[JoeF]

The Jonathan Dietch flow for hang gliding had its beginning in 1964.
Details and discussion of the full flow to present day is invited by all.
Chronological order of topics and notes in the flow are not needed.
Today in 2012 the world is being gifted by the hang gliding videography of NMERider,
Lowsaves, and Jonathan Dietch (the three are facets of the same flowing flyer.
The sensitivities evident radiant from a long experience in active wind-involved
sports, equipment designing and manufacturing, and solid personal needs and
drives to explore and share while achieving a balance of interests and health respects
in his own life. His generosity in time and sport-community sharing has affected
many people. We anticipate a robust run of posts in order to save the treasure
that NMERider has been and yet is. What do you know? What story do you have
to show this flow of influence in hang gliding?

Random start with a video: Seedwings USA - Sensor 610 - Jonathon Dietch
[Seedwings]
See one of his contemporary channels: Vicarious Hang Gliding

[JoeF]

Jonathan Dietch has had a rich experience of designing and building his own hang gliders in the "early days" of the 1960s-70s HG renaissance.
Enjoy his sharing at
http://imageevent.com/aero92/gliders

Jonathan has recently been awarded by the World Hang Gliding Association
the prestigious Flex-Wing Hang Glider Gold Air Award for his exemplary participation in forwarding hang gliding in a very positive manner.

[SamKellner]

Congrats to Jonathan on the Gold Air Award

I always enjoy the videos. Lots of helpful remarks in his posts that I see.

[Bill Cummings]

Jonathan also deserves a Gold Video Award as well.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Jonathan also deserves a Gold Video Award as well.

Ditto!!! His video work is excellent!!!   

[JoeF]

Jonathan at age 18

1976 Skateboard Sailing w/ Shelley Long
Get just past the intro to find Jonathan at his finest ...



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In California circa year ... Jamie Budge who took video of my Seagull III flights in Malibu:
Video is of a mature product production. Jamie did some hang gliding.


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An oft asked question : Which J came first: Jonathan or Jamie ? And have the two met face-to-face?
I am getting 1976 hits for Jonathan, while getting 1977 hits for Jamie. Did Jamie ever see any news regarding Jonathan???
Boy's Life Magzine, March, 1980, mentions in story : "three years ago"

BoysLifeMarch1980editon.JPG (27 KiB) Viewed 11599 times

Jamie did some hang gliding, but became Mr. Wind Skate. Jonathan has continue hang gliding forever and has become Mr. HG Video guy.
I've been in photos with both J's and find them both full of creative energy. Jamie filmed my near-horrendous top landing of a Seagull III in the early 1970s.

http://www.windskate.com/
Jamie Budge, circa 1977

JamieBudge1977circa.JPG (25.64 KiB) Viewed 11599 times

"like hang gliding on the ground" ... Jamie Budge
=================================
tag: skate sailing, skateboard sailing, land windsurfing, land windskating,


===============
Historical ice-skating with held sail is nearly ancient.

="See photo at http://www.historybyzim.com/tag/winter/"Man in ice skates, a basket, and a sail is shown here between 1910 and 1915 “ice sailing.”

LibraryOfCongress1910to1915icesailing.jpg (86.24 KiB) Viewed 11599 times

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Skim Over The Ice With… A SKATER’S SAIL (Feb, 1959)

Sailbike – PROPELLED BY WIND, ODD BEACH VEHICLE GIVES THRILL RIDE (Oct, 1939)

[JoeF]

Comment by Jonathan in February 2016:
I started in 1974. Not sure when Jamie got going. Totally different sails and approaches.

========================================
Discussion of the difference would be interesting.

[JoeF]

May 31, 2016, Vicarious Icarus joined lift with a U. S. Hawk
High resolution still from video regarding the hawk:http://tinyurl.com/USHawknVicariousIcarusMay3116

Vicarious Icarus is one of the video platform names for Jonathan Dietch.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Here are some quotes from Jonathan Dietch from hanggliding.org talking about Torrey Pines:

Let's face reality. HGs don't bring money into the hands of the Torrey Concessionaire. New PGs generate the revenue. HGs mainly take up space that could be put to more financially rewarding use. It's pretty basic business. Think of it as aisle space in your supermarket. You want to smallest and highest turnover products using the premium shelf space. The low-profit jumbo bags of popcorn and other crap can all go in some remote area of the store. 

Hang gliders generate very little revenue for the Torrey concession. We don't amount to a hill of beans. Not there. Yes, LMFP and Blue Sky bring in a lot of HGs. That's all good. I don't know who's keeping score on the numbers.

In case you weren't already aware of it, the concession at Torrey probably makes a small fraction of its revenue from HGs. My guess is the only reason they allow us there is because of the way the SD municipal code is written. Otherwise it may be PG only. It's not a USHPA regulated site. They probably pay a pretty penny for their liability insurance and the HG revenue only covers a small percentage of that. 

Face it Jason. There are places where we don't matter. Torrey is one of those places. They don't need us down there. Let's not bite the hand that lets us fly. Haven't we lost enough sites?

First, it's disgusting that Jonathan Dietch would throw hang gliding under the bus because we're the smaller slice of some economic pie. More importantly, it displays his broken logic. If economic gain were the purpose of our public lands then we wouldn't have any public beaches, public parks, and certainly no public flying sites (hang gliding or paragliding).

The topic continued and Jonathan further demonstrated how completely wrong he could be in this exchange with Brian Scharp:

Who said it was a carnival?

Dennis and I.

Now it's some sort of revenue source staring PG guys throwing people off for cash and making it unwelcome for one HG pilot who deserves what he got. And now SG should stop us from talking about that place altogether. That better?

...And now SG should stop us from talking about that place altogether. That better?

Crap, man. You made me laugh so hard I've got tears in my eyes.

Next time I feel depressed I'm calling you!! I'll bet sg is laughing so hard he isn't getting any work done either.

Brian's predictive abilities and Jonathan's lack thereof were demonstrated at the end of that topic:

THREAD CLOSED

All Bob drama and crazyness is banned from this forum.

Jonathan Dietch should be remembered as an example of what's gone severely wrong in the sport of hang gliding.

[Bob Kuczewski]

There's a wealth of history to be discovered swirling around the Jonathan Dietch (a.k.a. NMERider) Flow. Here's some discussion about Torrey Pines involving Jonathan Dietch from hanggliding.org:

A small cadre of HGs have gone out of their way to give the place a bad name.

I don't think the place has a bad name, but there is no question that lots of people there hate Bob with a passion. And I'm not going to try and say that he hasn't brought most of that upon himself. The reality is that much of what Bob is actively fighting for is quietly supported by many HG pilots. I'm the president of the Torrey Hawks, but I have neither the time nor desire to do more than lobby for change at Torrey, where Bob puts in real time. By that I mean days a month of time. There is no harder working volunteer for hang gliding that I have met. Most of what he wants, HG pilots want; fair representation at Torrey and some kind of oversight over the Concessionaire.

Right now there is no oversight at all. You got a problem with how the park is run, who do you call? Call the City Park and Rec department, they send you to the Concessionaire. Call the Real Estate Assets department, they send you to the Concessionaire. If you have a complaint about rules, safety, prices, anything, your only stop is the Concessionaire. That would be fine if this was a private flight park, but it is not and the Concessionaire couldn't give a crap whether you think something is fair or not.

By and large, most people fly there don't have a problem. But if you want to fly Tandems out of that PUBLIC park, the Concessionaire will charge you as much as he charges a member of the public. Legal? No, the prices are listed in the lease and a tandem pilot can't be charged more than what is listed according to the lease. Think the Concessionaire cares what the lease says? Nope, he has stated in a Torrey Council meeting that he can charge what ever he wants. Who do you complain to about this? 

So anyway I forgive those of you who are ignorant or could simply care less about the problems that have existed at Torrey for a long time, you simply see one side or just don't understand why Bob would spend so much time on this. Bob almost quit and moved back to Florida a few years ago, but the Concessionaire, through his actions, changed Bob's mind and Bob is still at it, hopeless though it may be. I don't agree with Bob's methods all of the time and I think he can be a bull in a china shop with the way he berates people in emails, but he is actually fighting for what he and many others believe is the right thing.

All Bob had to do was snap one photo and complain to any of the 3 RDs and leave it at that. But he didn't. And now the rest of the community will suffer the consequences, if any.

Has that ever worked, that you know of ?

If the community at large can let their general irritation with Bob justify the sort of behavior the Jebbs exhibit, then maybe the community at large has earned those consequences.

TjW's comment was exactly right. I had complained to all of the Directors and nothing was done. Jonathan never did answer TjW's question.