[JoeF]

I write a good deal. When Bob has suggested some "text" that he has composed, I thanked him for the effort in the composing. When I adopted some of his composition, I took 100% responsibility for what I put out in my name. He has been open with his habit; he has composed potential letters that others might adopt as their own in processes that included orgs. Receivers of suggestions may not grasp that they may 100% adopt the suggestion or any altered rendering of the suggestion; and upon adoption or partial adoption,the text becomes 100% responsibility of the person who signed whatever text is involved.

I've written suggested text to scores of people; some adopted the text 100% and signed their name; the text then is theirs; I kept no copyright over the suggested text. In common ghostwriting, there are two authors: ghost and adopting person. Are these your words? An adult signing text as owned by them is the owner of the text and is solely responsible for the content of the text. I adopted the very words of this post from someone; someone in my life presented "thanked" and "content" and "grasp." Etc.

Note how Bob has posted publicly some suggested "letters" that could be used (as is or changed per wish" for facing problematic HG people/orgs. Such composing may be seen as a positive service; potential users may adopt all or some or none of the text offered.
When a political candidate is handed some text followed by owning the text in delivery, then that candidate is 100% responsible for what they delivered; they chose to make some text THEIR OWN UPON DELIVERY. Common ways.

Anyone has their own ideas; but those ideas developed on the shoulders of parents, teachers, authors, speakers, friends, ... We adopt from others and then own our final reports; we go to jail if we yell frivolously or maliciously "Fire!" in a crowded theater, even though someone else taught us the word "fire."

One may be thankful for suggestions; thank you, but I'll compose my own; or thank you, my own composition can use one or more of the phrases you have freely offered. All the other phrases in my composition have arrived in me from synthesis of all that has been given me so far in this life. Suggestion and offering are not feudal demands unless such are so. I've never heard nor understood an "order" from Bob when he presented me with offered text; his rapid creativity in the flow of struggle is just that: rapid creativity shared ... take it or take some of it or take none of it. Inert team members coming up with no ideas may not win much.

One might pride oneself as the originator of all one's prose's phrases. But our "text" comes from thousands and more layers of ebbs and flows of what we receive from others. Absolute invention is scarce. Echos abound. It takes a village to form a sentence.

A tease HERE

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks Joe.

Red, you may have been confused. Please read it again and you'll find that all of the quote boxes are properly labelled as from me. The interspersed lines only indicated where you had sent communications which I have not published.

Bob,

WOW, now THAT is outrageous! For the record, everybody; except for the topmost quote box, EVERY ONE of those supposed "... communications from Red ..." above are total LIES. I never said them. They are just fictional BS generated by Bob's over-active imagination, from an unknown fantasy world which has only one occupant. NONE of that junk (seen below the top quote box) came from me.

Bob has tried to put all of those words into my mouth repeatedly, using every form of coercion possible, and when I would not comply with his proposed LYING FRAUD, he posts that stuff here, only wishing that I had said them for him. I DID NOT!

To be clear, Bob, that horrendous episode of "M*A*S*H" is NOT reality, it was just an old TV show, one that lasted several times the length of the real Korean War. They were running out of ideas. No babies were killed in this entire back-and-forth about the operation of another HG forum, and trying to construct the slightest comparison there is FAR beyond lame, it is a despicable manipulation.

You will not win this way, Bob. I view this foolish attempt as abominable. I warn everybody here, you could be the next target in this unrealistic nonsense.

Update:
As I mentioned above, I think Red misinterpreted what I had written. It appears that he's now realized his mistake and deleted the post which I had already captured above.

[Red]

Thanks Joe.
Red, you may have been confused. Please read it again and you'll find that all of the quote boxes are properly labelled as from me. The interspersed lines only indicated where you had sent communications which I have not publisged.

Bob,
WOW, now THAT is outrageous! For the record, everybody; except for the topmost quote box, EVERY ONE of those supposed "... communications from Red ..." above are total LIES. I never said them. They are just fictional BS generated by Bob's over-active imagination, from an unknown fantasy world which has only one occupant. NONE of that junk (seen below the top quote box) came from me.

Bob has tried to put all of those words into my mouth repeatedly, using every form of coercion possible, and when I would not comply with his proposed LYING FRAUD, he posts that stuff here, only wishing that I had said them for him. I DID NOT!

To be clear, Bob, that horrendous episode of "M*A*S*H" is NOT reality, it was just an old TV show, one that lasted several times the length of the real Korean War. They were running out of ideas. No babies were killed in this entire back-and-forth about the operation of another HG forum, and trying to construct the slightest comparison there is FAR beyond lame, it is a despicable manipulation.

You will not win this way, Bob. I view this foolish attempt as abominable. I warn everybody here, you could be the next target in this unrealistic nonsense.[/quote

]Update:
As I mentioned above, I think Red misinterpreted what I had written. It appears that he's now realized his mistake and deleted the post which I had already captured above.

Bob,

IN YOUR DREAMS, maybe; I did not and will not delete anything in my posts for this topic. I retain copies, of course, and I will gladly post what I wrote again, if needed.

I made no mistake. I believe that you wrote that "quoting" post hoping it would be misinterpreted by at least a few people, who might have believed those were true quotes from me. None of those supposed "... communications from Red ..." are my words. That was all Bob, just blowing smoke.

Joe, thanks for the effort, above, and here is my own interpretation, just what I would say as the result of all the harangues from Bob, trying to put words into my mouth:
LYING FRAUD.
Replace all of Bob's text with blank lines; that would be accurate for me. I do not intrude.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Bob,
WOW, now THAT is outrageous! For the record, everybody; except for the topmost quote box, EVERY ONE of those supposed "... communications from Red ..." above are total LIES. I never said them. They are just fictional BS generated by Bob's over-active imagination, from an unknown fantasy world which has only one occupant. NONE of that junk (seen below the top quote box) came from me.

Bob has tried to put all of those words into my mouth repeatedly, using every form of coercion possible, and when I would not comply with his proposed LYING FRAUD, he posts that stuff here, only wishing that I had said them for him. I DID NOT!

Red, wben you calm down, would you mind issuing a retraction of this?

I made no mistake. I believe that you wrote that "quoting" post hoping it would be misinterpreted by at least a few people, who might have believed those were true quotes from me.

Now you're reading my mind?
When you calm down, you might consider retracting this as well. Thanks.

Red, maybe you've spent too much time at other sites where you do have to be concerned about moderators changing your posts. Even though we've met a couple of times, your comments here reveal that you don't know me at all. The U.S. Hawks has a perfect record of honoring what our members write.

[brianscharp]

Just for the record, Red's quote above that captures a corrected misspelled "publisged" and missed up end "[/quote

]" was accurate. I happened to be reading when the update was added and the mistakes corrected. Unfortunately there isn't an edited note, even though it occured after Red's post.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Just for the record, Red's quote above that captures a corrected misspelled "publisged" and missed up end "[/quote

]" was accurate. I happened to be reading when the update was added and the mistakes corrected. Unfortunately there isn't an edited note, even though it occured after Red's post.

You are correct. I fixed the spelling and properly matched the quote afterward. I was rushed to our company Christmas party before I could proof read it. I did not change it in Red's quote because I felt that would be changing HIS post. I don't believe those cosmetic changes ('g' to 'h', and removing whitespace in a quote tag) are what's at issue here. But they remain in Red's post to document my haste.

Red was complaining that I fabricated words that he'd never said. I think it's clear now that's simply not true.

Our forum used to have a 1 hour editing limit, but at the request of one of our members, the Board increased it to 4 hours. As moderator, no changes that I make to any posts (my own or others) change the original date or create an update time stamp.

As many of you know, the owner of a forum can change literally anything. That's why it's important for the owner to hold all posts in high regard. I believe we have the best record in hang gliding here on the U.S. Hawks. Kitestrings had been a close second (or possibly tied for first) until their moderators began rearranging posts to suit someone's agenda.

[Red]

Bob,
WOW, now THAT is outrageous! For the record, everybody; except for the topmost quote box, EVERY ONE of those supposed "... communications from Red ..." above are total LIES. I never said them. They are just fictional BS generated by Bob's over-active imagination, from an unknown fantasy world which has only one occupant. NONE of that junk (seen below the top quote box) came from me.
Bob has tried to put all of those words into my mouth repeatedly, using every form of coercion possible, and when I would not comply with his proposed LYING FRAUD, he posts that stuff here, only wishing that I had said them for him. I DID NOT!

Red, wben you calm down, would you mind issuing a retraction of this?

I made no mistake. I believe that you wrote that "quoting" post hoping it would be misinterpreted by at least a few people, who might have believed those were true quotes from me.

Now you're reading my mind?
When you calm down, you might consider retracting this as well. Thanks.
Red, maybe you've spent too much time at other sites where you do have to be concerned about moderators changing your posts. Even though we've met a couple of times, your comments here reveal that you don't know me at all. The U.S. Hawks has a perfect record of honoring what our members write.

Bob,

Rest assured, I am very calm, and I will retract NOTHING. You said I did retract something, and I know, I did not. Why did you say that, unless you planned to delete something that I wrote? If you had second thoughts about such tactics, well, hey, goodonya, and I do enjoy surprises, even little ones.

If you have had enough of this BS, then just consider something, for me. How many times have you written speeches for me, then sent them to me, together with some form of manipulation to try to coerce me into delivering your LYING FRAUD to another forum? How many times have I flat refused to intrude into the affairs of others? How many times are you going to ask me again?

I have said NO to your proposed LYING FRAUD plenty of times, and please believe that I have a substantial supply of NO answers still available here. It would be foolish to believe that I may someday run out of NO answers for that deception. Surely you can find some more compliant accomplice, instead of me.

[Bob Kuczewski]

You said I did retract something, and I know, I did not. Why did you say that, unless you planned to delete something that I wrote?

I went to look for your post and I didn't find it. It was my mistake. I am operating from a cell phone and it presents a number of challenges. Your jumping to the conclusion that I said that because I was planning to delete your post is faulty logic because it did not account for other possibilities. Besides, why would I delete your post and then quote it in my own post?

Your failure to retract your obviously false statements is a disappointment to me because it puts some serious holes in your credibility. That's sad to me and sad for the sport.

If you have had enough of this BS, then just consider something, for me. How many times have you written speeches for me, then sent them to me, together with some form of manipulation to try to coerce me into delivering your LYING FRAUD to another forum?

I am of Joe's mind on this topic. If I see something where I have knowledge that others might not, I offer that information. I might just say what I know or I might suggest wording or an entire post. But I've never asked you to post what you're calling "LYING FRAUD". In fact, the previously posted messages are good examples of the suggestions I've made. Just out of curiosity, are any of those suggestions what you consider to be "LYING FRAUD"?

[Free]

There seems to be differing stories that George Washington ordered the execution of mutinous soldiers during the Revolutionary War.
I'll have to research that more. If true, and it might have happened, Bob probably got that programming in his DARPA supplied brain chip injected in his Ranger training. I can't be so hard on him as last post where I thought he had gone too far in expecting more from others in the opposition to grave injustice to all present and future hang gliding pilots.
My previous post might be seen as somewhat negative to Bob. I apologize and retract. Driving a bus over a cliff is a pretty good trick. Naming a thread thusly could get more views so has its strategic value.
Publicity is the ammo in this INFOWAR (S.com).
Oddly enough, the bigger picture of media censorship is playing out at the same time in Washington. Who could make this stuff up?
Google's head guy just perjured himself before Congress where he LIED about Project Dragonfly! .. the oppressive Chinese social score control grid being vied for by google and Apple. Who gets the lucrative contract to track, control and enslave the Chinese people?

This is the new world odor I've been know to bitch, bitch, bitch about for about 20 years. Red, you remember don't you?
This was part of the reason i t was so easy for past USHGA President to be so easily duped into banning me from the closest thing the borg ever had to an actual member's message board. Blindrodie had his ear. Conspiracy theorist. .. and its all come true.

These are exciting times my friends.

[Bob Kuczewski]

These are exciting times my friends.

Exciting times indeed. If I were some kind of cyber implanted super human pawn of the government, do you really think I'd be here slugging it out with Red trying to defend Joe Faust's right to post on hanggliding.org?



If you've ever needed proof that I'm just someone who loves flying and fairness ... it's right here.