[JoeF]

I will be coding other instatiations of the BEF014A soon. SS. DS sock. Sweep. Dihedral and sweep. Chord 4 ft, 5ft, 6ft, and some instatiations of taper side wings. Aft auxiliary sail surface. High Hat. Safe-Splat. Stuffers. Camber-forming device options. Control options. Coding challenges ahead!

Moderator's Note: Some of this post has been accidentally lost.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks Joe. You are always a good sport about trying new things.  

You mentioned picking the position of origin, and that is important. It's especially important in this case because the program provides no means to re-center an object on the screen. So if you were to pick the glider's nose as the origin, then only the nose could ever be centered and half the screen would remain empty in many views (side views and top views). For this reason, it's good to pick a center that's near the geometrical center of the object so you can make the object large and still have it all remain on the screen. For a typical hang glider, the apex of the control frame makes a very good origin. It's easily identified and pretty close to the various natural "centers" of the Glider.

Please note that a "real" graphics program would have easy ways to center an object regardless of its origin. It would also have easy ways to change the origin to the various common centers of objects. My program is very inadequate for the more general task, but it does give everyone a relatively easy way to make and view simple 3D objects. That's all it was intended to do. If you find yourself being drawn into the 3D graphics world, I can't recommend anything higher than Blender. It's a world class tool ... and it's free!

I will be coding other instatiations of the BEF014A soon. SS. DS sock. Sweep. Dihedral and sweep. Chord 4 ft, 5ft, 6ft, and some instatiations of taper side wings. Aft auxiliary sail surface. High Hat. Safe-Splat. Stuffers. Camber-forming device options. Control options. Coding challenges ahead!

I am always impressed by your enthusiasm regarding intellectual challenges. But please remember that the current program is very crude and can quickly become very tedious. As an example, most computer screens are well over 1000 pixels by 1000 pixels. That means that even the most moderate display has at least a million pixels. You could, in theory, draw any possible picture with a tool that only lets you set one pixel at a time. In fact, that's the most general tool that there is. But very rarely would you want to do that!

The same is true with my little 3D program. It will let you make anything you want from 3D line segments. But that can be a very difficult way to make anything even moderately complex. So my program is a good way to get started, but it won't likely be the last stop on your journey.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Dihedral and sweep. ... Coding challenges ahead!

As a suggestion, you might want to start by building as close a model as you can get with the standard Glider Designer tool. It operates at a much higher level and you'll get a pretty nice wing. Then you can export the model in "raw" format (when I post that new version) which is the format you've been working in with the current tool (Frame Designer). That's where you can add things like the bow sprit and move the crossbar to the trailing edge. Here's a version that I just modified to be close to your design but with some dihedral and sweep. I also moved the center to the crossbar to the trailing edge in preparation for making your aft (trailing edge) spar:

Code: Select all

{
  'Version': 1.1,
  'KeelFrontPoint': [0,5,0],
  'KeelRearPoint': [0,-5,0],
  'WingTipPoint': [15,-1,1.5],
  'TrailingEdgePercentKeel': 60,
  'RearWirePercentKeel': 65,
  'ControlBar': {
    'Height': 3.5,
    'Width': 3.2,
    'ApexPercentKeel': 40,
    'RakeDistance': 1.0,
    },
  'CrossBar': {
    'PercentKeel': 60,
    'PercentLeadingEdge': 68,
    'HeightAboveKeel': 0.1,
    },
  'KingPost': {
    'PercentKeel': 40,
    'Height': 3,
    'RakeDistance': 0.1,
    },
  'Battens': {
    'BattenDefData': [
      0.0,20.0,50.0,165.0,125.0,20.0,275.0,150.0,685.0,160.0,100.0,20.0,225.0,305.0,240.0,295.0,260.0,300.0,350.0,315.0
    ],
    'NumPerSide': 2,
    'BattenList': [
      {
        'PercentLeadingEdge': 0,
        'Segments': 20,
        'LeadingEdge': [67.5,145.1666717529297],
        'LeadingEdgeControl': [155.5,40.16667175292969],
        'TrailingEdgeControl': [275.0,150.0],
        'TrailingEdge': [685.0,160.0]
      },
      {
        'PercentLeadingEdge': 100,
        'Segments': 20,
        'LeadingEdge': [67.5,145.1666717529297],
        'LeadingEdgeControl': [172.5,76.16667175292969],
        'TrailingEdgeControl': [274.5,149.1666717529297],
        'TrailingEdge': [684.5,160.1666717529297]
      }
    ]
  }
}


If you view that in Glider Designer (the older program) you'll see something that's pretty close except for the misplaced cross bar, lack of a bow sprit, and missing cable stays. I added all but the cable stays in Frame Designer (the newer program). as shown here:

Screenshot at 2022-10-18 22-57-41.png (80.63 KiB) Viewed 844 times

Here's the Frame Designer version with the relocated crossbar (now aft spar) and the extended keel (bowsprit):

Code: Select all

[
[0,9,0, 0,-7,0, 7, "ff8888"], // Keel

[15,-1,1.5, 0,5,0, 5, "88ff88"], // Right Leading Edge
[0,5,0, -15,-1,1.5, 5, "88ff88"], // Left Leading Edge

[0,-1,0.1, 15.0, -7 , 1.35, 5, "00ffff"],
[0,-1,0.1, -15.0, -7 , 1.35, 5, "00ffff"],

[0,1,0, -1.6,2,-3.5, 2, "ddddee"],
[0,1,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 2, "ddddee"],
[-1.6,2,-3.5, 1.6,2,-3.5, 2, "ddddee"],
[0,1,0, 0,0.9,3, 2, "ddddee"],
[10.2,0.9199999999999999,1.02, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
[-10.2,0.9199999999999999,1.02, -1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
[0,5,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
[0,5,0, -1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
[0,-1.5,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
[0,-1.5,0, -1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
[0,0.9,3, 0,5,0, 1, "444444"],
[0,0.9,3, 0,-1.5,0, 1, "444444"],
[10.2,0.9199999999999999,1.02, 0,0.9,3, 1, "444444"],
[-10.2,0.9199999999999999,1.02, 0,0.9,3, 1, "444444"],
[0,5,0, 0,4.717584334154734,0.2558612859748246, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,4.717584334154734,0.2558612859748246, 0,4.41585322380292,0.3899661218824775, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,4.41585322380292,0.3899661218824775, 0,4.114112283771636,0.435506930511688, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,4.114112283771636,0.435506930511688, 0,3.8124162000745523,0.4308382736436033, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,3.8124162000745523,0.4308382736436033, 0,3.510779271242379,0.3988253784350584, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,3.510779271242379,0.3988253784350584, 0,3.2092000834189967,0.3526839543079681, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,3.2092000834189967,0.3526839543079681, 0,2.907672382130083,0.3000951049028908, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,2.907672382130083,0.3000951049028908, 0,2.6061891504961334,0.24559206870739933, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,2.6061891504961334,0.24559206870739933, 0,2.304743959843422,0.1918871236756693, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,2.304743959843422,0.1918871236756693, 0,2.003331306684579,0.1406134406839037, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,2.003331306684579,0.1406134406839037, 0,1.7116682897428643,0.09423318243142488, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,1.7116682897428643,0.09423318243142488, 0,1.4103069955506737,0.050215281242408046, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,1.4103069955506737,0.050215281242408046, 0,1.108966786672418,0.010486238089625005, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,1.108966786672418,0.010486238089625005, 0,0.8076450310211305,-0.024798528205739037, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,0.8076450310211305,-0.024798528205739037, 0,0.5063395292603907,-0.05559071111776101, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,0.5063395292603907,-0.05559071111776101, 0,0.20504843183984534,-0.08191107889128131, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,0.20504843183984534,-0.08191107889128131, 0,-0.09622982704016447,-0.10382465252920979, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,-0.09622982704016447,-0.10382465252920979, 0,-0.39749658177096947,-0.12142429877546287, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,-0.39749658177096947,-0.12142429877546287, 0,-0.6987529768611527,-0.1348197787741793, 2, "55aadd"],
[0,-0.6987529768611527,-0.1348197787741793, 0,-1,-0.144130390204596, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-1,1.5, -15,-1.2914574392909932,1.6549464270698535, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-1.2914574392909932,1.6549464270698535, -15,-1.5928610783549606,1.745032602982633, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-1.5928610783549606,1.745032602982633, -15,-1.8944063461774798,1.7810163775652632, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-1.8944063461774798,1.7810163775652632, -15,-2.19600513838678,1.781503739194967, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-2.19600513838678,1.781503739194967, -15,-2.497603196383248,1.7609262638061358, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-2.497603196383248,1.7609262638061358, -15,-2.7894472428167596,1.730022353847716, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-2.7894472428167596,1.730022353847716, -15,-3.090984398010737,1.6925775922347783, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-3.090984398010737,1.6925775922347783, -15,-3.3924845454431307,1.6531453894943702, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-3.3924845454431307,1.6531453894943702, -15,-3.693949676951291,1.6139264262668345, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-3.693949676951291,1.6139264262668345, -15,-3.9953830123754113,1.5762296811521939, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-3.9953830123754113,1.5762296811521939, -15,-4.296787996659813,1.5408214669724274, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-4.296787996659813,1.5408214669724274, -15,-4.598167884534929,1.5081349077179624, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-4.598167884534929,1.5081349077179624, -15,-4.899525594007917,1.4783966276940141, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-4.899525594007917,1.4783966276940141, -15,-5.2008636784148985,1.4517043930232216, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-5.2008636784148985,1.4517043930232216, -15,-5.502184347468942,1.4280753976009573, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-5.502184347468942,1.4280753976009573, -15,-5.793770209046768,1.4080944830309126, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-5.793770209046768,1.4080944830309126, -15,-6.095061921223693,1.3903680171513166, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-6.095061921223693,1.3903680171513166, -15,-6.396341136807699,1.3755293455963153, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-6.396341136807699,1.3755293455963153, -15,-6.697609087348449,1.363486938668651, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-6.697609087348449,1.363486938668651, -15,-6.998866842744699,1.3541444073033084, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-1,1.5, 15,-1.2914574392909932,1.6549464270698535, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-1.2914574392909932,1.6549464270698535, 15,-1.5928610783549606,1.745032602982633, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-1.5928610783549606,1.745032602982633, 15,-1.8944063461774798,1.7810163775652632, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-1.8944063461774798,1.7810163775652632, 15,-2.19600513838678,1.781503739194967, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-2.19600513838678,1.781503739194967, 15,-2.497603196383248,1.7609262638061358, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-2.497603196383248,1.7609262638061358, 15,-2.7894472428167596,1.730022353847716, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-2.7894472428167596,1.730022353847716, 15,-3.090984398010737,1.6925775922347783, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-3.090984398010737,1.6925775922347783, 15,-3.3924845454431307,1.6531453894943702, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-3.3924845454431307,1.6531453894943702, 15,-3.693949676951291,1.6139264262668345, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-3.693949676951291,1.6139264262668345, 15,-3.9953830123754113,1.5762296811521939, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-3.9953830123754113,1.5762296811521939, 15,-4.296787996659813,1.5408214669724274, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-4.296787996659813,1.5408214669724274, 15,-4.598167884534929,1.5081349077179624, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-4.598167884534929,1.5081349077179624, 15,-4.899525594007917,1.4783966276940141, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-4.899525594007917,1.4783966276940141, 15,-5.2008636784148985,1.4517043930232216, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-5.2008636784148985,1.4517043930232216, 15,-5.502184347468942,1.4280753976009573, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-5.502184347468942,1.4280753976009573, 15,-5.793770209046768,1.4080944830309126, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-5.793770209046768,1.4080944830309126, 15,-6.095061921223693,1.3903680171513166, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-6.095061921223693,1.3903680171513166, 15,-6.396341136807699,1.3755293455963153, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-6.396341136807699,1.3755293455963153, 15,-6.697609087348449,1.363486938668651, 2, "55aadd"],
[15,-6.697609087348449,1.363486938668651, 15,-6.998866842744699,1.3541444073033084, 2, "55aadd"],
[-15,-1,1.5, 0,5,0, 1, "000077"],
[0,5,0, 15,-1,1.5, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-1.2914574392909932,1.6549464270698535, 0,4.717584334154734,0.2558612859748246, 1, "000077"],
[0,4.717584334154734,0.2558612859748246, 15,-1.2914574392909932,1.6549464270698535, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-1.5928610783549606,1.745032602982633, 0,4.41585322380292,0.3899661218824775, 1, "000077"],
[0,4.41585322380292,0.3899661218824775, 15,-1.5928610783549606,1.745032602982633, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-1.8944063461774798,1.7810163775652632, 0,4.114112283771636,0.435506930511688, 1, "000077"],
[0,4.114112283771636,0.435506930511688, 15,-1.8944063461774798,1.7810163775652632, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-2.19600513838678,1.781503739194967, 0,3.8124162000745523,0.4308382736436033, 1, "000077"],
[0,3.8124162000745523,0.4308382736436033, 15,-2.19600513838678,1.781503739194967, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-2.497603196383248,1.7609262638061358, 0,3.510779271242379,0.3988253784350584, 1, "000077"],
[0,3.510779271242379,0.3988253784350584, 15,-2.497603196383248,1.7609262638061358, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-2.7894472428167596,1.730022353847716, 0,3.2092000834189967,0.3526839543079681, 1, "000077"],
[0,3.2092000834189967,0.3526839543079681, 15,-2.7894472428167596,1.730022353847716, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-3.090984398010737,1.6925775922347783, 0,2.907672382130083,0.3000951049028908, 1, "000077"],
[0,2.907672382130083,0.3000951049028908, 15,-3.090984398010737,1.6925775922347783, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-3.3924845454431307,1.6531453894943702, 0,2.6061891504961334,0.24559206870739933, 1, "000077"],
[0,2.6061891504961334,0.24559206870739933, 15,-3.3924845454431307,1.6531453894943702, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-3.693949676951291,1.6139264262668345, 0,2.304743959843422,0.1918871236756693, 1, "000077"],
[0,2.304743959843422,0.1918871236756693, 15,-3.693949676951291,1.6139264262668345, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-3.9953830123754113,1.5762296811521939, 0,2.003331306684579,0.1406134406839037, 1, "000077"],
[0,2.003331306684579,0.1406134406839037, 15,-3.9953830123754113,1.5762296811521939, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-4.296787996659813,1.5408214669724274, 0,1.7116682897428643,0.09423318243142488, 1, "000077"],
[0,1.7116682897428643,0.09423318243142488, 15,-4.296787996659813,1.5408214669724274, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-4.598167884534929,1.5081349077179624, 0,1.4103069955506737,0.050215281242408046, 1, "000077"],
[0,1.4103069955506737,0.050215281242408046, 15,-4.598167884534929,1.5081349077179624, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-4.899525594007917,1.4783966276940141, 0,1.108966786672418,0.010486238089625005, 1, "000077"],
[0,1.108966786672418,0.010486238089625005, 15,-4.899525594007917,1.4783966276940141, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-5.2008636784148985,1.4517043930232216, 0,0.8076450310211305,-0.024798528205739037, 1, "000077"],
[0,0.8076450310211305,-0.024798528205739037, 15,-5.2008636784148985,1.4517043930232216, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-5.502184347468942,1.4280753976009573, 0,0.5063395292603907,-0.05559071111776101, 1, "000077"],
[0,0.5063395292603907,-0.05559071111776101, 15,-5.502184347468942,1.4280753976009573, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-5.793770209046768,1.4080944830309126, 0,0.20504843183984534,-0.08191107889128131, 1, "000077"],
[0,0.20504843183984534,-0.08191107889128131, 15,-5.793770209046768,1.4080944830309126, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-6.095061921223693,1.3903680171513166, 0,-0.09622982704016447,-0.10382465252920979, 1, "000077"],
[0,-0.09622982704016447,-0.10382465252920979, 15,-6.095061921223693,1.3903680171513166, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-6.396341136807699,1.3755293455963153, 0,-0.39749658177096947,-0.12142429877546287, 1, "000077"],
[0,-0.39749658177096947,-0.12142429877546287, 15,-6.396341136807699,1.3755293455963153, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-6.697609087348449,1.363486938668651, 0,-0.6987529768611527,-0.1348197787741793, 1, "000077"],
[0,-0.6987529768611527,-0.1348197787741793, 15,-6.697609087348449,1.363486938668651, 1, "000077"],
[-15,-6.998866842744699,1.3541444073033084, 0,-1,-0.144130390204596, 1, "000077"],
[0,-1,-0.144130390204596, 15,-6.998866842744699,1.3541444073033084, 1, "000077"],
]


By the way, you mentioned taper, and that might be especially good for this design because tapering to a point will bring the two spars together at their tips forming a triangle with the keel. That might really help reduce the load on the bow sprit.

[JoeF]

By the way, you mentioned taper, and that might be especially good for this design because tapering to a point will bring the two spars together at their tips forming a triangle with the keel. That might really help reduce the load on the bow sprit.

That brings us to the triangle that is in BEF001 where there is no load on a bow sprit because of the triangle on each side wing; with such, the bowsprit is disappeared.


That instantiation you just made is very pleasant to view in the viewer! Thanks.

But Bob, your note encouraged making BEF015 that distinguishes from BEF001 because BEF001 seems to tell of the loose TE sail. BEF015 distinctly has a firm spar at or near the TE; small extensions aft of the aft spar seem optional and sometimes very interesting. But the BEF015 triangle of spars-keel takes away bow sprit and the attending lines. In BEF015 instantiations there are many opportunities for experiments with sail appliques and stuffers in DS socking. One instantiation of 10 ft of sail at keel with two equal telescoping spars of 15 ft length for each side wing would give a sail area of about 141 sq. ft. Quick area calculator using three sides of triangle: HERE.

BEF015.jpg (62.99 KiB) Viewed 840 times

[JoeF]

Series of bow frameworks is in the works for bow-related frameworks for HG design experimentation. Tense a spar into a bowed spar using a bowing line; such makes for a planar segment that is a circular segment. Depending on the actual materials used in the bowed spar, a non-circular bow may result; e.g. a tapered spar bows to non-circular form. There are distinct types, considering only some types at first.

Type 1: Already in two BEFs posted: BEF007ab and BEF010ab These bow full hoops, the hoop closes in on itself.

Type 2: One spanwise bow wing, yet to be given a BEF. Some developers have explored HGs of this sort. As yet, I am guessing "dirty" rigging has not been explored enough; those who have depended on cantilever efforts have their targets. But a "dirty rigging" exploration may allow some benefits for the low performance players. Non-Kp-Qp Longbow can be studied here. But there are many alternative instantiations of "Type 2" that may be studied.

Type 3: LE spar of full span and TE spar of full span together bowed with a common bowing line. This is different from full ellipse, full oval, full circle. So, a BEF will be composed to express a family of HGs using two spanwise bowed spars. Canti-levered instantiations tend to be heavier than line rigged using Kp-Qp to reach for lower mass for more pleasant tote in tiny packs meeting the targets mentioned in the present topic.

Type 4: Marrying two bows per side for a total of four bows in robust King-Queen rigging may not have been explored. An aim is to get sail area increase over that which is obtained in BEF015 instantiations; and perhaps some assets stemming from "captive arch" physics. Note: the two bows needed not be joined at both ends; that is, the bows may end at keel at distinct points, say 7 ft apart. A BEF for this is in the works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_segment


====================
====================
Bringing into the topic: http://energykitesystems.net/7C/index.html
7C
and
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_P%C3%A9naud
====================c

[JoeF]

BEF016 and BEF016r

BEF016 and BEF016r

BEF016.jpg (45.78 KiB) Viewed 823 times

The indicated keel frame piece may be longer or shorter to cause the sail to be convex or concave at the TE at the keel.
The "r" experimental space regards having battens or ribs or shaped battens.
Else, without the "r" there are not rib or rib-like battens, but only stuffers and appliques to form airfoils and optional control actions.

Some options in the BEF016 experimental space are indicated.

BEF016options.jpg (27.7 KiB) Viewed 822 times

Archery? https://www.combataustralia.com.au/history-of-archery/how-did-archery-get-its-name/

Bow and arrows?

BowAndArrow.jpg (6.52 KiB) Viewed 820 times

https://archaeology.uiowa.edu/american- ... chnology-0 On the stress drawing there is a vectoring arrow that is opposite from what it should be.

[JoeF]

BEF017
Is this the "football" BEF (basic experimental frame)?
Circular segment calculator Remember to double the answers for area, as two approximately circular segments are in the hang glider. "Approximately" because the design of the spars to be bowed may well get the forms in box different from "circle" related.

Span and spar length here are not the same; the arc length involved form the spar lengths. The bow line would be the span of the wing.
Two socks could be involved for a DS deal. But some experiments will have DS for say 30% on average, or 40% on average beginning at the leading edge.

Experiments with full SS still may have appliques for airfoil formation including camber and reflex effects. Formed battens and flat battens are optional to form various experiments.

Use of drop lines from rigging lines may be explored for airfoil formation in SS or DS$ deals.

Notice how BEF017 differs from BEF015.

BEF017.jpg (47.98 KiB) Viewed 798 times

[JoeF]

BEF018

We continue to aim for tiny packing for tote as per topic of this discussion thread.

Anyone in the world is free to spawn HG instantiations of BEF018; consider reporting experiences in the US Hawks forum.

BEF018.jpg (57.43 KiB) Viewed 793 times

Type 4: Marrying two bows per side for a total of four bows in robust King-Queen rigging may not have been explored. An aim is to get sail area increase over that which is obtained in BEF015 instantiations; and perhaps some assets stemming from "captive arch" physics. Note: the two bows need not be joined at both ends; that is, the bows may end at keel at distinct points, say 7 ft apart. A BEF for this is in the works. [in quote "needed" was edited to "need" with approval of the author]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_segment

Circular segment calculator

[Bob Kuczewski]

Here you go Joe:

BEF017a.png (20.67 KiB) Viewed 781 times

View it in 3D with this code:

Code: Select all

[
  [0,5,0, 0,-4.8,0, 7, "ff8888"], // Keel
  [0,-0.0,0.1,   8.3,-0.0,0.1, 5, "00ffff"], // Right Crossbar
  [0,1,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 2, "ddddee"],  // Right downtube
  [-1.6,2,-3.5, 1.6,2,-3.5, 2, "ddddee"],  // Base tube
  [0,1,0, 0,0.9,3, 2, "ddddee"],  // Kingpost
  [8.4,0.0,0.02, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],  // Right Side Wire
  [8.4,0.0,0.02, 0,0.9,3, 1, "444444"], // Right Kingpost wire
  [0,5,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
  [0,5,0, -1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
  [0,-1.5,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
  [0,-1.5,0, -1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
  [0,0.9,3, 0,5,0, 1, "444444"],
  [0,0.9,3, 0,-1.5,0, 1, "444444"],

  [0,5,0, 0,4.717584334154734,0.2558612859748246, 2, "55aadd"],

  [       0.0, -4.479210, 0.0,    -1.950903, -4.287062, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -1.950903, -4.287062, 0.0,    -3.826835, -3.718005, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -3.826835, -3.718005, 0.0,    -5.555702, -2.793906, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -5.555702, -2.793906, 0.0,    -7.071068, -1.550277, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -7.071068, -1.550277, 0.0,    -8.314696, -0.034912, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -8.314696, -0.034912, 0.0,    -8.314696,  0.087000, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -8.314696,  0.087000, 0.0,    -7.071068,  1.602366, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -7.071068,  1.602366, 0.0,    -5.555702,  2.845995, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -5.555702,  2.845995, 0.0,    -3.826833,  3.770094, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -3.826833,  3.770094, 0.0,    -1.950901,  4.339151, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -1.950901,  4.339151, 0.0,     0.000003,  4.531298, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  0.000003,  4.531298, 0.0,     1.950907,  4.339150, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  1.950907,  4.339150, 0.0,     3.826839,  3.770092, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  3.826839,  3.770092, 0.0,     5.555707,  2.845991, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  5.555707,  2.845991, 0.0,     7.071073,  1.602362, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  7.071073,  1.602362, 0.0,     8.314700,  0.086995, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  8.314700,  0.086995, 0.0,     8.314690, -0.034922, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  8.314690, -0.034922, 0.0,     7.071059, -1.550286, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  7.071059, -1.550286, 0.0,     5.555691, -2.793913, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  5.555691, -2.793913, 0.0,     3.826821, -3.718011, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  3.826821, -3.718011, 0.0,     1.950888, -4.287066, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  1.950888, -4.287066, 0.0,     0.0,      -4.479210, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
]

[JoeF]

Fun!
Herein I tweaked one line of code to have no frame crossbar, but have a bow line that holds the stress of the two perimeter bowing spars. I just lowered the thickness number and renamed the line. I saved the coded line, but suppressed the crossbar line with "//" use. BEF017 was first intended for no-crossbar frame while emphasizing that the perimeter of the macro frame is a set of of two stressed bowed spars. The bowed spars would be Kp-Qp stayed with upper and lower stay lines.

Keel framed. No beam frame for crossbar, just bow line. BEF017 lives in shown. The green line is a tensed line that holds the stressed TE and LE spars.

BEF017nocrossparbowlineinstead.jpg (21.41 KiB) Viewed 770 times

BEF017nocrossparbowlineinsteadTopView.jpg (30.19 KiB) Viewed 770 times

So, Bob, maybe a new BEF symbol could be for a HG family that had bowed spar LE, bowed spar TE, and straight mid-spar (cross bar); let that be BEF019:

BEF019.jpg (92.41 KiB) Viewed 770 times

Code: Select all

[
  [0,5,0, 0,-4.8,0, 7, "ff8888"], // Keel version of BEF017
  [0,-0.0,0.1,   8.3,-0.0,0.1, 1, "00ffff"], //  Right bow line in tension from bowed spars to instantiate BEF017
  [0,1,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 2, "ddddee"],  // Right downtube
  [-1.6,2,-3.5, 1.6,2,-3.5, 2, "ddddee"],  // Base tube
  [0,1,0, 0,0.9,3, 2, "ddddee"],  // Kingpost
  [8.4,0.0,0.02, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],  // Right Side Wire
  [8.4,0.0,0.02, 0,0.9,3, 1, "444444"], // Right Kingpost wire
  [0,5,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
  [0,5,0, -1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
  [0,-1.5,0, 1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
  [0,-1.5,0, -1.6,2,-3.5, 1, "444444"],
  [0,0.9,3, 0,5,0, 1, "444444"],
  [0,0.9,3, 0,-1.5,0, 1, "444444"],

  [0,5,0, 0,4.717584334154734,0.2558612859748246, 2, "55aadd"],

  [       0.0, -4.479210, 0.0,    -1.950903, -4.287062, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -1.950903, -4.287062, 0.0,    -3.826835, -3.718005, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -3.826835, -3.718005, 0.0,    -5.555702, -2.793906, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -5.555702, -2.793906, 0.0,    -7.071068, -1.550277, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -7.071068, -1.550277, 0.0,    -8.314696, -0.034912, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -8.314696, -0.034912, 0.0,    -8.314696,  0.087000, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -8.314696,  0.087000, 0.0,    -7.071068,  1.602366, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -7.071068,  1.602366, 0.0,    -5.555702,  2.845995, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -5.555702,  2.845995, 0.0,    -3.826833,  3.770094, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -3.826833,  3.770094, 0.0,    -1.950901,  4.339151, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [ -1.950901,  4.339151, 0.0,     0.000003,  4.531298, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  0.000003,  4.531298, 0.0,     1.950907,  4.339150, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  1.950907,  4.339150, 0.0,     3.826839,  3.770092, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  3.826839,  3.770092, 0.0,     5.555707,  2.845991, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  5.555707,  2.845991, 0.0,     7.071073,  1.602362, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  7.071073,  1.602362, 0.0,     8.314700,  0.086995, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  8.314700,  0.086995, 0.0,     8.314690, -0.034922, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  8.314690, -0.034922, 0.0,     7.071059, -1.550286, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  7.071059, -1.550286, 0.0,     5.555691, -2.793913, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  5.555691, -2.793913, 0.0,     3.826821, -3.718011, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  3.826821, -3.718011, 0.0,     1.950888, -4.287066, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
  [  1.950888, -4.287066, 0.0,     0.0,      -4.479210, 0.0,   5,   "ff00ff" ],  //
]