[Frank Colver]

To see why I say this in the subject line please go the "hang gliding.org" topic I started about my basic trainer design.

AN EXCLUSIVE CLUB? OH MY GOD! THIS IS SICK, SICK, SICK!

Thank you blindroady for turning on the light.

Frank

[Bob Kuczewski]

Well looky there!!!      Frank mentioned "hang gliding.org" right out here in public.   

    Should I delete it?   
    Should I ban him?   
    Should I change it to "FranksABigLoser.org"?   
    Should I take a fake poll and bury it in the basement?   

I hope it's not too soon for a little good-natured ribbing Frank.  

O.K. All kidding aside, yes, hang gliding is in very serious trouble. It's a compounded problem of monopoly control, paragliding influence, and broken communication channels between pilots. The U.S. Hawks is trying to combat all of those with a hang gliding organization based on free, open, multiple-source ratings, free and uncensored communications channels, and transparent voting by our leaders...

... and some of the best Directors (and former Directors) in the sport.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hang gliding is in more trouble than I thought.

To see why I say this in the subject line please go the "hang gliding.org" topic I started about my basic trainer design.

You're right. I just went there and saw Mark Forbes kissing up to Frank's new trainer to save the day. How long do you think it will be until ... ?

[magentabluesky]

Pigs on the Wing

Pink Floyd

If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching the pigs on the wing

You know that I care what happens to you
And I know that you care for me too

So I don’t feel alone
Or the weight of the stone

Now that I’ve found somewhere safe
To bury my bones

And any fool knows a dog needs a home
A shelter from pigs on the wing

[Frank Colver]

Hey, any time Mark Forbes actually agrees with me I'm fine with it. I won't reject support, especially in the midst of the naysayers out there. He and I don't agree on USHPA issues but we do agree on the desirability of a specialty hang glider for training. Amazing how sometimes there is some common ground between those who usually don't agree.

Frank

[magentabluesky]

Frank,

I am in full support of your basic trainer ideas.

For those of us who have been flying for a long time it is hard to remember what it was like the first time. We can’t go back.

I just love the 330 Condor as a beginning glider and find it amazingly agile in the air for a big glider. Since I already know how to ground handle it is no big deal for me, but for a new pilot, I see how the 330 Condor could be ungainly.

So your goals for the basic trainer are fantastic, to have a glider that floats like 330 Condor in the air, but easy to handle on the ground.

Hopefully, the Puffin will be certified for high flights as I can see it could be a really fun glider as the 330 Condor is so much fun to fly.

When Joe let me fly the 210 Alpha (thank you Joe) I was hoping the 210 Alpha would be more like the Condor, but I think the 210 Alpha is closer to the Falcon.

So I think your design goals are right on target, Frank.

I wish you success in the Puffin Project.

[Rick Masters]

I've always wanted to fly a hang glider with a big hydrogen banana attached to the top of the keel.
Wouldn't want to turn around and see my glider flying off without me, though, like Jim Bede's inflatable helium wing.
(Why not use hydrogen? Are you smoking something?)

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hey, any time Mark Forbes actually agrees with me I'm fine with it.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know he "actually" agrees with you and isn't just lying?

Mark Forbes has twisted the truth or outright lied many times. Rick's quote of Mark Forbes about "hanging out with the cool kids" isn't even the tip of that iceberg.

You're swimming with sharks over there Frank. But don't mind me. And don't mind Scott. And pay no attention to Al. And forget about what you saw happen to Joe. And you know Bill has an ax to grind. And ... well, you get the idea. You'll find out soon enough.

[Frank Colver]

Oh come on!

Mark Forbes has nothing to do with my project. He's just one of several pilots who agreed with my premise, but you didn't like that. Well you are entitled to your opinions, please don't continue to insult me if I don't happen to agree with them. You have attacked Red in the past. Are you also not wanting him to have supplied a good name for the bird. Should I reject "Puffin"? What if Mark had suggested it?

I don't like you attempting to pick and choose who can and who cannot give verbal support to my trainer project.

Remember I had a lot of email conversations with Mark, back when I was trying to get you back into USHPA as an "insurance only" member. I also conversed with him over conditions at Cape Kiwanda, when you and i were planning to go there. Oh sorry, I haven't done anything for you LATELY.

You said I'll find out soon. Well I did find out that you will attack your friends when they don't do your bidding. I was warned about that several times over the past couple of years. I didn't take heed because I thought our friendship was beyond that sort of thing. Now I know they were all correct and a couple of them were people you know and respect. You have a reputation of attacking those friends who are advocating in your behalf, when things don't go as you think they should. I think you may have mistakenly thought that I would be a pushover for your personal agendas. In this latest case your agenda was to get as many people banned from HG.org as you could. It was not about actually getting Joe back in. You actually admitted that, when you said that you knew from the beginning that it was futile to try and change Jack's mind and get a reversal. You just wanted me to keep posting posts in Joe's behalf (that no one would see because Jack takes them down instantly) until I would be added to your "banned brothers" list. Gee, I screwed up because I went to PM's to try and talk Jack into reversing his decision. We'll, I apologize for not wanting to be your personal puppet just to get on your banned list and not accomplish anything useful in the process.

Just give it a rest, Bob

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hey, any time Mark Forbes actually agrees with me I'm fine with it.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know he "actually" agrees with you and isn't just lying?

No answer?

Remember I had a lot of email conversations with Mark, back when I was trying to get you back into USHPA as an "insurance only" member.

I do remember. You made a perfectly good suggestion and you got shot down. Then you renewed your USHPA again like nothing ever happened. You also made perfectly good suggestions about Joe being banned. Again, you were shot down and now continue on as if nothing ever happened.

Just as with Red (since you brought him up), you're willing to accept injustices as long as you get what you want. I'm sorry, but that's a moral tradeoff that I cannot respect. Both you and Red go ballistic when I say these things because you know they're true. I'm sorry to have to say this, but I think you're making a terrible deal with the Devil just to get what you want.

Feel free to yell back in even bigger letters or stomp off in anger. They both prove my point.

_________________
P.S. While I was posting you piled on some more venom. If you look inward you'll find that your anger is really directed at yourself. You know you didn't properly stand up for Joe and that is the source of your anger. The same is true of Red and all the other anonymous critics you cite.

I didn't take heed because I thought our friendship was beyond that sort of thing.

Friends can criticize friends. In fact, that's the criticism that's needed the most (and hurts the most). Your comments at me are quite angry. Why didn't you use that same anger at Jack? Maybe because you knew Jack would ban you and I won't? You reward his bannings with your compliance. You feed his evil. Red does the same. It's your own guilt that makes you both so angry. You direct it at me because I hold up the mirror so you can see what you've done.