[Bob Kuczewski]

Some members of the US Hawks have been banned from other forums. This means that people on other forums can take "pot shots" at them without fearing any actual response. So I'm creating this topic as a place for people to respond to any post on any other forum. Please quote the original post and provide a link to it as well.

This topic isn't meant to limit the starting of other topics which respond to long discussions on other forums. That's always welcome. Instead, it's meant as a convenient place to respond to one or two posts in no particular order.

I hope it helps those who've been banned.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Posted by red: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:19 am, Post subject: A petition to reinstate the account of BobK

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=19108&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=22

Dennis,

NOT ENDORSED.

No debate, just my opinion, from here on: feel free to disregard it.

I like BobK, and I see him getting some good things done. Even BobK will admit, though, sometimes he goes about it the wrong way. We all make mistakes, but when you find yourself in a deep hole, at least quit digging. Cool

I am glad to see what we have here. SG has put in more work than anybody knows, and this is his place, his home site. He has been more than generous, to more people than I would have been, at times. He has every right to draw the line at some point, and disregard those who cross it. Civility was the line. That is NOT too much to ask (IMHO), from the membership.

Anything sent to a private web site (which this is) becomes part of that site, IMHO. Nobody else has a right to ask for all of the archives of a private site, simply because they may have contributed text (freely) to any small part of it. You certainly can keep copies of what you write, and collect worthwhile posts from others; I recommend this practice. SG is not the eternal, unpaid keeper of the archives forever. Legal issues aside, he would need to be paid adequately for his services, in this eventuality. Anybody who does not think this fine endeavor could end instantly, for any number of reasons, has a poor grasp of reality. One man is doing all of this, for us. I greatly appreciate his efforts, and the serious money he has expended for our benefit, and for the benefit of our sport.

I think the list seen here is vastly understated (and under-paid):
http://www.hanggliding.org/donate.php

I think the Mission Statement and Site Rules here could not be more reasonable:
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_ ... _Statement

AND FINALLY, Laughing I do not even pretend that I get a vote on this issue.

Mr. Green

I agree with a lot of what you say Red. SG has worked hard for hanggliding.org, but I don't see where civility was crossed. Can you point it out explicitly? Thanks.

You go on to say that what's posted on a private web site belongs to that site. That's true, but the TorreyHawksForum was created and advertised to our members as our club forum. That means that the people posting there would have expected their posts to be under the control of the club. But SG has banned people from our club forum without any approval from the Board, and then he refused to give us the posts from our own members when I requested them as the club's president. That's like the IT guy in some company telling the CEO that he's not going to give him the company's own documents or backups.

As for SG dropping hanggliding.org, that's a hollow threat. John Wright implied that he feared that with the HGAA forum when he made the comment that one person was indispensible (he obviously meant SG). Take a look around the HGAA forum and then take a look around the US Hawks forum. I put the latter together in just a few days and I've never built a forum before in my life. Do you see much difference? So other than the name ("hanggliding.org") there's nothing that Jack provides on his site(s) that couldn't be replaced very quickly. Jack knows that, so don't worry about him pulling the rug out from under hanggliding.org. He knows that would drive everyone to either the Oz Report or to the US Hawks in about 5 minutes. Isn't competition wonderful?

[Bob Kuczewski]

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:18 am Post subject: Re: A petition to reinstate the account of BobK

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=19108&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=44

Bob is currently expending a LOT of energy that does not seem to be doing hang gliding any good.
I took up tennis. I am not doing hang gliding any good OR bad.
When Bob starts to help hang gliding, IN ANY WAY, I will support his reinstatement.

Hi Mark,

Here's Joe's list (from http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15):

So, let's collect his actions that support hang gliding!

I'll start here:

1. Many hang glider pilots have been getting free nutrition from BobK at Second Sundays. The meat, cheese, condiments, bread, and drinks have been purchased and presented by BobK to support the pilots as they enjoy a day of hang gliding lore and flying at Torrey Pines Gliderport. Raw costs in my estimate are about $100 raw funds a month for such nutrition. His time for shopping and presenting the food is volunteer. Consuming pilots need not be a member.

2. BobK has put in hundreds of hours supporting hang gliding in the political realms. The task cost him personal funds and time.

3. BobK founded the HGAA to support hang gliding; that new baby now has a chance to live a life nurtured by a group of active hang glider pilots.

4. BobK founded Torrey Hawks to support hang gliding at the TPG. The volunteer personal costs to do such founding now has a legacy with new following officers.

5. BobK has founded the US Hawks Hang Gliding Association to support hang gliding in the USA.

6. Investing energy, thought, and compositions to tackle challenging hang gliding questions has been a way that BobK supports hang gliding.

7. BobK has invested energy and funds to do research over hang gliding questions and challenges in an effort to improve hang gliding's presence in the USA.

8. BobK has shared his hang glider with other hang glider pilots in support of their hang gliding wishes and dreams. He does such regularly.

9. BobK has done significant editing free-of-charge for HGAusa for the niche activity page

10. BobK has formed gratuitous artwork in support of some hang glider pilots' communication needs.

11. BobK's leadership has resulted in a series of published hang glider pilots' interviews with illustrations. These have reached the hundreds of members of the Torrey Hawks.

12. BobK was supportive in his getting a lifetime ban removed for a pilot at a hang gliding site.

13. BobK has been working diligently to keep city property fairly managed for hang gliding pilots.

My guess is that others may positively find ways to express positive actions by BobK that support hang gliding.

But he posted that list back in mid-August ... before my latest project which is a new lightweight demonstration glider that you can see at:

http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83

So when can I get your support for reinstatement? Maybe you could start another topic since that last one was buried.

By the way, as a forum moderator, I've discovered that there's no required limit to actually bury a topic. The moderator can just bury it any time they like. Click away on those "bury" buttons all you want, but it's the moderator who makes the final decisions.

[Free]

Jack Axaopoulos, aka SG, aka Bunny Boy, is not being honest when he implies that he is "donating" those forums. There are financial considerations he conveniently glosses over involving data mining income as all kinds of valuable information is being sold, google stalking style.

Jack Axaopoulos 'owns' everything that is written in his 'living room' and markets the data any way he can..

That is why he and Dennis Cavagnaro had such a fit and refused to donate the ownership of "Lead Generation" to the USHPA. That was not a proprietary issue, it was a greed issue.

[Free]

Jack Axaopoulos,

Letting a guy back into the org that has an entire forum dedicated to attacking us is NOT in the cards. Not even remotely close. Who in their right mind would do that? Nobody.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.ph ... 8&start=40

[Free]

John Wright, aka knumbnuts wrote:

Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: #60
Wow, who misses this?
Seriously, who wants to let that drama back into the org or HGAA?
There are some people who simply can't be reasoned with. Bob is
one, there's a guy that used to be on the forums that is in the CSS
is another. All they do is ruin things for those around them.
Somehow, they thrive on it.
My only hope is that the new hawks forums are sufficient for
"containing" this negative energy and it doesn't spill back into
areas I inhabit. Bob, Freeshga, and wingspan are like that pink goo
that flows under NYC in ghostbusters 2. They might be positive and
can move the statue of liberty, but right now they are negative,
just feeding off each other's negativity.
I feel dirty even going to that site. Yuck. Bile. HGAA was right
dumping that overboard. We never would have survived it... hell, we
barely did.

[Bob Kuczewski]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=207009#207009

Dennis posted a comment to Jack (sg):

You, Jown Wright, Bob, are some of the people I like the most around here, but if you want to be a MEMBER, you can't walk around with the mentality "I'm a MEMBER until you piss me off, for when that happens, I'll haul out my SUPER ADMIN BUTTON OF DEATH and you'll be gone, buddy"!

Jack (sg) replied:

Sorry but thats not what happened. Bob REPEATED to break the rules warning after warning, and was banned. Now youre just being political and painting me as a guy who bans you just because I dont like you. There are plenty of people here I dont like, who STAY here because they follow the rules.

Excuse me Jack, but that's exactly what happened. Also, since you claim that I was repeatedly breaking the rules, could you please list which rules I had broken? Thanks in advance.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Jack Axaopoulos,

Letting a guy back into the org that has an entire forum dedicated to attacking us is NOT in the cards. Not even remotely close. Who in their right mind would do that? Nobody.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.ph ... 8&start=40

This "entire forum" is not "dedicated to attacking". Sorry, that's just not true. This site has many forums and subforums each with many different topics, and they're not all dedicated to attacking anyone.

[Free]

This "entire forum" is not "dedicated to attacking". Sorry, that's just not true. This site has many forums and subforums each with many different topics, and they're not all dedicated to attacking anyone.

Like my newest hero, Dennis D said, it's the pot calling the kettle black.
It really is 1984 when you read the writing of Jack Axaopoulos, (SG) and John Wright, (knumbnuts).
Jack may not know what "1984" actually is as he recently wrote "'1986" (sic) when he wrote about being 'unfairly' attacked.

John Wright seems to live vicariously through the movies and may know a screen version of "1984."
John may never make it as a screen writer but he does have a flair for painting a picture.
Unfortunately for him the script plays so dishonest that few people will buy the propaganda.
It's a good thing for John that the US taxpayers are funding his lavish life style.
He's probably never going to make it in Hollywood.

From the real world "1984":
I've mentioned this before..
"It Is Official: The US Is A Police State"
by Paul Craig Roberts
http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/201 ... ice-state/

[Free]

From John Wright to Dennis D.:

I have some advice:
- don't make trouble for yourself on his behalf
- don't think that some day you won't be on the receiving end

I read this as veiled threat doublespeak from chairman knumbnuts.

Dennis, you are doing a brave thing taking a stand against this power play.
John was telling you that you are now in the cross hairs of the gang mentality distortions that Bob and Scott and soon to be you are under. I left myself out because there is little they can say about me that hasn't already been said, lied and distorted about me... but that is another topic.
You know you are right so don't let them wear you down. You ask why others aren't standing with you.
It may be because they are afraid of being "on the recieving end."

I'm standing with you and Bob, here, because I'm already kicked out of Jack's little sandbox... um err.. I mean BUNNY BOY's SANDBOX!

Others can do the same if they are bold enough to take that stand and risk the rath of SGAA statism.
Is that little sandbox worth our own dignity and integrity?
The sandbox can be replaced easily enough. Not so much with the other..

Change only occurs when the cost of doing nothing exceeds the cost of doing something. (someone elses? quote)