fairly clear distinction in their issuing of separate ratings for the two wing types. I haven't read their definition that separates the two, but the fact that we honor their hang gliding ratings indicates that we are implicitly accepting their definition.

[JoeF]

1. Wikipedia ebbs and flows depending on editors involved. Wikipedia is not about accuracy of mechanics, but consensus of participating editors. Change the editors and one may get fully changed articles.

2. There have been some significant essays arguing that paragliders are a type of hang glider. I have promoted the thesis that paragliders (soaring high aspect ratio parachute-like) are a type of hang glider. Pilots glide and hang from wing in the PGs: hence hang glider. Altering focus and forming new definitions do not change the aeromechanical facts of the systems. Leaving the matter up to subjective nuances keeps the door open for revamping a focused org; what is now a good feeling might not be a good feeling for another in some tomorrow. String as flexible matter may be defined mechanically probably so that it differs from rigid struts; the proposed PGmod that has stiff rods for hang members bifurcates to those with hinging and those with rigid pyramidal coupling with parasol wing. The type of hang glider that is an Ozone paraglider or often just said: "glider" that is string controlled from hung pilot using non-shape-keeping wing may grow in a culture to use up attention energy that is huge; such type of hang glider may not be the type of hang glider that U. S. Hawks want to spend its energy. If not, then distinction by mechanical principles can probably resolve matters. Once a focused org is firmly onto a certain realm, there might be finally no interested members; the org would vanish in a sense; that could be OK; let new interests have their orgs. Types of hang gliders exist; some are better at some things than other things; the PG type has the PDMC challenge. Will non-PG HG org thrive?

3. https://www.justia.com/trials-litigatio ... /1010.html
Civil Code section 846 is discussed

4. Alternative: An org that builds upon a no-insurance platform while giving strong responsible respect to landowners relative to the immunity that is not promulgated to some extent in EVERY state of USA.

5. Alternative: one simple rating only: HGP regardless of launch method. Call out each launch method as deserving of super focused respect: foot, incline, cliff, windy cliff, scooter-tow, vehicle tow, boat tow, aircraft tow, kite-system drop, balloon drop, electric motor aboard assist, ICE aboard assist, jet-aboard assist, catapult, platform vehicle, bungee, ... Have no 3PL insurance program affiliated with the information-education-communication org; have no rating system, just have skill information ever advancing and shared in a deposit; encourage free mentorship culture; encourage a culture of listening to the deposit of information; encourage each to open to observation and comment by others. Be a place where information and discussion is shared on gliders that have the hanging pilot firmly coupled for control with a shape-keeping wing. Run a commercial operation: reach for the business insurance needed. Run a physical assembly by invitation for whatever purpose (competition, promotion, commerce): reach for the insurance needed. Tandem: reach for FAR exemption and liability insurance as needed. The core org need not get into insurance or rating of hundreds of special skills; the core org need not run or sanction any assembly event; the action of inviting an assembly to form draws its own special duties of care; the information-education-communication org need not do or provide the liability coverage for those special events or commercial operations. Forget copying some has-been org. Protect sites for recreation by way of respectful responsible good conduct; move all energies to have a low incident rate. Controlled sites that charge and invite are entities unto themselves; let them be in peace to run their show as they wish. But let USA citizens recreate: walk, hike, fly, dance, jump, surf, jump rope, kite fly, run with balloons, picnic, roll, leap, ... All launch methods may have forum spaces, article deposits ... Do not let the insurance industry push powered hang gliding away (towing and AT are actually powered systems; eHG is powered system). Recreate powered or unpowered.

What would such a USH org do? Sparkle as a place to share good information, stories, critiques, articles of how-to-be-respectful-and-responsible-recreational-users-of-lands-in-USA. Honors can be given. Accents on skill development may be highlighted. New ideas can be shared. Plans can be shared. Donations for special needs may be promoted. Work parties may be encouraged. Communications of special design may be formulated and accomplished. Studies on any aspect of HG may be posted and discussed. No need to control individual recreating hang glider pilots! Openly discuss and learn from incidents and accidents and other challenges. Ever a need to share good information and to encourage effective good actions and habits. Have topic threads on any aspect or niche type hang glider activity or wing system. Get off the habit of thinking and acting as though the only way to have HG is through controlled and charged and depressed LZs; rather, open to millions of LZs that are not controlled. Have friends that equitably recreate as equal citizens without charge or event-forming. When commercial events and controlled events do occur, then simply meet the requirements of the controlling authorities; play marbles at the marble store and follow the store-manager's requirement. Let not stores and controllers blind one to playing marbles outside the store in the larger world.