[SamKellner]

In an effort to continue your discussion about insurance, thought I'd move this out of the hook-in, hook-in, hook-in, hook-in, topic.

Redundant Rants
Constructive Reply

Hi Bob & All,

While trying to fight back the flames of disgrundled members, Mark Forbes made this comment about the availibility of ins.
From FirstFlight but not thru USHPA.

The highest-profile sites (Torrey, Lookout, Jackson Hole, Wallaby, etc.) aren't even covered by our policy. They carry separate commercial insurance policies (also issued through First Flight) for activities there.

Read more: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.ph ... z1eIv9r74b

I'm not sure how this might apply to US Hawks. Since I applied each year, for site/event insurance, I have the First Flight contact info etc.
Once when I had specific questions about whether some associated activities were covered, the U* office referred me to First Flight. I called and talked to them.

Thanks for your leadership,
Sam

[Bill Cummings]

Sam,
Years back before I had a computer I wrote to the USHGA about what I wanted for my money (Dues). One of the boys from Elsinore gave me static in Letters to the Editor, for wanting insurance coverage while I was towing. He said something like, “What do you need toe insurance for? Hell you got ten of your own. Let’s talk about something important like drinking beer.”
A few years later they were begging for money for a landing zone since they were loosing the one they had to development. I didn’t send any money but I would have liked to have told them to not mention to the new land owner that they could provide site insurance and see how lucky they were getting permission to land.

I was told by the USHGA at that time that I was not covered while on tow but only after I was in free flight. Not because towing was excluded but only because it wasn’t included in the policy.

In all the time since I have not heard anything to the contrary.

It was my understanding at the time that even if we were include, to be covered, we had to be within the laws of city, township or county, state and federal or that would be their loop hole to let the insurance company off of the hook.

In Minnesota and Wisconsin you could not legally tow anything on a county road with a, “non ridged hitch.” I was cited in Wisconsin and had to pay a fine for static towing along with several other people.

If there has been a change in our insurance coverage since my letter to USHPA I am not aware of it. I could crash into a bystander while on tow and not have coverage.
So all you people in the know does this situation still exist?

I think I might still be able to find that letter from USHGA in my file cabinet.

One thing that would really frost me is paying premiums while not being covered just because I tow.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks for posting that topic. It was an interesting read.

I was particularly interested in Mark Webber's post regarding the collapse of the HGAA:

I feel it was one eager beaver that built his dam in the wrong spot and flooded out the effort.

I wonder who he's talking about? When Scott Wise was in charge, the HGAA was growing by leaps and bounds. We were getting new members all the time and the web site was a hotbed of discussions about building a new organization. It had gone from nothing to maybe 60 or 70 members in about a month. But the whole effort collapsed almost immediately when Jack Axaopoulos pulled his lockdown / coup to take control away from Scott.

So who was the "eager beaver" that Mark mentioned? Mark?

[SamKellner]

Bill,
Was Mark Forbes the ins chairman at that time. That's a U* tactic, to first have one of their insider supporters throw out an insult and strawman argument.
I sure do not feel like an "in the know" person. My experience is hard labor, residental construction and some production manufacturing( lumber to fiber optics), but no politics, management, negotiating, etc. IMO, Forbes is really a bad apple that has largly contributed to the ineffectiveness at U*.

I will gladly pass on the FreeFlight contact info. Organizing the fly-in here for 8 years really streatched my abilities, and wrecked my budget. It was fun and rewarding in many ways, but kinda fell in my lap because of the location between Zapata and BigSpring.

,
Sam