[MikeLake]

Verbose posts might take a bit more enthusiasm to follow, but Jesus just take a quick look at some of smart arse, evasive, unhelpful, curt, “see how clever I am” one or two liners here. (The last two pages (6&7) will do.)

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22464

You will soon know who I am talking about (but I’m saying nothing).

I agree 100% Tad’s posts can be long winded, perhaps too long winded, and sometimes gems of information can be missed as they are buried deep amongst the text and profanities. This is a shame.
But at least Tad’s posts include the relevant text from other postings instead of supplying just a link to dozens of pages of other text that a reader is expected to wade through to pick up a tiny bit of information relevant to the context under discussion.
I, for one, just can’t be arsed to do that and soon get fed up being bounced around the Internet when just a bit of cut & past would make my life just a bit easier, but of course, that would not be nearly smart arse enough.

Verbose posts can be hard work but as long as there is some useful content they are not such a waste of time as posts that say nothing and where the poster thinks it’s clever to say nothing with the minimum amount of carriage return/line feeds.

On balance I know what I prefer to read and who I would consider an unhelpful sp*nk for brains wan**r.

I apologise in advance for this, my most aggressive post ever.

Also off topic sorry.

[DarthVader]

DannyJones, new hang 4

Being that John was still very new to flying in the prone position, I believe that he was likely not shifting his weight, but simply turning his body in the direction he wanted to turn. Because his altitude was nearly eye level for me, it's difficult to judge what his body was doing in the turn. And because the turn was smooth throughout, it would make sense that he was cross controlling the turn. It was also supported by

Dan's observations

It was just a matter of months that Dan would find himself in the same situation as John Seward did, with the glider's left wing poped, Dan Trashed the glider on the side of the launcing area at PackSattle. Reason: launching in high winds 25 gusting 35 mph and inexperienced wire man, Dan suffered head injuries with memory being loss, and is now recovering and thinking of getting back in the sport of hang gliding in the near future, nothing was posted on this issuse that I could find, and was kept undercover till now, the instructor that gave him the ratings did not want his name mentioned.

[DarthVader]

MikeLake

did not understand what you wrote on your post

You will soon know who I am talking about (but I’m saying nothing).

?????

Verbose posts can be hard work but as long as there is some useful content they are not such a waste of time as posts that say nothing and where the poster thinks it’s clever to say nothing with the minimum amount of carriage return/line feeds

. ????

[TadEareckson]

If you scrimp on the up-front costs of a tow system - or space shuttle - you're always gonna pay more for it a short way down the road in terms of dollars, airtime, and casualties.

And you'll find the same thing with the discussions. If the work is done by the participants initially so that all the issues get addressed early in the game a lot less bandwidth will be eaten up in the long run by having to repeat attempts at explanation ad nauseam and do Groundhog Day threads extending deepest sympathies to families and respecting their assumed wishes that the "accidents" not be discussed.

It was just a matter of months that Dan...

Damn. I wish I had known about that one while I was doing battle with the Houston club last fall. I coulda had so much more fun.

...would find himself in the same situation as John Seward did...

Similar situation but - and outcome - but for quite different reasons in quite different conditions.

Reason: launching in high winds 25 gusting 35 mph and inexperienced wire man...

It's possible that that could be edited down to:

Reason: launching in 25 gusting 35 mph.

Seems to me that if you reduced both of those numbers by ten it might still be a little dicey on launch.

...inexperienced wire man...

I hope that doesn't mean that he only had one guy on crew.

...nothing was posted on this issuse that I could find, and was kept undercover till now...

Isn't that interesting. Somebody gets his helmeted head rearranged badly enough to put him out of commission for the better part of a year so far and that community manages to keep it totally under wraps until now. Nixon could definitely have used a few good men like that.

...the instructor that gave him the ratings did not want his name mentioned.

1. Why not? Has he got something to hide?

2. Anybody who's a current USHGA member shouldn't have much trouble finding and mentioning his name.

[MikeLake]

MikeLake

did not understand what you wrote on your post

You will soon know who I am talking about (but I’m saying nothing).

?????

Verbose posts can be hard work but as long as there is some useful content they are not such a waste of time as posts that say nothing and where the poster thinks it’s clever to say nothing with the minimum amount of carriage return/line feeds

. ????

Please forgive my off topic rant

[Bob Kuczewski]

Also off topic sorry.

Actually, I think I had wandered pretty far from "Nate's minor accident at PackSaddle" before you did. Sorry for that.

But since we've opened the "Tad" topic, let me offer my thoughts ...

I first heard of Tad when I was Regional Director and the USHPA Board was discussing how to "handle" him. They were considering some kind of injunction against him speaking to the FAA. One Director wrote:

We need to consider getting an injunction against this guy communicating with the FAA on this subject.

Another wrote (referring to USHPA's lawyer, Tim Herr):

I forwarded the letter to Tim Herr yesterday asking about this.

Yet another wrote:

Perhaps a strongly worded letter from Tim will do the trick. We can't force Tad to work within the USHPA framework but we can make it unpleasant and expensive for him if he chooses to makes derogatory and false statements about USHPA to the FAA he can't back up.

If I understand the previous comments, his sending USHPA a draft letter is an indication of willingness to engage in some dialogue before going to the FAA.

Good luck with this guy!

I didn't like the idea of legal threats against our members, so I chimed in by seizing on the positive portion of that message and suggesting that we take the high road:

[The other Director] wrote:

"his sending USHPA a draft letter is an indication of willingness to engage in some dialogue before going to the FAA."

I agree with that sentiment, and I think it would be wise for USHPA to ask Mr. Eareckson what it is specifically that he is seeking. I don't think trying to silence him with an injunction is a good start.

After that, there was a discussion about having another Director contact Tad. Here's what I wrote when casting my vote:

I cast my vote for having Dennis write a letter to Mr. Eareckson as he suggested. Mr. Eareckson is obviously intelligent and passionate, and we can certainly use those qualities if we can harness them in a positive direction. If Dennis can do this, then that's the win-win solution. Another invitation to attend (or even present) at the next Towing Committee meeting might also be a good idea. I vote for inclusivity over litigation.

You can read those posts at: http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1250#p1250

So that's how I first heard of Tad Eareckson. I didn't even know him, and I was defending him! Almost 2 years later, when I was founding the US Hawks, I took the trouble to seek him out and invite him to this forum:

Hello Tad,

I'm writing because I'd like to invite you to join us on the new US Hawks forum ( ushawks.org ). I started that forum because I'd seen far too many examples of people being silenced on the other national hang gliding forums.

But more than being just a forum, I'd like to build the US Hawks into a national hang gliding organization so we can offer free market alternatives to all pilots.

I hope you'll join us, and please call or write back any time.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
858-204-7499

My point here is that I really believe in building an organization where we work together with ALL of our members to come up with policies and procedures. I'd like to see us ALL participate in making decisions to some degree or another. I'd surely like Tad to be a participant in that process or I wouldn't have invited him. At the same time, I'd like Tad to understand that not every decision will go his way. If we're really going to build a new national hang gliding organization, it will require each of us to compromise a little bit. It will also require us to be civil to one another. How many times has Tad suggested that it would be good for someone or another to be killed in a hang gliding accident? Even once is one too many.

Mostly, I stand by what I said in my 2009 letter above:

"Mr. Eareckson is obviously intelligent and passionate, and we can certainly use those qualities if we can harness them in a positive direction."

It's very unfortunate that Tad has been banned from so many forums (even more than I have!!) because he has so much useful information to convey. I think we (you and I) could help him reach more people by helping him with the way he presents himself. The foul language isn't helpful. The snarky remarks aren't helpful. The wishing people were dead isn't helpful. The dissecting of every single sentence isn't helpful. The expanding of one person's 10 sentence post into a 50 sentence post isn't helpful (or sustainable). I like Tad, and I want to see him be more effective at attracting people to his ideas rather than driving them away. I hope you'll help him in that direction.

Finally, this site is intended to be more than just a forum. It's intended to eventually become what the HGAA should have been - an alternate national association dedicated to the sport of hang gliding. This site was created for people who want to work toward that goal. It was not created for people who oppose that goal. Now there may be different approaches to building that national organization - and they're all welcome. But the first step is establishing that we do, in fact, want to work together on building that national association. I am growing concerned that Tad isn't really interested in that goal, but instead wants to use the forum just to throw stones at people. At some point, that will drive away the very people we need to build that national organization. Now I can already imagine Tad's reply. Let me take a stab at it:

"We don't need anyone who doesn't agree with doing it Tad's way ... because they're all f****ing idiots for disagreeing".

That's where he's wrong. Just as USHPA needs people like Tad, the US Hawks will need people like Jim Rooney and James Gaar and lots of other people who happen to be at the top of "Tad's most hated" list. Until Tad can prove that he's infallible, we're going to need all those people who agree with him and all those people who don't agree with him. We need them all because that's what provides the checks and balances that catch human mistakes ... and Tad is human.

So I think this is coming down to a question of whether or not Tad is willing to work WITH the US Hawks as one member of a team trying to build a better national association. Tad is right that the term "better" is in the eye of the beholder. For me, the term "better" means better processes. It means more open discussions. It means more participation by the members. It means more willingness to challenge accepted practices. It means open voting by our Board. It means fair treatment of our members. It even means some degree of civility toward those with whom we disagree.

If Tad wants to be part of that, then I really really welcome him. That's why I took the trouble to invite him in the first place. I want Tad's participation on this forum to be one of the great things about the US Hawks. I want him to shine here and get the recognition that his efforts deserve. I want people to post here expecting to get a civil and informative response from Tad ... without being cut to shreds.

Well, that's what I'm trying to do here. If any of you can help, that would be great.

Thanks, and sorry for the long post myself.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Rob McKenzie... No freakin' way.

Rob McKenzie - 2009/08/26

I hesitate to even post. I have no intention to sway anyone to do what I do but will post only under the premise of FWIW.

I believe that if I fly long enough, numbers lead to an eventual failure to hook in. I'm human.

I do a hang check before nearly every flight. I do it without needing a nose or keel assist as I balance my weight over the basetube. I'm more likely to do a hang check if I don't need to trouble others for help. I probably miss the hang check about 1 in 1000 flights. I feel leg loops and look for height above basetube and twisting in lines during the hang check.

I have twice in the last 10,000 or so flights actually laid on the ground unhooked while doing my self hang check. So numbers indicate about 1 in 5000 chance of forgetting to hook in.

Multiply rate of failure to hook in by failure to hang check and I have perhaps a 1 in 5 million chance of launching unhooked. With 500 flights a year I have therefore about 1 failed hook-in launch every 50,000 years. But it could be my next launch attempt.

I like variety. Sometimes AUSSIE and sometimes not. It helps to bring the thought process alive. Routine leads to boredom which leads to reactive thinking which IMO is a poor facsimile of true thinking.

1. USHGA's got regulations for ratings and flying.

2. Some of USHGA's rules and regulations are logically, obviously, verifiably, statistically stupid and dangerous. I have no problem ignoring them and breaking them - especially since there is no effective means of changing them.

3. This regulation:

With each flight, demonstrates method of establishing that pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

is rock solid bulletproof and in over thirty years there's never once been a ghost of a sane argument for violating it. Yet Rob chooses to do pretty much the precise opposite. He flunks. Shouldn't be signing off ratings and oughta have his own suspended.

I'm sorry Tad, but Rob McKenzie is one of the top instructors that I've met. He's been my hang gliding instructor and paragliding instructor (signing off my P3 rating). Rob is pointing out an important aspect of the problem when he mentions that routine leads to boredom. That's part of the human element that you want to ignore by reasserting the regulation. If the regulation were so bulletproof, then why doesn't it work 100% of the time? The answer is the human element.

But my main point here is that Rob McKenzie is one of the best instructors in the country. We need more instructors like Rob McKenzie. If he flunks in your world, then that shows a big problem with your world.

[DarthVader]

Somebody gets his helmeted head rearranged badly

Cracked like an egg shell

1. Why not? Has he got something to hide?


Instructors don't like their names printered in public when they give out a ratings H 3 or 4 to student hang glider pilot's that their flying demeanor has not changed and that are still flying a H 1 level, The problem comes here, they get a H 3 or 4, and of course the student feels Invincible and can fly in all types of conditons, bosting the brains method, I can Jump from the moon, and land back on Earth with no problem... If I was and instructor and giving out H2 & H3's to students, they better show me that they can Fly through a Tornado, and land safely in a Rotor to get a hang 2 or 3 from me. I would not want to put my name on a card and have someone die cause I signed him off, when I know in my mind that the student was not ready.
The way I see it a student should preform more that just the skills that are on the Dennis Pagen and Peter Cheney hang gliding books...

A good H-1 should have these Skills

1. Should know what he is getting into and know the instructor credibility and ablility
2. How a wing flies and why it needs love like everything does
3. Assemble & Re-assemble of a Glider (taking it apart) & knowing all the parts of what you will fly & diffrent size gliders
4. Set up a glider, on flat ground & up-right as well, & knowing which way to aim a glider during set up
5. How to preflight a glider the right way
6. Weather and Forcast
7. How to put on a harness, the right way, and hook in yourself
8. How to hold a glider the right way into the wind
9. How to turn a glider, Pitch & Roll on a simulator
10. How to Throw your parachute while being spinned around
11. How to hang check
12. Ground handle a glider in the wind not over 12 mph know AOA, walk Jog Run, Or Run
14. Deminstrate Moon Walks
15. How to tie a weaklink, and sizes how to hook yourself in and escape from hang straps
16. How towing systems work
17. The danger of towing and what can go wrong with these systems and know what to do
18. have at least 30 scooter tows being able to go 25% to the right and to the left and landing
19. have at least 100 launches from a small trainning hill wheel or feet landings
20 . knowing bar posstions
21. having at least 20 surface launches for a payout whinch straight flights and landings with flight under 200 ft


These should be the skills of a good H 1 rating

[DarthVader]

By the way Tad here is boy Ryan


http://vimeo.com/26210217

[TadEareckson]

Oops. Something really weird went on when I tried to post and believed I had done so successfully earlier today. The following was intended to fit in immediately after Bob's:

2011/07/10 03:19:33 UTC

(and before his:

2011/07/10 17:17:55 UTC)

Please read it in that context and I'll get caught up on the subsequent issues as soon as I can.

---

Actually, I think I had wandered pretty far from "Nate's minor accident at PackSaddle" before you did.

That's OK. The title of the thread is misleading. What Nate had at Packsaddle wasn't an accident. So that gives people a little latitude about what fits.

We can't force Tad to work within the USHPA framework but we can make it unpleasant and expensive for him if he chooses to makes derogatory and false statements about USHPA to the FAA he can't back up.

I would never DREAM of doing anything that despicable - and unnecessary. You could spend a couple of lifetimes making derogatory and true statements about USHPA to the FAA you can back up. All you gotta do is cut and paste from the magazine.

I don't think trying to silence him with an injunction is a good start.

Sorry, although I would've agreed with you at the time I didn't realize the depths of depravity of this organization. In retrospect them trying to get an injunction to silence me would've been a GREAT start.

I cast my vote for having Dennis write a letter to Mr. Eareckson as he suggested.

Could you drop Dennis a note and ask him how he's coming on that letter? This was the last I ever heard from him:

pagenbks@lazerlink.com
2006/08/18

T,
I am in Switzerland for the World aero meet. Will be back on the 29th. I wont stiff you on the money. I just want to talk about some things. No wildlife here except swans...
Dennis

Dennis has never done a single goddam thing to make towing safer and better - and a helluva lot to do the precise opposite.

Here's all I ever got from USHGA:

Subj: Re: [Tow] AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Date: 2009 May 09 22:10:38
From: cloud9sa@aol.com
To: skysailingtowing@yahoogroups.com
cc: GreggLudwig@aol.com, lisa@lisatateglass.com


Hi Tad.

I'm Tracy Tillman, on the USHPA BOD, on the Tow Committe, and I am an Aviation Safety Counselor on the FAA Safety Team (FAAST) for the Detroit FSDO area. As a rep of both the USHPA and FAA, I would like to help you, USHPA, and the FAA improve safety in flying, towing, and hang gliding.

The FAA gets a lot of letters of complaint from a lot of yahoos. For best effect, I suggest that you describe in your letter (and also post to the skysailingtowing group and share with the USHPA Tow Committee) your areas of expertise (if any) related to this issue, and list your qualifiications, logged hours, and currency in certain categories, such as:

1. hang glider pilot rating and logged hours
2. hang glider aerotow rating, logged hours, and logged number of tows
3. hang glider tug pilot rating, logged hours towing, and logged number of tows
4. hang glider aerotow administrator appointment date
5. hang glider aerotow supervisor appointment date
6. hang glider tanderm instructor rating, logged hours of aerotow tandem instruction, and logged number of instructional flights
7. airplane pilot license ratings and logged number of hours
8. airplane tow pilot endorsement date, logged number of hours towing with airplane, logged number of tows
9. sailplane tow pilot license ratings, logged number of hours, logged number of tows.
10. sailplane instructor license date, logged number of hours of instruction, logged number of instructional tows
11. any other flying or engineering-related credentials that you may have as evidence of your competence to make these claims.

(BTW, if you have an AT hang glider rating or above the you would/should have received the USHPA Aerotow Guidelines as part of your instruction from the person who taught you to aerotow and/or gave you your AT rating, and you should currently have access to them via the packet that is accessible to you on the USHPA web site, if your AT or higher AT-related ratings and appointments are current.)

It would also be good for the FAA and USHPA to know what kind of ultalight or sport plane tug and airplane you use for towing hang gliders and sailplanes with at your operation (if any), along with a general description of your towing operation or who you provide towing and instructional services for (if any).

Additionally, if you want to really present a convincing argument, you should also: (a) get other experts to co-sign your letter, such as those who have some or most of the aerotowing-related credentials listed above, who have been doing this for many years with many students, and who support your argument; and (b) present reliable data based on valid research showing that there is a significant difference in safety with the changes that you recommend. Supportive comments from aerotow experts along with convincing data can make a difference. Otherwise, it may seem as if your perception of "the sky is falling" may not be shared by most others who have a wealth of experience and who are deeply involved in aerotowing in the US.

This information would also be very helpful in convicing the USHPA and others to take your complaint seriously. Most of the individuals who serve on the USHPA Towing Committe have most of the credentials listed above, so it will be great for you to let them know about your similar credentials and depth of experience, too. If you do not have those credentials, it will be a simple matter for the USHPA Tow Committee to respond to the FAA to discount your complaint, so it will be very important for you to present this information in your letter to the FAA and to others now.

The best way to make change is to get involved, and join the Tow Committee at its meetings. That's what people who really care do to make change. Such is the nature of the great opportunities we have to make a difference in the US (although it means having to spend time, money, and effort, compared to the ease of just sitting in front of a computer.)

Good luck with your endeavor, and regards,

Dr. Tracy Tillman
USHPA Director, Region 7
FAA Detroit FSDO FAAST Aviation Safety Counselor

Subj: Aerotowing Concerns
Date: 2009 May 14 15:08:00
From: lisa@lisatateglass.com
To: TadErcksn@...

Dear Mr. Eareckson,

I am in receipt of your draft letter dated 09.May.2009 in which you relay concerns about USHPA's aerotowing SOP's.

As you may know, USHPA is a volunteer driven organization. Our Board of Directors and our committees are comprised entirely of volunteers who are willing to get involved and donate their time and expertise, to improve our organization and sports.

In order for the USHPA to consider implementing any of your suggestions, we will need your active participation on the Towing Committee. I encourage you to contact Gregg Ludwig, USHPA's Towing Committee chair for a seat on that committee. Greggs email is: GreggLudwig@aol.com

If you are interested and willing to participate on USHPA's Towing Committee, please contact Gregg by 01.June.2009 so that he may include you in that committee's correspondence. If you contact Gregg, please also cc: me so that I may include you when mailing information regarding Board of Director meetings. If we do not hear from you by that date, we will assume that you are not interested in participating, presenting, and explaining your suggestions to the towing committee. If you do plan to participate, let us know by 01.June, so we can arrange for an appropriate venue for discussion of your suggestions at our upcoming BOD meeting in Texas.

Signed,

Lisa Tate
President, USHPA
lisa.tate@ushpa.aero
208-376-7914

And here's what I wrote to Tracy:

2009/05/10

Tracy,

For the purposes of questions One through Eleven... I got nuthin'. I've never been anywhere near a hang glider, sailplane, or Cessna and I never got past kindergarten in my public school education 'cause they threw me out for refusing to recite the Lord's Prayer. I'm just a concerned citizen reading the web and watching USHPA rated AT participants doing the same stupid and dangerous things over and over and over.

For the purposes of the accessibility of the AT Guidelines... When I got my AT Special Skill ticket - 1987/08/01 - there were no AT Guidelines, packets, or instructors so we had to teach ourselves. But I'd be thrilled to get a link from which I can access the Guidelines 'cause my ticket is current and I've crawled all over the USHPA website and I've never even gotten close. And why should one need a current ticket to access these carefully guarded secrets? What is it we're trying to conceal from the public?

>
This information would also be very helpful in convicing the USHPA and others to take your complaint seriously.
<

I have absolutely no interest in or respect for people who express interest in my "credentials". If they know what they're talking about they respond to the validity or lack thereof of my statements and have absolutely no interest in my experience or total lack thereof driving stuff.

So you wanna address the validity or lack thereof of ANY of my statements in the proposed letter or am I gonna hafta get Gregg to do that?

>
This information would also be very helpful in convicing the USHPA and others to take your complaint seriously.
<

One of my main complaints is that there is absolutely no compliance with or enforcement of many of USHPA's own clearly stated rules. You wanna cosign that one for me?

>
The best way to make change is to get involved, and join the Tow Committee at its meetings. That's what people who really care do to make change.
<

In the twenty-five year history of USHGA supervised aerotowing I can't recall much of anything of much significance or effectiveness to come out of it.

>
(although it means having to spend time, money, and effort, compared to the ease of just sitting in front of a computer.)
<

I don't know what planet you just beamed over from but I haven't just been sitting in front of a computer.

>
I'm Tracy Tillman, on the USHPA BOD, on the Tow Committe...
<

So did you even bother GLANCING at the SOPs and Guidelines I spent a month and a half revising prior to and in preparation for the 2009/03/27-28 Tow Committee meeting in Colorado Springs?

And to Lisa:

2009/05/15

re: AT concerns

Hi Lisa,

1. I found Tracy's post to be one of the most offensive I've had directed to me in a long time.

2. Even now there has been virtually no discussion on the substance of anything in the proposed revisions by Tow Committee members.

3. If the Tow Committee understood anything about aerotowing it would have rewritten the documents to read very much like what I have proposed twenty years ago.

4. I'm guessing that there's nothing in the bylaws that precludes the Tow Committee from implementing a proposal from someone not on the Tow Committee.

5. I was led to believe that there would be a venue for discussion of my suggestions at your last BOD meeting.

6. In the over twenty years since I've had my AT ticket I've never once seen an official copy of the USHGA AT Guidelines referenced in the SOPs and I'd really like to know how I can access one so I can see if it contains as much deadly misinformation and inconsistencies with the SOPs as some of the previous unofficial versions I've been able to collect do.

7. If the literacy and competency levels on the Tow Committee aren't high enough to reach some sort of consensus on this material in on line discussions I'm probably not going to be able to get through to anyone by standing up in front of a room in Texas either but I'll see how things go over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks much for your letter,
Tad

I heard nothing back from either one.

And here's the end of my last little note to Tracy:

2011/02/12

>
Good equipment is important, the best equipment is a well-trained brain.
<

Yeah Tracy, don't worry about having sane standards for the equipment to do these jobs 'cause nobody with a well-trained brain is ever gonna be in a situation like that below five hundred feet. fu**ing moron.

And you teach engineering? Un freaking believable.

Sorry, but I think that's the better approach with stupid scum like that.

Another invitation to attend (or even present) at the next Towing Committee meeting might also be a good idea.

Then I drove down to Lookout on Matt's invitation after he conned me into believing he wanted to discuss the issues and make changes for the better.

He's also on the Towing Committee. I'm a whole lot better at identifying scum from remote locations now. I don't waste time talking to them anymore.

I'd like to see us ALL participate in making decisions to some degree or another.

Regardless of race, creed, IQ, or competence. The important thing is that everybody FEELS good about everything.

Did the HGMA form and set certification standards by soliciting as much participation from hang glider pilots as possible and giving fair and equal weight to all their opinions? Do we have scuba tanks that don't blow dive boats to splinters on the way out because we got input on their standards from Michael Phelps and his relay team? Did we consult people who've cracked a thousand hours soaking in Jacuzzis?

I'd surely like Tad to be a participant in that process or I wouldn't have invited him.

GREAT!!! After over thirty years of getting qualified, certified, teaching, researching, and developing the best stuff in its category that's ever been put into the air I get to be a PARTICIPANT! Just like Tina who took a tandem hop with Rooney last weekend and thinks he and hang gliding are really cool!

At the same time, I'd like Tad to understand that not every decision will go his way.

Yeah. It's not like my vote - or grade school arithmetic's - should count any more than Tina's. Welcome to two plus two equals the average of what whoever clicks into the poll says it does.

If we're really going to build a new national hang gliding organization, it will require each of us to compromise a little bit.

Mark G. Forbes - 2009/06/13
Corvallis, Oregon

I just read the proposed changes that Tad posted. First I've heard of them. I know he was threatening to send a letter to the FAA, and I heard about *that*, but before that time I'd heard nothing. I wasn't in the aerotow committee meeting at the last BOD, because I was busy doing another committee at that time.

I have an assortment of concerns, starting with the use of the word "infallible" and continuing on from there.

Yeah, let's give Mark a vote. We should continue to use crap that locks up every five on ten tows so Davis and the flight parks don't hafta retool.

It will also require us to be civil to one another.

Yeah, let's treat serial killers like Davis and Bo Hagewood with all the civility to which they are entitled.

I am growing concerned that Tad isn't really interested in that goal, but instead wants to use the forum just to throw stones at people.

Tad WANTS to help people learn to do things right - on this forum and Strings. Tad IS doing that with people who wanna engage him - like Zack, Larry West, Chad May, Antoine, Darth, Bob, and a few others from time to time.

Unfortunately, stones need to be thrown quite a bit in the process. Kinda like at Cape Canaveral. They don't let just anybody into the decision making processes and use chainlink, barbed wire, and assault rifles to keep people like Davis, Rooney, and Gaar safely away from areas where they can participate in making decisions to some degree or another.

At some point, that will drive away the very people we need to build that national organization.

If we want a rotten foundation we should be extremely welcoming.

How 'bout instead we drive the dregs away until the foundation is in place, then hold our noses and open the doors but tell them to leave their bent pin releases in the recycling bin just outside and save their opinions for American Idol?

...it will require each of us to compromise a little bit.

ALWAYS a great idea in aviation.

How many times has Tad suggested that it would be good for someone or another to be killed in a hang gliding accident?

Although it would be valuable in proving the point, it's not absolutely necessary that he be killed in a hang gliding "accident". Getting run over by a truck would be better than nothing.

Even once is one too many.

...it will require each of us to compromise a little bit.

So how come it's *NOT* OK for ME to just to hope for a deserving person to buy the farm as a consequence of one of the bent pin releases he sells locking up on him but it *IS* OK for YOU to compromise so that that person can sell one of his bent pin releases to my nephew and kill him?

I got news for ya... You're gonna get a lot more - and better - people killed than I am.

"We don't need anyone who doesn't agree with doing it Tad's way ... because they're all f****ing idiots for disagreeing".

Close.

"We don't need anyone who doesn't agree with two plus two equals four ... because they're all f***ing idiots for disagreeing".

(And - while we're on the subject - note that you had too many asterisks.)

"Mr. Eareckson is obviously intelligent and passionate..."

You left out "competent". For the purposes of this discussion that's more important than the other two.

It's very unfortunate that Tad has been banned from so many forums (even more than I have!!) because he has so much useful information to convey.

Which is precisely WHY we've been banned.

I think we (you and I) could help him reach more people by helping him with the way he presents himself.

Or better yet... Check my math and - if it's right - present it yourselves until you also go stark raving mad with frustration.

The foul language isn't helpful. The snarky remarks aren't helpful.

So what HAS proven most helpful in the past twenty years in getting bent pin releases grounded? USHGA/FAA regulations? Grade school science? Bench test data? Incident reports? Appeals to reason? What have YOU had the most success with?

The wishing people were dead isn't helpful.

Gotta agree with that one. But making it happen is illegal in some states.

The dissecting of every single sentence isn't helpful. The expanding of one person's 10 sentence post into a 50 sentence post isn't helpful (or sustainable).

It is a mistake however, to describe the rest of the Constitution as a "conglomerate of compromises," because extreme patience was used to bring the minds of the delegates into agreement rather than simply force the issue to finality with a compromise. This is demonstrated in the fact that over 60 ballots were taken before they resolved the issue of how to elect the President.

1. You don't think THOSE folk were busy dissecting ever single punctuation mark and expanding ten sentence posts into hundred sentence posts?

2. Check out the recent activity at HGAA. How helpful and sustainable is that?

3. I spent part of a summer partially crippled because of a wrong one word answer to a question I asked an idiot instructor.

I like Tad, and I want to see him be more effective at attracting people to his ideas...

MY ideas?

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

This release shall be operational with zero tow line force up to twice the rated breaking strength of the weak link.

Are those MY ideas?

...rather than driving them away.

If ya can't stand the heat...

...the US Hawks will need people like Jim Rooney and James Garr...

Yeah. Just like biology textbook editors need a few Jehovah's Witnesses to bring balance to some of the more controversial issues - like reality.

You're welcome to invite them over here. But until you ban me I'm gonna do everything I can to make their lives living hells for as long as they're here - and beyond.

Until Tad can prove that he's infallible...

1. Tad's EXTREMELY fallible. That's how come he always complies with USHGA's launch procedure regulations.

2. Newtonian physics - until you get down to the quantum level stuff anyway - are infallible.

3. Tad has made a couple of small goofs interpreting and applying Newtonian physics, but careful readers and thinkers like Zack can find them easily enough and then they get fixed.

4. Tad's pretty confident that all of the holes have been patched at this point.

5. Tad's one hundred percent certain that - in any case - he's got a model a zillion times better than the crap upon which the public at large has been operating the past thirty years.

6. Can you punch any holes in Tad's math? Let's make it interesting - twenty bucks a challenge.

...we're going to need all those people who agree with him and all those people who don't agree with him.

1. "WE" who?

2. How many pin benders should we make space for?

Zack C - 2011/07/10

So I took a trip to Lookout last weekend and my release gave me trouble (must be something in the air over there...). I took two tows on two different days and on both I had to pull the actuator loop three times before it released (password = 'red'):
http://vimeo.com/26212486

And here's the previous edition of the Matt's Lockout Release:

http://www.vimeo.com/17472603
(Same password.)

That's the one that Roy Messing died on a couple of years ago.

Matt wasn't the least bit interested in my stuff though because it was "complicated". And in hang gliding the only release criteria that matter are that they're "simple" and marketed by flight parks.

Should we invite Matt into the discussion?

Tracy Tillman - 2001/05/24

We normally use 130 lb., but we now also have 150 lb. on hand for heavier pilots in draggier gliders. I use 150 lb. for pro-towing, but Lisa still uses 130 lb. for pro-towing. I use 130 lb when using my regular towing bridle.

How 'bout Tracy?

We need them all because that's what provides the checks and balances that catch human mistakes ... and Tad is human.

Jim Rooney - 2005/08/31

As with many changes in avaition, change is approached with a bit of skepticism. Rightfully so. There's something to be said for "tried and true" methods... by strapping on somehting new, you become a test pilot. The unknown and unforseen become your greatest risk factors. It's up to each of us to individually asses the risks/rewards for ourselves.

Yeah, let's get someone who couldn't have made it through my third grade English class with a gun to his head to act as a check on me and catch my human mistakes. And let's bring a few garden slugs in to check my load calculations.

It means more open discussions. It means more participation by the members.

In some circles you can have open discussions and participation until hell freezes over. And the Earth is still gonna be six thousand years old. And hang gliding is to aviation what Kansas is to geology.

There are plenty of issues in aviation in which VERY FEW people have any business whatsoever participating. And in all legitimate branches they aren't allowed to.

It means fair treatment of our members.

THAT I can DEFINITELY get behind. When was the last time you heard about a rating or appointment suspension or revocation?

It means more willingness to challenge accepted practices.

What are "accepted practices" and who is it that gets to accept them? Are "accepted practices" the standards and procedures in our regulations or whatever anyone feels like doing?

It even means some degree of civility toward those with whom we disagree.

If you're telling people that two plus two equals six, putting them in the air on that basis, killing them, and refusing to check and/or correct the math you deserve no civility - you deserve prison and ostracism.

I want people to post here expecting to get a civil and informative response from Tad ... without being cut to shreds.

That's what YOU want. I also would prefer that - if/when it works and we're converging on two plus two equals four. If that doesn't happen and someone is endangering others and/or the sport, I want him cut to shreds. And, speaking for myself, I'm happy to be cut to shreds if I'm wrong - could save me from breaking a foot again.

Well, that's what I'm trying to do here. If any of you can help, that would be great.

The more people who go to the bother of educating themselves the less of a horror show democracy is. If anyone really wants to help he should make sure that he knows what he's talking about before he opens his mouth.

Jim Gaar - 2009/09/18

I'm a Rooney follower.

And being a Rooney and/or mindless zombie is never gonna cut it.