[Bob Kuczewski]

On the grand side, the US Hawks could be a new national hang gliding organization offering pilot insurance, site insurance, rating programs, and all the benefits of the "other" national organization(s).

On the smaller scale, the US Hawks might just be a means of networking hang gliding pilots for their mutual benefit.

Right now, I think we should focus on the smaller end of that scale. I'd like to see us reaching out to the grass roots pilots and clubs to build a "bottom up" consensus rather than trying to force one from the top down. I think that's more in keeping with the original spirit of hang gliding, and I hope the US Hawks will embrace that perspective.

So let's just build up our membership and try to be helpful to each other.

[Bob Kuczewski]

As I've been building the US Hawks forum, I realized that one of the things that USHPA doesn't really provide is a good forum for its members ... or its chapters.

That got me to thinking that it might be convenient for US Hawks Chapters to be offered forums within the US Hawks forum. The nice thing about that is that members can quickly see what's going on nationally, locally, and at other sites of interest ... all in the same forum.

So far I've put up sites for the Torrey Hawks, Tooele Hawks, and Lakeview Hawks. Of course, US Hawks Chapters don't need to have the word "Hawks" in their names, and any existing USHPA chapters that want to be chapters of the US Hawks can use their same names.

Just to spice it up a little bit, I also picked different themes for each Chapter Forum, so you'll get a visual recognition that you've changed "turf" when you're in one of those forums. I may also assign moderator status to the officers of those forums so they can manage their own views and members.

Again, I'm interested in any feedback on these ideas. Thanks.

[SamKellner]

What can the Hawks be?

Wanted: payout winch, ATOL or similar in good working shape.

No towline needed. We have 3000' of spectra.

This winch, when assembled, will be available to HG pilots who wish to fly in the SW Tx. corridor between Zapata and BigSpring.

Hawks in SW Tx

[Bob Kuczewski]

This winch, when assembled, will be available to HG pilots who wish to fly in the SW Tx. corridor between Zapata and BigSpring.

Hawks in SW Tx

Start a local Chapter!!!!

You can use any name (it doesn't have to include the word "Hawks"). Then you can be a US Hawks Chapter and you'll get your own sub-forum. You could even become a USHPA chapter with 5 members. You can count me in if you like!! I'm sure we could drum up a few others as well.

Really, I think the idea of grass-roots local organizations could be the revival of hang gliding. That's what I had in mind for the HGAA ... until it lost its collective mind.

[SamKellner]

Bob,

I have the paperwork for stating a UShPA chapter. It's been in the file cabinet for years I am not the paperwork type of guy. It seemed real complicated and even a new chapter here would not change the minds of the Tx pilots.

IMO "growing up" at Torrey gives me a very different perspective from the Reg11 pilots. I want to build a flying site/area for pilots world wide, since so many of the world records are here. Not just one or two events per year.

The Tx/AFFA pilots pay $8,000.00 for a 9mo lease for 450ft Packsaddle launch, only one in Tx. now. It is near the pilot population, Austin. They struggle every year to get enough members to pay the lease. This year a membership cost $250! Every member they loose to another less expensive site just makes their membership fee go up for the remainder. IMO this AFFA site/chapter has been detrimental to the sport, big time, especially in Tx., but really global.

And again, IMO, Austin pilot Riss Estes is so aligned with Lisa Tate, who obviously pushes her site KingMt, that he is content with going to the 450ft hill rather than support another Reg11 site, regardless of the HG/PG world records.

Yes, starting a Hawks chapter here, 4hr from Austin, sounds like a good idea. I am looking for support. There's only one other HG pilot here in Leakey. A Hawks chapter in this stratigic area would do a lot to the UShPA monopoly you mentioned.

I understand that building a flying site/area is a local thing but with so many records having gone overhead, how can it be seperated from the 'Strategic Plan". IMO, because Lisa is more interested in economically promoting her area/site, and her profession.

The economy is really not helping, but this HG situation was here before the econodive.

Thank You for all your efforts too.

Best Regards,
Sam
SW Texas Hang Gliders
Hawks in SW Tx.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Yes, starting a Hawks chapter here, 4hr from Austin, sounds like a good idea. I am looking for support. There's only one other HG pilot here in Leakey.

Just pick a name that you like and I'll set you up a forum under the US Hawks Chapter section.

Starting the Torrey Hawks was the best thing I did in 4 years of working on our local problems. It gave us an identity and allowed us to market hang gliding through various venues (Kick Gas Festival, Powerlink Fund Raiser, and at Torrey itself). It allowed us to begin holding regular gatherings (Second Sundays at Torrey), and it allowed us to be recognized by local governments (we got a seat on the Torrey Pines City Park Advisory Board). In fact, I don't think I would have been elected as Regional Director without the support of the Hawks.

So there are lots and lots of good reasons to start a local club ... and they go way beyond supporting a local flying site. In fact, there's no need to even have a flying site attached to a club. A club is about the people ... not the hill.

So please let me know if you'd like to start a Chapter and let's just do it. : )

Bob K.

[SamKellner]

OK Bob,

....SW Texas Hang Gliders........ I hope that will work. I am very honored to be considered for US Hawks Chapter #4.

Yes, thanks for reminding everyone of the positive accomplishments. Your efforts amaze me. If You had been elected instead of LT, we would have a better UShPA today, some real direction and headway toward the goal of the "Stragic Plan", to gain/retain HG membership. IMO, You are way ahead of the curve compaired to most others who made up the transition team. GREAT JOB

Best Regards,
Sam
hwy83@ Leakey
Torrey Hawks
SW Texas Hang Gliders

[Bob Kuczewski]

OK Bob,

....SW Texas Hang Gliders........ I hope that will work. I am very honored to be considered for US Hawks Chapter #4.

Yes, thanks for reminding everyone of the positive accomplishments. Your efforts amaze me. If You had been elected instead of LT, we would have a better UShPA today, some real direction and headway toward the goal of the "Stragic Plan", to gain/retain HG membership. IMO, You are way ahead of the curve compaired to most others who made up the transition team. GREAT JOB

Best Regards,
Sam
hwy83@ Leakey
Torrey Hawks
SW Texas Hang Gliders

Done!!

Because the club forums are different from the national forum, I'm giving them different "styles" than the national forum. Right now I'm using the default style of "prosilver" for the SW Texas club, but I can change that. You can go to this web site http://www.phpbb.com/styles/demo/3.0/ to see different styles (please post or send a PM if you need help). It may take me a day or so to get your choice installed, and I've had trouble with some styles, but I should be able to get you something that you'll like for the SW Texas Hang Gliders forum.

Here are some suggested additional steps (in no particular order):

1. Decide on your club's structure ... who's the president? I'd suggest yourself of course, but it's good to make it formal.
2. Come up with a simple mission statement and bylaws. You can use the Torrey Hawks bylaws as a simple starting point if you like. USHPA also has some suggested bylaws that they've published, and I think they're on their web site.
3. Choose a forum style (mentioned above) and come up with a club logo. A variation of your avatar might be great since it shows Texas and it shows a hang glider!! I can help you modify it if you like. Just let me know. I can then put your club logo together with your chosen forum style to give it your own custom flavor.
4. Begin listing members. I think you can safely start with yourself and then ask any other long time local hang glider pilots or supporters in your area to join. I'd be happy to be a member as well, but it's better to start the list with as many locals as you can find to honor them with low member numbers (2, 3, 4, ...).
5. Consider getting your own URL. I can host a few basic pages for you if you like, but you should have and own your own club's URL so that you control it.

Most of all, I think you should start the first topic in the new SW Texas Hang Glider's forum. Maybe open up a welcome topic of some sort to get bootstrapped. Then we can continue this conversation over there ... in your own forum!! : )

[Bob Kuczewski]

OK, well it looks like this topic has spawned a new US Hawks Chapter, and that's a good start!!

What else can we do and what else can we be?

One of the things that came up in another topic was the notion of healing disputes within the hang gliding community. I think that would be a huge service that we could provide, but it could also be a huge quagmire as well. I personally think it would be worth the effort. Here are several examples where such a service could have been helpful to everyone:

1. The banning of David Beardslee from Torrey Pines in 2007. This is what got me started on my 3+ year journey, and I think a lot of that turmoil could have been avoided if USHPA (or one of their Directors) had been willing to try to fix that. For those who don't know, David Jebb banned David Beardslee for life and wouldn't even give him a reason. I didn't even know David Beardslee at the time, but a mutual friend introduced us and that got me started on what eventually became the Soaring Council, the Torrey Hawks, my own USHPA Directorship, the Accountability Amendment, the HGAA, and now the US Hawks. Wouldn't it have been much easier for USHPA to just try to get some fairness for David Beardslee in the first place? Maybe that's a service that the US Hawks could provide for our members in the future.
    
2. Bannings from hanggliding.org and the Oz Report. I think that both Jack and Davis have done themselves disservices by their hot-tempered banning of pilots who in most cases just disagreed with them. They are both great web sites, and it's a shame when the moderator's personality detracts from the sense of community that's there. I think a stronger sense of community outside of those forums (maybe through the US Hawks) could help rally support to ensure that pilots are treated more fairly on those forums. The US Hawks certainly can't tell any forum operator what to do, but we could provide enough clout so that they wouldn't be so cavalier in their banning of whoever they don't like. If nothing else, we can provide a forum where "the other side" of the story can at least be told. This alone may add another few seconds of hesitation as the mouse finger hovers over the ban button.
    
3. The rift between Warren and Jim. This appears to be a long standing feud, and I don't know enough history to make much of a comment. But I can say that it's often helpful to have impartial people willing to look at a conflict and try to work with both sides toward a resolution. This may be impossible, but I think it's worth at least some level of effort.

What do you all think of that role for the US Hawks?

[Free]

One of the things that came up in another topic was the notion of healing disputes within the hang gliding community.

I believe an idea like this was part of the USHPA Strategic Plan of a few years ago.. the same Strategic Plan that called for a doubling of the membership..

Both seemed to get the same results.

[*] Bannings from hanggliding.org and the Oz Report. I think that both Jack and Davis have done themselves disservices by their hot-tempered banning of pilots who in most cases just disagreed with them. They are both great web sites, and it's a shame when the moderator's personality detracts from the sense of community that's there. I think a stronger sense of community outside of those forums (maybe through the US Hawks) could help rally support to ensure that pilots are treated more fairly on those forums. The US Hawks certainly can't tell any forum operator what to do, but we could provide enough clout so that they wouldn't be so cavalier in their banning of whoever they don't like. If nothing else, we can provide a forum where "the other side" of the story can at least be told. This alone may add another few seconds of hesitation as the mouse finger hovers over the ban button.

A place to counter the banner's 'official story' would be a good service to those that get kicked to the curb.
Keeping the gatekeepers honest is an honest goal.

[*] The rift between Warren and Jim. This appears to be a long standing feud, and I don't know enough history to make much of a comment. But I can say that it's often helpful to have impartial people willing to look at a conflict and try to work with both sides toward a resolution. This may be impossible, but I think it's worth at least some level of effort.[/list]
What do you all think of that role for the US Hawks?

Hey, I really like it though it is doubtful that Jim Gaar will join in. It's been tried before.
I've given him opportunities to clear his conscience but he just won't come clean.

Gaar has a good story that he has been telling behind the scenes for years to justify his David Jebb actions.
Like David Beardsley, I would like to hear the justification.

A Court of Public Opinion sounds like a good way to sort this out, remedy the problem and maybe get a 'brother' back in the air. Gaar doesn't even want me to know where there might be a new training hill in the area to safely ease back into the sport.

I'm a little tired of Jim Gaar constantly 'poisoning the well' when it comes to flying in Region 6.
If it's good enough to say behind my back it ought to be good enough to say it to my face.
Jim Gaar won't do that. He really wants me to leave the sport.

Why is that, Jim Gaar?

You have the floor. Don't be shy my old friend.
Just say what you have been saying all along.
Warren