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Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby dhmartens » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:30 pm

As far as I know Ushpa has offered Bobk his membership and insurance if he signs a "gag order". If he does this all is well and we transition to the RRG June 1st and we all get to keep flying. If Bob refuses, or if the "Gag order" contains non compete rules, or if somehow legally attacking the RRG enters into it this all becomes more complicated, like a contested convention. California could react adversely which could effect the future of flying, Hang glider factories, schools, etc. My advise is for Bobk to sign the Gag order and deal with it later with the RRG after it is borne as not to disrupt the Hang Gliding Economy.

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Re: Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby SamKellner » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:39 am

dhmartens wrote:As far as I know


How did you come by this information :?:

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Re: Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby Rick Masters » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:07 am

If he does this all is well

I see. The problem has been BobK and only BobK all along.
But isn't this exactly the same thing that BobK faced in the first place?
And when BobK relinquishes his First Amendment rights (is that possible?), then we can all expect the insurance rates to go down since BobK was the only problem?
Is that the logic?
It says a lot more about the USHPA than it does about BobK.
Bribing members with rights to fly in total contradiction of the FARs is toxic to the sport of hang gliding.
I encourage hang glider pilots to form an alternative national association.
That's what the USHPA BOD really wants to stop.
They said so.
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Re: Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby wingspan33 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:19 am

Bob decides how he wants to handle things, as any of us have the right to decide for ourselves.

As for me, if I were faced with a "You can come back if you agree to a 'Gag Order'." I wouldn't agree and would not re-join as what could be called a second class member.

I quit the USHPA because a local U$hPa Chapter allowed one of it's members to block me from participation in the Chapter's defacto communication medium (basically their interactive online Newsletter).

Ten years ago the Chapter terminated their Newsletter (required under their NFP Corporate Bylaws!) and began using an online version. It involved a Yahoo Group web site which was "owned" by this individual Chapter member (who seldom even flew). He, essentially was the Yahoo Group site's "dictator".

The Chapter's Bylaws describe that every member will have equal access to club functions. Yet being blocked from communicating with my fellow Chapter members violated more than one Bylaw. The Chapter leadership decided that they couldn't do anything about the situation since the Chapter didn't "own" the Yahoo Group.

In the end, I had to accept being a second class U$hPa Chapter member, or quit the Chapter. I decided to not only quit the Chapter but also the USHPA since my local Regional Director refused to pressure the Chapter into complying with its own NFP Corporate Bylaws, and, beyond that, U$hPa's own SOPs connected with Chapters and how they must conduct business.

So, I wonder, why would anyone accept a "deal" where they are treated in any way differently than any other U$hPa member? To accept such a deal could be seen, in this case, as an implied admission of guilt on Bob's part. In addition to that, denying a person their freedom of speech, as a condition of their membership, is also a denial of a fundamental US civil right.

Nobody "wins" when the U$hPa begins to create conditions of membership that violate the basic principles of our nation.
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MY opinion ~ Gag this

Postby eagle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:02 am

BOB should stand ground. use this leverage to take back our Site's for everyone

Destroying the USHPA ultimate control & say so.
We are held hostage & under control of a Greedy Political TYRANT/DICTATOR and the USHPA (the Association is Not a club)

If the USHPA want to stay in the game ~ its time to give us back back our sport . (A GAG Compromise ~ Proves they're Wrong)
The Gliderport & USPGA has used the Gag deal to shut people up & continue their dominant abuse of Power (RACKETEERING)

Im Sure the USHPA are Laughing at US & would like to eliminate anyone in the Way

Pilots Voice.jpg
Pilots Voice.jpg (73.03 KiB) Viewed 5653 times

Note's ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We are forced to join a club for insurance we don't really need... Under California's Recreation Law
We are forced to sign waivers, that make claims against the Gliderport or USHPA nearly impossible

WE/THEY have left injured pilots, Joyriders & others harmed, with little or No HELP (without a care)

We have No say in the USHPA decisions and are under a threat for speaking out. (VIOLENCE & Flying Rights)
We have No control over safety of our site or pilot reprimand. (personally I've been endangered in More than ONE WAY)
We have NO oversight of CRASH reports (false reporting)

We have Lost Any say so or control over the sport of Hang Gliding
We have been lost our control or say so of our Hang glider Shop, Storage areas, General Gliderport Operations.
We have No Control of Price Gouging for site Use.

We have No control over, Who get to do Tandems or Teach. (Discriminatory)

************** THIS LIST COULD GO ON AND ON ****************** WARNING, COULD EVEN GO VIRAL ***************
Last edited by eagle on Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:11 am

Doug had posted his comment on both the US Hawks and the Sylmar Hang Gliding Association (SHGA) forum. Thanks Doug. :salute:

I just finished posting my reply to the SHGA forum before I read this topic here on US Hawks. For the record, here's what I wrote on the SHGA forum:

dhmartens wrote:As far as I know Ushpa has offered Bobk his membership and insurance if he signs a "gag order".


I haven't heard anything about this. Are you free to share your sources?

While I value my ability to fly very much, I would never trade my constitutional right to speak for anything USHPA could offer me. I think they know that, and that's why there has never been such an offer ... as far as I know.

Now it wouldn't surprise me, if some USHPA mouthpiece were going around saying "Bob could fly again if he'd just agree not to be so critical of USHPA". That kind of statement makes it look like they're trying to be reasonable. But demanding silence in order to participate in the sport of hang gliding is not reasonable. Those who would trade their freedoms for security shall have neither.

USHPA has mismanaged their monopoly for decades and we're seeing the consequences all around us. Their desperation to silence and discredit me is symptomatic of their failure to manage our sports properly.


I think that's in complete agreement with the comments by Sam (THANKS :salute: ), Rick (THANKS :salute: ), Scott (THANKS :salute: ), and Ernie (THANKS :salute: ).

I have no idea what's going to happen to the sport of hang gliding, but it has been a great privilege to know the good men and women who post on this forum. That transcends any insurance policy or rating that USHPA could ever sell me.

All of your comments are right on target, and I am honored to stand shoulder to shoulder with such a great group of people.

:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:
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Re: Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby Bill Cummings » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:21 am

My USHPA membership is set to run out at the end of this month.
Weighing heavily on the balance of will I renew or not are two primary issues.
1) Bob K regains unfettered unencumbered USHPA membership if he desires it.
2) Disciplinary action for Gabe at Torrey Pines for violation of the USHPA'S SOP.
The many other issues I have with USHPA are still elbowing for next in line position on my list.
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Re: Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby Rick Masters » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:19 pm

Gag order or Extortion?

gag order
n. a judge's order prohibiting the attorneys and the parties to a pending lawsuit or criminal prosecution from talking to the media or the public about the case. The supposed intent is to prevent prejudice due to pre-trial publicity which would influence potential jurors. A gag order has the secondary purpose of preventing the lawyers from trying the case in the press and on television, and thus creating a public mood (which could get ugly) in favor of one party or the other. Based on the "freedom of the press" provision of the First Amendment, the court cannot constitutionally restrict the media from printing or broadcasting information about the case, so the only way is to put a gag on the participants under the court's control. A gag order can also be made by an executive agency such as when President George Bush issued a gag order which forbade federally funded health clinics from giving out information about abortions, a gag order which President Bill Clinton rescinded on his first day in office, January 22, 1993.

extortion
n. obtaining money or property by threat to a victim's property or loved ones, intimidation, or false claim of a right (such as pretending to be an IRS agent). It is a felony in all states, except that a direct threat to harm the victim is usually treated as the crime of robbery. Blackmail is a form of extortion in which the threat is to expose embarrassing, damaging information to family, friends or the public.

-----------------

Extortion is a crime in which one person forces another person to do something against his will, generally to give up money or other property, by threat of violence, property damage, damage to the person’s reputation, or extreme financial hardship. Extortion involves the victim’s consent to the crime, but that consent is obtained illegally.

Examples of Extortion
A classic example of extortion is the “protection” scheme where figures with ties to organized crime demand that shop owners pay for their protection to prevent something bad (such as an assault on the shopkeeper or damage to his or her store or goods) from happening. Many states also consider blackmail, where a victim is forced to pay someone to prevent them from releasing information that could damage their reputation or their business, to be a form of extortion.

Typically, as in those examples, extortion involves threats of future violence or harm rather than immediate violence or harm, but extortion can involve immediate violence. For example, it would still be extortion if the offenders in the above example assaulted the shopkeeper to force him to pay them the required protection money instead of threatening to do so in the future. In such cases, extortion becomes very similar to robbery.

Differences Between Extortion and Robbery
One distinction between extortion and robbery is that extortion requires that the offender make a verbal or written threat, while robbery does not. Since extortion rarely involves immediate harm, however, the crimes typically can be distinguished because a robber uses immediate threats and force to steal the victim’s property, while in extortion, the victim willingly hands over his money or personal property in order to avoid future damage or violence.

Understanding the Degrees of Extortion
All fifty states have varying laws regarding extortion, with most states classifying it as a felony. Some states charge the crime as a theft offense, while others call it “attempted extortion,” “extortion in the first degree,” or “extortion in the second degree.” In the few states that split extortion into degrees, extortion in the first degree usually involves threats of bodily harm or physical confinement, while extortion in the second degree applies to threatening to accuse a person of a crime or to expose a secret.

Penalties for Extortion
Penalties for extortion vary widely in different states and depend on the severity of the threats involved, but sentences generally range between 2 to 4 years. However, many states allow for sentences of 5, 10, or even 20 years. If any instrument of interstate commerce (such as the mail, a phone, or a computer) is used in commission of the crime, it also becomes a federal crime with a fine or sentence of up to 20 years.

Proving Extortion
The specific elements required to prove extortion differ between states, but the general requirements are that the offender maliciously (not mistakenly) make a verbal, written or printed threat with the intent to extort something from the victim or to compel the victim to do something against his or her will. Generally, it is irrelevant whether or not the offender actually succeeds in the attempted extortion. Once the threat is made, the offender has committed extortion. In some jurisdictions, and under the federal extortion definition, the victim does not even have to hear or receive the threat in order for the offender to be charged with extortion.

Extortion does not usually require that the offender threaten to commit a criminal act as long as the threat attempts to obtain money, property, or to force the victim to act against their will. For example, a threat to bring criminal charges or file a police report unless money is paid is still extortion, even though the offender may have every right to file a police report. By coupling the legal act with the illegal act of demanding payment to not act, the offender has committed extortion. Note, however, that a threat to file a civil lawsuit typically is not considered extortion even if that lawsuit is frivolous.

The threat also does not have to be directed at the victim. It is still extortion if the threat is directed towards the victim’s family or if it threatens to release information about some third party the victim seeks to protect.
http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/crim ... ortion.htm
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Re: Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby wingspan33 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:16 pm

Sounds like extortion to me.

But then, we should all take note that this seeming "proposal" is coming from where? Out of the ether perhaps? Rumors sometimes pop up out of nowhere and have no real truth or validity behind them.
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Re: Bobk Gag order and Ushpa RRG in California

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:50 pm

RickMasters wrote:Gag order or Extortion?


Extortion.
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