[Free]

P.S. Rigderodent's locked down Davis Show thread is now at close to seventy-two hundred hits so maybe this is an issue worth looking into and discussing over here a bit - even if we do hafta get into a tiny bit of bothersome theory and use some actual numbers.

We don't need no steenkin theories.. no numbers and absolutely no physics allowed!

[TadEareckson]

Yeah, why bother with any of that rot when we've got...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31

I'll take our opinion over yours any day of the week.

...expert OPINION based upon hundreds of thousands of repetitions over a twenty year period of getting really good at doing things wrong.

And - oops - forgot to include Antoine in the list of fairly recent Davis Show combatants.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Any comment, BOB? Or are people like Mike Lake, Zack, Nobody, and Yours Truly less important than certain others in this Brave New World of yours?

Hey Tad,

What would give you the idea that Mike, Zack, Nobody, and yourself are less important than others? You're still able to post here, aren't you? Besides, why would you lump them in with you? I haven't seen any of them exhibit the bile and hatred that seems to come so naturally from your keyboard.

This has been an experiment to see what free speech accomplishes in the hang gliding world. The results will be whatever you make of them. If this ends up as a dead site, then I may have to conclude that Jack and Davis were right to have banned you. You can make them right or wrong by your own antagonism of our other members.

So far, I'm not optimistic. But prove me wrong and I'll be more than happy to admit that I've misjudged you!!   

[TadEareckson]

What would give you the idea that Mike, Zack, Nobody, and yourself are less important than others?

And Antoine.

1. Ninety-nine percent of the hang gliding population have brains the size of walnuts. I cite Jim Gaar, Kinsley Sykes, Tormod, Bart Weghorst, Marc Fink, and Cragin Shelton as typical and rather obvious examples from the recent "discussion" on The Davis Show.

2. Only one percent of the hang gliding population will question the legitimacy of one hand critical situation flying of hang gliders on tow, bent pin releases, and one-size-fits-all, blows-every-other-tow, 130 pound Greenspot lockout preventers making towing safe.

3. If I play nice with the kids who sing in harmony with Davis, Jack, and Rooney - kids like Sam and Pilgrim - US Hawks will be able to fill its ranks more quickly with other kids with brains the size of walnuts who sing in harmony with Davis, Jack, and Rooney.

4. In order for a breakaway organization to become something better than USHGA, HPAC, BHPA, DHV, HGFA, and the rest of the walnut brained national organizations which follow USHGA's lead and infest the rest of the planet, it will be necessary to make life as miserable as possible for the two-plus-two-equals-whatever-the-hell-we-say-it-does crowd so that we can use the non dregs to establish a constitutional foundation of two plus two equals four.

5. We may have a conflict of interest in this organization in that you're looking for quantity fast and I'm going for quality and willing to wait for however long it takes - like at Kite Strings. (In aviation the latter approach has always seemed best in the long - and short - runs.) And Sam's singing in harmony and getting along with a whole lot more kids than Mike, Zack, Nobody, Anthony, and Yours Truly ever will. We're the kind of people most likely to get locked down, deleted, banned, and told:

Jim Gaar - 2011/07/14

If you don't like it, you just take your ball and go home...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31

I honestly don't care what you think.
You're not the one making the decisions here.

You're still able to post here, aren't you?

Sure. And people are still able to ignore the points I'm making and not respond to questions which, if answered, would undermine and destroy their clueless and dangerous positions - just like on The Cragin, Peter, Jack, and Davis Shows (and I bunch of others of which I've lost track).

Besides, why would you lump them in with you?

The two-plus-two-equals-four and ten-year-old-kid-common-sense things.

I haven't seen any of them exhibit the bile and hatred that seems to come so naturally from your keyboard.

1. I have not yet completed their training.

But Zack, for example, seems to be making pretty good progress all on his own.

2011/08/26

Wow. The irony. The ARROGANCE. And people call TAD arrogant...I can see why you have so much contempt for this guy, Tad.

It's amazing what one exchange with Rooney can do for someone. Makes my job SO much easier.

And this, from Ridgerodent the Troll:

2011/09/04

I learned to fly a hang glider in 1980, asshole.

whom I strongly suspect is also Nobody... Sounds like he's got the bile component down pretty good and only needs a touch more in the hatred department.

And let's not forget this one from Nobody at Kite Strings:

2011/08/10

Bob, you're full of shitt. Go learn how to launch with a tight hang strap!

The subsequent apology indicated a little deficiency in bile but one can't expect perfection one hundred percent of the time.

2. You group people together - and include people to whom principles of science, mathematics, honesty, fairness, and decency mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - you're gonna get bile and hatred, a lot of it justified, appropriate, and necessary for positive change. You found a nation on the principle that all men are created equal and immediately gut it by making exceptions, trust me, you're gonna get bile and hatred - and possibly a lot of the lead-based side effects.

This has been an experiment to see what free speech accomplishes in the hang gliding world.

I could've saved you the trouble. Free speech within a population of glider divers in which only a microscopic percentage can hack its way though junior high level math and science will be - and has been - a near total disaster.

If you read the FAA's Glider Flying Handbook you will find an extremely solid piece of work chock-full of long winded explanations. That's 'cause it was put together by very competent people with thorough understandings of the PHYSICS and THEORY of flight. They didn't open it up for input from every asshole who's ever participated in a tow from one end of the rope or the other who had an...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31

I'll take our opinion over yours any day of the week.

...OPINION on something. If you want a book which is nothing more than a collection of a lot of free speech opinions from a lot of free speech a**holes then read Towing Aloft - and compare/contrast to the Glider Flying Handbook.

But you keep doing all the goddam free speech you want. Just, if it's stupid and dangerous, count on Yours Truly to counter it immediately with my free speech. And, if it's the fourth or fifth time I've tried to get the point across, count on the response being brutal prior to the aforementioned stupid and dangerous free speech getting someone mangled and/or killed. (Not that I really care all that much about diver drivers getting mangled and killed - I just LOVE being able to say, "Told ya so. " and being able to document something with a time stamp. You'd think I'd be getting a little tired of it by now but it just NEVER seems to get old for me.)

The results will be whatever you make of them.

Good. Better me than the vast majority of people - with OPINIONS - I can think of.

If this ends up as a dead site...

If this ends up as a dead site it'll ONLY be 'cause it didn't have much going for it to begin with. If it did then one person with a keyboard and no access to edit, lock, delete, and ban buttons wouldn't be able to kill it or do any real damage.

Anybody who feels like keeping it alive can:

a) read something and make a click counter go up;
b) post something; and/or
c) ask a question of or raise an issue with me.

...then I may have to conclude that Jack and Davis were right to have banned you.

You do that, Bob. Then you try again as the US Condors or something, use The Jack and Davis Model for a successful organization, and appoint Sam as your Towing Committee Chairman 'cause he's singing in harmony with the people who know what they're doing.

And you might wanna take a look at The Jack and Davis Shows threads at which I was banned to get some ideas on how to best deal with someone like me.

Or...

You could save yourself the trouble and just review the threads at which you were banned by Jack and Davis - pretty much the same thing.

You can make them right or wrong by your own antagonism of our other members.

They ARE right. There's absolutely NOTHING I can do - short of caving to incompetence and stupidity - to change that.

Try to find examples of minority position members antagonizing establishment members and see how long that goes on. Jack and Davis have EXTREMELY cohesive pilot cults - sorry, COMMUNITIES - in which everyone gets along with everyone else famously. The levels of cohesiveness those guys have achieved bring tears streaming down my cheeks. What it must be like to be a part of a group like one of those and know that wherever in the world you go you won't be far from a friend who shares all the same beliefs, opinions, and values.

If only they weren't all bunches of half-witted scummy fascist SH*THEADS. Of course if they weren't all bunches of half-witted scummy fascist SH*THEADS they probably wouldn't be members of cohesive pilot cults - DAMN! Did it again! COMMUNITIES - so there's probably some kind of Catch-22 thing going on there.

So you can pretty much bank on me proving them right by being over here antagonizing the absolute hell out of US Hawks members who sing in harmony with them and jeopardizing your experiment in free (popular) speech.

But just note that, while Tad Eareckson is banned from the Sam Kellner forum, Sam Kellner isn't banned from the Tad Eareckson forum. That's probably 'cause Tad Eareckson isn't much worried about Sam Kellner's OPINIONS on hang gliding being able to override Newtonian physics and sway anyone who can cut it in the classroom. And I'm really only interested in getting through to the folk who can cut it in the classroom.

And Tad Eareckson isn't the least bit worried about Kite Strings becoming a dead site or having been a failure. If it gets permanently hacked out of existence tomorrow it will not have been a failure because at least five people - Yours Truly included - have LEARNED something from it. And at least three of those people - Yours Truly included - have improved the way they operate. And that's a helluva lot better than USHGA and the Flight Park Mafia can say they've accomplished in the past twenty years.

So far, I'm not optimistic.

Great! All of your really good aviators are pessimists.

But prove me wrong and I'll be more than happy to admit that I've misjudged you!!

Nope, you've judged me just fine. I'll be operating basically the same way I was when I was getting kicked out of seven other forums. Just a bit quicker on the draw and giving a bit less of a rat's a** about who I antagonize and the extent to which I do it. And, of course, enjoying it a bit more.

Now...

Can you review the US Hawks mission and principles statements outlined in the FAQs and tell me which - if any - of those you really meant and which you included because you thought they'd sound good?

[Free]

Tad, for some reason I can't get logged in to Kitestrings to join a dialog on the two Jims.
For the record, (as you already know) Jim Gaar, is a big talking fraud.

But what you might not know is that Jim Gaar, even now, is barely a H3 and never has flown a Dragonfly. He likes to give the impression that he has .. but it's a big fat lie.

Jim Gaar has very little experience in towing of any kind and it's really pathetic to see him posture and pretend to others that he is such an old timer. When Jim Gaar mentions hundreds and hundreds of tows and years and years of experience, he is actually talking about other pilots, as a group, that has those credentials..

In 2001 Jim Gaar was a new H2 when 2 other pilots and myself, plus Gaar's father went in together on a cheap Dragonfly to form a flying club that is now long-gone defunct.

Jim Gaar, was instrumental in the failure of this group and the resultant "flight park" as the 'Blindrodie' was named temporary manager of the flight park in the paperwork his lawyer father wrote up for the group.

The temporarily named 'place holder Gaar', became defacto permanent manager over time because neither of the other partners had the backbone to properly elect an officer as the partnership bylaws prescribed.

At that time, Gaar, had about 2 hrs. claimed in his log book and was handed the reigns to the "flightpark".
Ignorance is one thing and it really isn't a crime, until it's coupled with arrogance..

Add in the Gaar predisposition to falsely prop oneself up as some kind of an authority, plus a tendency for larceny and it looks like Jim Gaar might have missed his calling in politics!

Jim Gaar's postings on the Jack and Straub show prove that laws of lowest common denominator prevail..
I hate to think that some young pilot might confuse him for someone with a clue.

It's buyer beware around Jim Gaar, kids.
Don't let him blow smoke up your butt and keep your eyes on your valuables.
Seriously.

[TadEareckson]

Oh wow. I haven't had that much fun reading a post in a very long time.

...I can't get logged in to Kitestrings to join a dialog on the two Jims.

Zack or I should be able to help with that. We can get in and see the email addresses and reset passwords.

For the record, (as you already know) Jim Gaar, is a big talking fraud.

As are most of the people who control aerotowing in this country.

But what you might not know...

Yeah, I TOTALLY assumed - from what I've read of his and the fact that he runs the occasionally active TUGS group (from which, to date, he's stupidly neglected to kick me off) - that he was a Dragonfly driver and an advanced Hang Four sorta glider jockey. Hard to believe that anybody that stupid ISN'T a Dragonfly driver and an advanced Hang Four sorta glider jockey.

I really don't give a rat's a** whether or not someone engaged in a discussion has ten thousand or zero hours in something - it means nothing either way. Flying and towing is damn near all ten year old kid common sense stuff and either you got it or you don't.

I do, however, give a HUGE rat's a** when somebody paints himself as something he's not. Right now I can't recall if he's actually lied about his background but I'm definitely gonna be rereading stuff to find out why I had the impression you so accurately described.

He DOES seem to have made at least ONE slip-up, though. I recently found a post (I'll try to document it later) in which he referred to me as a "bully". And I was wondering how someone with no access to any weaponry buttons at any of his hangouts and as ostracized, widely hated, and powerless as Yours Truly is could be thought of that way. Makes a LOT more sense now.

Ignorance is one thing and it really isn't a crime, until it's coupled with arrogance.

Even all by itself it can be and - in Dragonfly towing - virtually always is. I defy anyone to point me to a single Dragonfly tow that wasn't conducted in violation of easily complied with USHGA/FAA safety regulations. Ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity account for most of the factors here.

Add in the Gaar predisposition to falsely prop oneself up as some kind of an authority, plus a tendency for larceny and it looks like Jim Gaar might have missed his calling in politics!

Nah, he was pretty much perfect for aerotowing. Ridgely lost an employee (along with a Dragonfly) earlier this year. Maybe there's a job opening.

Jim Gaar's postings on the Jack and Straub show prove that laws of lowest common denominator prevail.

On the Jack and Davis Shows it's pretty tough to identify lowest common denominators.

I hate to think that some young pilot might confuse him for someone with a clue.

Name someone in the aerotowing cult with whom some young pilot might be better off.

It's buyer beware around Jim Gaar, kids.
Don't let him blow smoke up your butt and keep your eyes on your valuables.
Seriously.

Welcome to hang gliding.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hi Tad,

I'm trying to get myself out the door for a day of flying, so I don't have much time to respond. But I will address the key point where we seem to differ.

You seem to think that excluding people you don't like (or you find incompetent, stupid, etc) is a good approach.

I disagree. I think it's far better to have everyone communicating. That's the only way resolve disagreements.

Now I know you say you'd challenge any of those guys to an argument, but your words have exactly the opposite effect. The way you "shred" people drives them away. If you drive enough of them away, then you're just talking to yourself and to your own little "cult".

I know you will say that's fine. But you know it's not fine. You know that there are lots of good decent pilots who will never hear of "KiteStrings" or "US Hawks". Instead, they'll get told/sold whatever's being posted on hanggliding.org and the Oz Report. You know that's NOT what you want, but your own hatred toward certain people causes that to happen.

You say you can add 2 plus 2 and get 4, but you can't seem to figure out that your own hatred is undermining your effectiveness.

Finally, I certainly stand by the US Hawks mission and principles statements outlined in the FAQ. I don't think I've deviated from them. Can you tell me what your mission statement and principles are? Maybe that's where we have a fundamental disconnect.

Thanks,
Bob Kuczewski

[TadEareckson]

Warren,

Oops, gotta retract my statement about Jim Gaar referring to me as a bully. Faulty recollection. It was from Jason Dyer - another Davis and Jack Show asshole - who, along with Gaar, was part of the Oz attack mob going after me a couple of springs ago. Sorry, but sometimes one has difficulty keeping track of which stupid clone is which in this sport.

Bob,

You seem to think that excluding people you don't like (or you find incompetent, stupid, etc) is a good approach.

1. I don't in any way advocate exclusion of people whom I don't like. It's quite possible for me to majorly despise someone for a very long list of very good reasons - including monumental stupidity - but say, "But he's doing a totally competent job of truck towing. So go ahead - fly with the guy and do what he says." Monumental stupidity - in and of itself - never has been and never will be much of a barrier to participation in hang gliding - or much else in the way of aviation at the pilot or instructor level.

2. Incompetence, however, is an entirely different issue. And if I find someone incompetent it's 'cause he IS incompetent. Incompetence is not a subjective issue 'cause it's all based on two plus two equals four no matter what planet - with an atmosphere - you're from. In REAL aviation they have lotsa internationally consistent classes with lotsa long winded "explanations" and testing to eliminate - as best as possible - incompetence from the cockpit.

3. Hang gliding ain't like that however 'cause the people controlling it can't come to a consensus on whether two plus two equals three or five so they tend to leave that up to the opinions of the individual schools, operations, instructors, observers, and pilots. I've got some issues with that.

I disagree. I think it's far better to have everyone communicating.

And you think - ideally - I don't?

Problems are...

1. Ignore, edit, delete, lock, and ban buttons make it hard to have everyone communicating.

That's the only way resolve disagreements.

2. And when people walk out of conversations the communications stop and disagreements don't get resolved.

3. And when the culture at large tolerates and respects people who maintain that two plus two equals three, or depending on the whim and convenience of the moment, five, and ignore every conceivable explanation, illustration, and shred of evidence that that's not the case - which is EXACTLY what's going on, again, on The Davis Show - you are out of your freaking mind if you think those communications in that kind of environment are gonna result in any kind of desirable resolution.

You do not let the goddam Jehovah's Witnesses and Holocaust deniers have says about what goes into the biology and history textbooks 'cause they ALWAYS STOP COMMUNICATING the instant you hit them with irrefutable evidence which conflicts with their idiot beliefs and opinions. So you raise bars to make sure that they don't get into those conversations and positions of authority and control.

Now I know you say you'd challenge any of those guys to an argument, but your words have exactly the opposite effect.

GOOD.

The way you "shred" people drives them away.

You name somebody in hang gliding who's been shredded one percent as forcefully and viciously shredded as I have. You don't see me putting my tail between my legs and slinking away.

If you drive enough of them away, then you're just talking to yourself and to your own little "cult".

My own little cult is based on physics, virtually nothing in it is of my own origin - it's just a compilation of what all the best minds in the sport have figured out before me, and if I get run over by a truck this afternoon the principles will survive just fine without me 'cause none of them are opinion or belief based. It just might slow things up a bit 'cause it'll probably be tough to find someone as nasty and unconcerned with social acceptability as I am to spearhead the push.

I know you will say that's fine.

Got that right - see above. Darwin thing.

But you know it's not fine.

It's currently fine enough to make me a bit optimistic. The line on the graph is moving very slowly to the upper right.

And I've got Davis revealing his fear of and advertising for me by his personal attacks and locking down threads in which I'm part of the conversation.

And, by the way... I don't think I've heard your name mentioned on The Davis Show in quite a while.

You know that there are lots of good decent pilots who will never hear of "KiteStrings" or "US Hawks".

I used to think so. I now firmly believe that hang gliding is a major dickhead magnet and the percentage of good decent pilots and people in it is microscopic. I've probably got all of the ones who exist on Kite Strings already. But we've just seen just how much damage to a**holes like Davis, Jim, and their cults can be done by just two or three of them.

Instead, they'll get told/sold whatever's being posted on hanggliding.org and the Oz Report.

And when they break their downtubes, arms, and freakin' necks there will be some great YouTube videos I can add to my collection. And I'll keep gaining credibility - just the way I have been, slowly, for many years.

You know that's NOT what you want, but your own hatred toward certain people causes that to happen.

Yeah, it's a real bitch, ain't it? "Oh, if only I had been more civil to Marc Fink I coulda gotten through to him before he did a 250 foot post-Greenspot lockout stall - from 225 feet. Well, at least he died doing what he loved." Keeps me from sleeping soundly most nights.

You say you can add 2 plus 2 and get 4, but you can't seem to figure out that your own hatred is undermining your effectiveness.

That's a subjective call and I'm not seeing the evidence to support it. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one out there who hates a**holes like Jack, Davis, and Rooney - and the more and deeper the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.

Finally, I certainly stand by the US Hawks mission and principles statements outlined in the FAQ.

Good. Glad to hear it.

I don't think I've deviated from them.

Thought you were getting a bit soft on this one:

What will keep the US Hawks from becoming another USHPA or HGAA?

You will ... hopefully. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Everyone has to do their part once in a while. If you see something that's not being done correctly, then it's your duty to speak out. One big difference between the US Hawks and other organizations is that the US Hawks really does honor the free speech of its members.

when you applauded Sam's states' rights decision to cut my microphone.

Can you tell me what your mission statement and principles are?

Read the first couple of posts on:

http://kitestrings.prophpbb.com/topic2.html

Welcome / About This Forum

Maybe that's where we have a fundamental disconnect.

Maybe our fundamental disconnect is that my scumbag tolerance level is a lot lower than yours. Chalk that up to our relative histories with towing and my understanding of just how much damage some sh*thead in control of your thrust at takeoff can do to you.