[magentabluesky]

Joe Faust,

I backed off of my computer and went out in the front yard and asked this question: What country do I live in? The answer was the United States of America, a Republic, a populace sovereignty, governed by the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Amendments. The First Amendment governs the freedom of speech and the freedom of the press. The United States Supreme Court is authoritative opinion as what those words mean.

The United States Supreme Court has ruled case after case that the owner, publisher, editor have complete authority and responsibility for their content. If they are not responsible in publishing and editing their content, the remedy is through the court system. If they are publishing untruthful information, slanderous, or defaming information damaging another party, the remedy is civil court.

This applies to everyone. Everyone has an equal right to the freedom of speech and the press.

Jack has the same right as Joe. Joe has the same right as Jack.

Jack is the authority and completely responsible for what is printed (posted) on Hang Gliding dot Org.

Joe is the authority and completely responsible for what is printed (posted) on all of Joe’s many websites.

That is the way has been since the founding of the United States of America with the one exception that I know of, the FCC Fairness Doctrine in effect from 1949 to 2011. The FCC finally ruled that the FCC Fairness Doctrine was unconstitutional.

Joe, you have brought up the concept of responsible speech.

Do you think it is responsible speech for a Christian go to the Jewish Synagogue with their New Testament Bible and proclaim Jesus as the Messiah in the middle of a Jewish service?

Joe Faust wrote: “The case becomes clearer when the HG pilot was already admitted to do hang gliding on the property; and then during such hang gliding the property owner reverses direction; of course the HG pilot should stop HG when owner bans him or her from the property.”
Link

On May 19, 2016 you, Joe Faust, posted Jack’s rules on US Hawks website. By posting those rules it would be a reasonable assumption for everyone reading your post that you too had read Jacks rules.

One of Jack’s rules is, “Don’t spam the forum. No advertising on this site. Ask SG for permission first.”
Link

Did you ask Jack for permission to post links to “USHGRS”?

Jack is the owner, publisher, and editor, so Jack is the ultimate authority as to what is spam or advertising. The United States Supreme Court says Jack is the ultimate authority. You may claim you are not selling anything, but by posting a link you are directing traffic away from Jack’s website. Jack receives advertising money through traffic on Hang Gliding dot Org. and if you are directing traffic away from Hang Gliding dot Org without Jack’s permission by his published rules, you are stealing from Jack.

Also you, Joe Faust, specifically commented about “Jack’s heavy-hand rule”

Jack's heavy-hand rule over his forum reveals a huge rift in hang gliding online discussion opportunity. Jack wants to be "part of this community" which he carves out a huge faction of people and dubs them "poison" to the sport of hang gliding; he makes such his official rule. Jack Axaopoulos alias "sg" Participants in his forum must always face the possibility that they themselves may be titled "poison" at any turn by Jack. Jack has programmed certain words and links to be converted to derogatory non-linking phrases; this prevents his forum participants from freely sharing information about hang gliding. Jack has proven to be a thought-controller by his rules. Yet he uses "please" in "Please treat the admin as a regular user." There is no logical way for a sound participant to treat the admin Jack A. as "regular user" when guillotine ax is ever near Jack's hand and keyboard.
The story about how Jack A. treated a trust regarding Torrey Hawks has been written in the USHawks forum someplace:
_______________________________________ Careful study of the actions involved would bring important data to those who are participating in Jack's forum.

So it would appear you, Joe Faust, had read Jack’s rules:

Please treat the admin as a regular user. As long as you follow the rules, there is NO CHANCE you will banned because you disagree with the admin. The admin would like to be part of this community too without having to walk on egg shells because people think his word holds more weight for whatever reason. It does not. But the admin will do his job as moderator when he has to. But please follow the rules and don't make him do it, he doesn't enjoy that part.

While Jack may have an open invitation to come on Hang Gliding do Org, Jack has clearly stated the conditions of use on the website and you, Joe Faust, posted Jack’s rules on May 19, 2016 forwarded the post to the US Hawks forum. Jack has not changed the rules mid-flight.

As long as you have not been discriminated against on the basis of sex, race, national origin, religion, age, disability, and in some cases sexual orientation, Jack has the absolute authority to publish, edit, or ban you from his site. He does not need any rule or reason. The above is how I understand the law in the United States of America. It has been that way for over two-hundred and twenty-eight years.

One of the most recent cases decided on June 4, 2018 is Masterpiece Cakeshop, LTD v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission where baker Jack Phillips a devout Christian claimed it was a violation of his free exercise of religion and of his free speech rights to be compelled to create a gay wedding cake. Jack Phillips was not discriminating against the customers based on sexual orientation but on his free speech expression rights. The United Supreme Court ruled in favor of Jack Phillips on the narrow grounds of free exercise of religion and free speech rights in being the owner, publisher and editor of creating cakes.

Thomas opined support for Masterpiece, both on grounds of free speech and free exercise.

Masterpiece Cakeshop, LTD v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission No. 16-111. Decided June 4, 2018 (pdf)

Wikipedia Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission

Even though the gay men have rights not to be discriminated against due to sexual orientation the courts ruled in favor of the free exercise of religion and free speech right of Jack Phillips. There is no special right requiring Jack to provide web space or band width for the USHGRS just like there is no special right requiring you to provide web space or band width for paragliding as long as you, Joe Faust, are not discriminating on the basis of sex, race, national origin, religion, age, disability, and in some cases sexual orientation.

Are you saying that Jack Phillips should have to make a gay wedding cake?

Are you saying that Jack should have to post links to the USHGRS when he does not believe in it?

As a responsible United States Citizen I agree with Supreme Court of the United States. Their approach seems reasonable to me.

Nobody should be compelled to do something they do not believe in.

Nobody should be compelled say something they do not believe in.

I am truly sorry, I don’t see an argument for your defense except, I will defend your right as an owner, publisher, and editor just as would any other including Jack.

What would you have me do, go protest Jack Phillips’ bakery shop?

The Essential Elements of My Cease and Desist Request

The above statement is what I believe and have believed for months now, but Bob Kuczewski has stolen my voice and is speaking for me. I do not believe the words Bob Kuczewski says I believe. They are not my beliefs. The motives Bob Kuczewski says I have are not my motives, and now the feelings Bob Kuczewski say I have are not my feelings. I have clearly communicated to Bob Kuczewski that he is not my spokes person, those are not my beliefs, those are not my motives, and those are not my feelings. But Bob Kuczewski persists to speak for me to the point that Bob Kuczewski has stolen my speech.

You, Joe Faust, Bob Kuczewski, and the US Hawks Board are perfectly free to have your opinions and express those opinions, but you have no right to speak for me or represent my beliefs which are not my beliefs. Bob has been clearly been informed that those are not my beliefs, motives, or feelings.

When Bob Kuczewski post’s “Michael Grisham’s Confessions” and it is not my confession it is:

Identity Theft by Bob Kuczewski

[magentabluesky]

Post by Joe Faust:
Link

Re: Hang gliding is in more trouble than I thought.
by JoeF » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:27 pm
My answer:
Yes and No.

Yes: Reason: I just didn't fit well into that space.
I should not have been there in the first place.
I've gotten clearer about such matter, thanks to this recent processing;
thanks to all those who have been part of this process. And thanks to
US Hawks for a place to process such flows. There might come a time
when that space is modified so that I'd fit. I hope others are benefiting
from the process.

No: Reason: It was not my choice then to leave. I was following polices and being polite.

I am no longer trying to get back to being a poster in Jack's forum because of his published and practicing polices and ways and means. Thank you for your actions toward an unban result--appreciated. Even if unbanned, I'd not publish in Jack's forum until severe changes are made in his policies and practices. Many other avenues are available to share HG ideas, notes, and images!

Thanks, much lift to you an yours
and your projects,
Joe

[magentabluesky]

Post by Joe Faust:
Link

Re: Hang gliding is in more trouble than I thought.
by JoeF » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:27 am
Bob, the "things to think about" may be expanded:

1. I am on the "inside" of hang gliding working for reform and new form. I am free to contact any hang glider pilot that cares to be contacted; and my flow is to achieve just that.

2. Being on the inside of sg's space slows me down, as there is ever energy to face sg's rightful ownership of his private property; and he is firmly set to form ends that are not something I support. He has been extremely consistent managing his private property forum space the way that he does. He has robbed Torrey Hawks and maintains a robbery; he could be taken to court and end up paying Torrey Hawks hardcore damages; for years I have repeated to you of my estimate on that culpability.

3. Being on the inside of sg's private-property forum space is giving away good time and asset that may be applied to RHG.

4. I am on the outside of all all my neighbors' private bedrooms doing works that benefit the neighborhood. I am in the neighborhood solidly renewing the neighborhood.

5. I have shared with you that I've always winced at myself whenever I posted in sg's forum space; the wincing was guilt for compromising my integrity; my integrity would not have posted ever following insight of how sg runs his private property. I must again thank the US Hawks process for helping me move to be more united in myself about such nicking away at my integrity.

6. A comparison with Rosa Parks in bus does not align with sg's protected private property rights; Rosa won a seat appropriately; law well protects rightly sg's right to his private property.

7. Sg fumbled in the manner that he banned; he could have used another tactic less onerous; but he had a clear right to ban.

8. Just because I have grown more clear does not automatically mean the sour-grapes syndrome is operating. Care to avoid a non-sequitor.

9. I want to be in well-formed forums. I am in one that is pretty well well-formed.

10. You have done great and good HG works via focus on the US Hawks. May such continue ever more fruitfully. sg is welcome to join the conversation about RHG here in US Hawks forum where great things are underway.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Michael,

I agree with the Supreme Court's decision in the Phillips case (Masterpiece Cakeshop, LTD v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission). That's never been the issue.

My statement has been that it was shameful of you to remain a participant (customer) of Jack's forum without continually speaking out about the unfair treatment of Joe Faust. In my opinion, there were two honorable paths for you to take:

1. Continually speak out against Joe's unfair treatment.
2. Cease all participation in Jack's forum in protest of Joe being unfairly treated.

Since you seem obsessed with the Phillips case, let me cast it in those terms. If you were gay and did not like Mr. Phillips refusing to bake a cake for your gay friend, then there would be two honorable paths for you to take:

1. Speak out against it (protesting on the property until ejected and then continuing to protest on public property and in the public media).
2. Cease all patronage of the cake shop.

They are the same two remedies in both cases.

Your dilemma is that you didn't do either of those in Joe's case. You neither spoke up (beyond your brief protests) nor walked out. I call that shameful, and it's within my constitutional rights to say so.

[Bob Kuczewski]

One of Jack’s rules is, “Don’t spam the forum. No advertising on this site. Ask SG for permission first.”

Did you ask Jack for permission to post links to “USHGRS”?

How many links to other web sites have been posted on hanggliding.org? Have they all gone through the request process that you've outlined? How about your own posted links to other web sites? Did you ask permission for each one?

Why are those questions relevant? Because my statements have been about fairness. You keep trying to make it about something other than fairness because you know it was unfair. Even in your example here you've failed to recognize that lots of people post lots of links to lots of sites on hanggliding.org. Can Jack legally decide to "black ball" certain web sites? Maybe he can. But that doesn't make it fair. Please read my previous post for clarification.

Finally, I have asked other members of the forum to post their related responses to the existing topics to keep from flooding the forum with "Michael Grisham" topics. Just yesterday, I asked Scott if he would allow me to merge his new topic into the main existing topic. Even though Scott did feel that his new perspective was worthy of a separate topic, he was kind enough to consent to the merge in order to reduce the proliferation of new "Michael Grisham" topics and make it easier on readers. I will not force merging of your topics, but you do a disservice to both yourself and to other readers by continually spawning new topics when existing topics remain available (and unlocked). There are people using this forum who would like to see and discuss news other than "Michael Grisham". Please be considerate of them. You are also making it hard on people who want to follow your case because you've scattered the discussions across so many different topics. Please be considerate of them as well. Thanks.

[magentabluesky]

[Bob Kuczewski]

We are dealing with it. We're dealing with it by trying to make it fairer in the little corner of the world we inhabit.

Do you think your "Life's not fair ... deal with it" poster would have been a satisfactory response to the Declaration of Independence? The Declaration of Independence included a laundry list of things the colonists felt were unfair. That's why they wrote it in the first place.

Michael, when your best argument is "Life's not fair ... deal with it", you may want to consider that you have a pretty weak case.

[magentabluesky]

We are dealing with it. We're dealing with it by trying to make it fairer in the little corner of the world we inhabit

Then you need to specifically address the issue that has been put before you:

My Cease and Desist Request has been Hi-Jacked

Bob, you and your best men are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I do not share that opinion.

The essential elements of my “Cease and Desist Letter” are:

Bob Kuczewski has Hi-Jacked my Free-Speech by talking for me.

Bob Kuczewski has stolen my voice.

Bob Kuczewski has declared my beliefs which are not my beliefs. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared what my motives are which are not my motives. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared what my feelings are which are not my feelings. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared “Michael Grisham’s Confession” it is not my confession. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared these declarations as the truth. It is a lie.

I have made known my true beliefs, motives, and feelings to Bob Kuczewski. So if Bob Kuczewski has a conscious rational mind of a normal human being, Bob Kuczewski should know he is propagating lies about Michael Grisham’s true beliefs, motives, and feelings.

Michael Grisham’s Cease and Desist Request is:

Bob Kuczewski stop speaking for Michael Grisham steeling my voice and identity.

Bullsh-t Bob Kuczewski needs to stop promoting his lying fraud about Michael Grisham.

I expect a retraction and an apology from Bob Kuczewski and the US Hawks Board.

As a matter of fact, Bob Kuczewski and the US Hawks Board should also publicly apologize to Frank Colver and Tom ‘Red” Howard and the Hang Gliding Community for Bob Kuczewski’ behavior in this matter.

If you actually believe the terms of your registration agreement, Bob Kuczewski should resign from the US Hawks Board and be banned from the US Hawks forum for violation of the registration agreement as he has slandered my name and reputation.

I am not a willing participant in the Spanish Inquisition or the US Hawks Inquisition.

I am in agreement with Galileo, Bob Kuczewski is not the center of the Universe.

“All it takes for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.”

[Bob Kuczewski]

Michael,

Your "cease and desist" letter only contained one example of purported wrongdoing:

Re: MoHawk Uprising
by Bob Kuczewski » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:51 am
Here's the truest analogy. Frank Colver, Tom "Red" Howard, and Mike Grisham were all aware that Joe Faust was being unjustly treated by Jack Axaopoulos ("sg"). They were all aware that Joe's voice was being silenced. And yet they all chose to protect their own ability to "hang out in Jack's living room" rather than stand in solidarity with Joe.

There's no truer analogy ... than the truth.

We are dealing with that as expeditiously as possible given your unwillingness to answer simple questions related to the heart of your complaint. Your cease and desist topic has NOT been hijacked. It is proceeding to carefully examine the quote (the only quote) that you presented in your complaint. You would help that process by posting your related comments only to that topic. Thank you.

We are dealing with it. We're dealing with it by trying to make it fairer in the little corner of the world we inhabit

Then you need to specifically address the issue that has been put before you:

My Cease and Desist Request has been Hi-Jacked

Bob, you and your best men are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I do not share that opinion.

The essential elements of my “Cease and Desist Letter” are:

Bob Kuczewski has Hi-Jacked my Free-Speech by talking for me.

Bob Kuczewski has stolen my voice.

Bob Kuczewski has declared my beliefs which are not my beliefs. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared what my motives are which are not my motives. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared what my feelings are which are not my feelings. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared “Michael Grisham’s Confession” it is not my confession. It is a lie.

Bob Kuczewski has declared these declarations as the truth. It is a lie.

I have made known my true beliefs, motives, and feelings to Bob Kuczewski. So if Bob Kuczewski has a conscious rational mind of a normal human being, Bob Kuczewski should know he is propagating lies about Michael Grisham’s true beliefs, motives, and feelings.

Michael Grisham’s Cease and Desist Request is:

Bob Kuczewski stop speaking for Michael Grisham steeling my voice and identity.

Bullsh-t Bob Kuczewski needs to stop promoting his lying fraud about Michael Grisham.

I expect a retraction and an apology from Bob Kuczewski and the US Hawks Board.

As a matter of fact, Bob Kuczewski and the US Hawks Board should also publicly apologize to Frank Colver and Tom ‘Red” Howard and the Hang Gliding Community for Bob Kuczewski’ behavior in this matter.

If you actually believe the terms of your registration agreement, Bob Kuczewski should resign from the US Hawks Board and be banned from the US Hawks forum for violation of the registration agreement as he has slandered my name and reputation.

I am not a willing participant in the Spanish Inquisition or the US Hawks Inquisition.

I am in agreement with Galileo, Bob Kuczewski is not the center of the Universe.

“All it takes for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.”

[Bob Kuczewski]

Michael, you haven't read or understood my comments because I have clearly sided with the Supreme Court's decision in that case. I stated so very plainly.

It is obviously you did not read and comprehended my “Letter to Joe Faust”.

If you would have read and comprehended my “Letter to Joe Faust”, you would realize your following statement is false:

My statement has been that it was shameful of you to remain a participant (customer) of Jack's forum without continually speaking out about the unfair treatment of Joe Faust.

Since this is a false statement, I feel no shame and I see no need for action except to stop you from misrepresenting my beliefs, motives, feelings, and now dilemmas.

Since you seem obsessed with the Phillips case, let me cast it in those terms. If you were gay and did not like Mr. Phillips refusing to bake a cake for your gay friend, then there would be two honorable paths for you to take:

1. Speak out against it (protesting on the property until ejected and then continuing to protest on public property and in the public media).

2. Cease all patronage of the cake shop.

Bob, you are free to join the protest at Mr. Phillips bakery shop if you feel the gay couple was unfairly treated.