Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby magentabluesky » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:53 pm

Joe,

As always Joe, your thought streams are cherished.

Thank you for your insight.

Why is the sky blue?

JoeF wrote:Preamble:
Have a bowl of cereal with sweet and sour parts in the bowl.
Is the bowl of cereal with sweetness. Yes.
Is the bowl of cereal with sourness. Yes.

Jack (sg) had in subject thread at his place actions by himself. My take of his action set was that some of his actions were unjust; some of his actions were within his rights as property owner. I am with the assumption that unjust actions do not become just by fact of his being property owner.

A land property owner may block a HG pilot from using owned land; but if in the process of communicating and then installing the blocking mechanisms, the property owner steals valuables from the HG pilot, then some injustice becomes evident. The case becomes clearer when the HG pilot was already admitted to do hang gliding on the property; and then during such hang gliding the property owner reverses direction; of course the HG pilot should stop HG when owner bans him or her from the property. But such whole process gives the property owner no license to steal value from HG pilot. That I was banned was an action within Jack's right as forum owner; that Jack used phony reasons and style and expressions and methods in a manner that stole reputation was not necessary to protect his right to ban a poster. Jack said I broke certain rules that I did not break; he let stand that I was a rule breaker; such were acts of stealing in my estimation. Jack let abuse be piled on a polite poster; such was within his power, but such was not fair relative to his agreements with people.

====
I am with belief that in forums it is often too easy for a poster to get seemingly behind the veil of belief and motivation and intention and too loosely make sentences over another's beliefs, motivations, and intentions while unfortunately neglecting to robustly preface such with: "It is my personal opinion that so-and-so believes such or so or was motivated by such or so or intended this or that." So, when the discourse runs up against this challenge and confusion, it might be polite to retrace and put that robust preface up, if applicable. Bob has offered to do some of that retrace posting of such preface, if such would help over some statements made. The "why" question from a child often stumps parents; I was so stumped; how far should I go in answering my child when she asked, "Why is the sky blue?" Are participants in a mix assuming that the big preface is understood? If not commonly understood, then mistakes of mutual understanding may be made. And, if that preface is not practiced some in the mix, then participants might even forget the structure operating. I do not have absolute God vision over what I am writing now as any more than my approximate opinion.
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Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:24 pm

magentabluesky wrote:As always Joe, your thought streams are cherished.


Bob Kuczewski's definition of being "cherished":

Jack,

Joe Faust is a cherished member of the hang gliding community. I understand that this is your forum and you can treat people as unfairly as you please. But if you don't treat people fairly starting with Joe Faust right now, I'm going to another forum and I'm going to do my best to encourage all my friends and all others to join me.


Michael Grisham's definition of being "cherished":

  
  


Fill in the blank Michael.
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Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:20 pm

Gentlemen of the Board, there's been a motion and a second:

Bob Kuczewski wrote:    I move that the U.S. Hawks Advisory Board find that   
   Joe Faust was unjustly banned from hanggliding.org in 2018   
   considering the existing rules in place at that site and time.    

Bill Cummings wrote:I   second  


Please feel free to vote at your pleasure.
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Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby wingspan33 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:15 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote:O.K. Back to the main topic.

We have a motion and a second. We can vote at any time.

I cast my vote   Yes   that the U.S. Hawks Advisory Board find that Joe Faust was unjustly banned from hanggliding.org in 2018 considering the existing rules in place at that site and time.


I vote   YES  
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Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby JoeF » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:56 am

I cast my vote   Yes   that the U.S. Hawks Advisory Board find that Joe Faust was unjustly banned from hanggliding.org in 2018 considering the existing rules in place at that site and time.
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Concerning Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Topic

Postby wingspan33 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:19 pm

The following quote was put forward by Michael Grisham as basis for serious complaint against Bob K and the US Hawks

Bob Kuczewski wrote:Re: MoHawk Uprising
by Bob Kuczewski » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:51 am
Here's the truest analogy. Frank Colver, Tom "Red" Howard, and Mike Grisham were all aware that Joe Faust was being unjustly treated by Jack Axaopoulos ("sg"). They were all aware that Joe's voice was being silenced. And yet they all chose to protect their own ability to "hang out in Jack's living room" rather than stand in solidarity with Joe.

There's no truer analogy ... than the truth


The first thing I will address is that Bob states that three people "were all aware that Joe Faust was being unjustly treated by Jack Axaopoulos".

Bob must establish that these people were in fact "aware" of what he is describing. Bob can explain how he knew this. But if it was an assumption then it was improper for Bob to make the claim.

The third sentence is a basic restatement of the second sentence. It just specifically adds/defines that the unjust action taken by SG was to silence Joe Faust on hg.org.

The fourth sentence seems to be the heart of the issue. It includes " . . . they all chose to protect their own ability to 'hang out in Jack's living room' . . .".

Now as long as they were in fact aware that Joe was being treated unjustly then how they responded (or how they chose) influenced their ability to remain on hg.org. When a person is aware of a situation, then doing something or not doing something in regard to it, involves choice. That choice can most certainly be, to chose to do nothing. The motivation, or lack thereof, for that choice is in the mind of the chooser.

The fourth sentence goes from what we just considered to "[these three people chose not to]. . . stand in solidarity with Joe."

Once again, assuming that these three people were aware of what SG did to Joe Faust (and why he did it), then it is obvious that they truly did not stand "in solidarity with Joe".

But we must also consider what "solidarity" means. Most of us have a general idea of what the term means. And considering that none of the three named people published any public comments on hg.org in support of Joe Faust being reinstated at hg.org, or against the actions taken by SG to ban Joe from hg.org, then most people would agree that the three named people did not "stand in solidarity" with Joe by speaking up to alter the actions of SG.

If one or any of the three individuals who Bob named above, in their heart, actually believe that Joe's banning from hg.org was a good thing and a proper action for SG to have taken, then they maintain more "solidarity" with SG than with Joe Faust. Even if the scales simply tipped a little in favor of SG, then that particular person failed to "stand in solidarity" with Joe Faust. Solidarity is not an "if, maybe, almost" type of thing.

By choosing to not do anything, or in any specific individual case, to not do enough, via private messages to SG, or byway of adequate public comments on hg.org, then these three people truly did do what Bob is saying they did in the above opening quote.

However, if Bob did not actually know that the three individuals understood Joe's problem was unjust, then Bob may not have been justified in criticizing them. But if Bob talked or communicated with each of them and they untruthfully agreed with Bob that what happened to Joe was unjust, then Bob can't be responsible for acting with inaccurate information.

There's another possibility as well. Bob may have assumed that the three individuals hold similar moral and ethical standards as he holds. If this happened to be the case then his amazement that these three people did nothing to work toward correcting the wrong done by SG makes complete sense. It also makes sense if these people told Bob that they agreed that what SG did was wrong.

Michael Grisham, From Bob's perspective, and in connection with any facts he knew of and/or in connection with (at least his, as well as typical) moral and ethical standards, the three people above did exactly what Bob is saying they did. They continue to be able to post on hg.org and either acted inadequately or completely failed to act toward the positive goal of having Joe Faust's hg.org banning reversed.

I did things SG didn't like and got banned. Bob K did things SG didn't like and got banned. I am proud to no longer be a member of sg.org. I think I can say the same thing for Bob. If I had been a member of sg.org back when Joe got banned I would have asked SG "Why?". And I may also have then been banned. But I would now be able to say I am PROUD to have stuck up for Joe Faust! If I hadn't spoken up I'd be ashamed that I kept silent (even if I could keep posting).
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Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby SamKellner » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:03 pm

I Vote  Yes   unjustly banned.
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Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby Bill Cummings » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:05 pm

SamKellner wrote:I Vote  Yes   unjustly banned.

  YES   Joe was unjustly banner.
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Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:52 pm

Michael,

Four of the best men I've known have just voted that Joe Faust was unfairly banned.

Can you find it in your conscience to agree with them?
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Re: Michael Grisham's Cease and Desist Request

Postby magentabluesky » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:01 am

My Cease and Desist Request has been Hi-Jacked

Bob, you and your best men are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I do not share that opinion.

The essential elements of my “Cease and Desist Letter” are:

Bob Kuczewski has Hi-Jacked my Free-Speech by talking for me.

Bob Kuczewski has stolen my voice.

Bob Kuczewski has declared my beliefs which are not my beliefs. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared what my motives are which are not my motives. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared what my feelings are which are not my feelings. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared “Michael Grisham’s Confession” it is not my confession. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared these declarations as the truth. It is a lie.

I have made known my true beliefs, motives, and feelings to Bob Kuczewski. So if Bob Kuczewski has a conscious rational mind of a normal human being, Bob Kuczewski should know he is propagating lies about Michael Grisham’s true beliefs, motives, and feelings.

Michael Grisham’s Cease and Desist Request is:

Bob Kuczewski stop speaking for Michael Grisham steeling my voice and identity.

Bullsh-t Bob Kuczewski needs to stop promoting his lying fraud about Michael Grisham.

I expect a retraction and an apology from Bob Kuczewski and the US Hawks Board.

As a matter of fact, Bob Kuczewski and the US Hawks Board should also publicly apologize to Frank Colver and Tom ‘Red” Howard and the Hang Gliding Community for Bob Kuczewski’ behavior in this matter.

If you actually believe the terms of your registration agreement, Bob Kuczewski should resign from the US Hawks Board and be banned from the US Hawks forum for violation of the registration agreement as he has slandered my name and reputation.

I am not a willing participant in the Spanish Inquisition or the US Hawks Inquisition.

I am in agreement with Galileo, Bob Kuczewski is not the center of the Universe.

“All it takes for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.”
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