by Bill Cummings » Mon May 07, 2012 1:29 pm
Re: Honda Elite 250
“Sam---
I'm wondering if other scooter rigs have the brake set to a very minimal drag to help prevent free wheeling.”
Bill‘s reply---- My thoughts exactly. I was even wondering about a bolt with a pad on the end and then threaded against the rim as an adjustable drag but scrapped that idea since it would require a perfectly true and unbent or un-warped (is that a word?) rim.
The last time I scooter towed was with Ed Bennett at the Dry Canyon LZ better than five years back. That time and other times before that back lashing never reared it’s ugly head. He was not using a drogue chute but only did for winding the line up at the end of the day.
Actually it was a rectangular flying mini-chute. Ed would attach the flying chute and fly the line to the pulley where I was waiting to collect the pulley. When the end of the tow line would get to the pulley I would open up the pulley and hold the chute up and he would fly the line into the scooter rather than drag it on the ground.
Another idea that just popped in now would be to set the idle screw up to just barely engage the clutch. I can see some drawbacks to that idea too like clutch wear or having to shut down each time the need arose to totally stop the pulling.
I’m reluctant to say that back-lashing is simply a small annoyance. A time could present itself where total freewheeling without a freeze up due to a backlash would be desirable. In the event of a locked out pilot this could become more than a small annoyance. Someone with primary exposure to scooter towing, I’m sure, has the definitive answer to this question. (So concerning back lashes --- “Sorry, Survivors, I got nothing for ya, take your torches and head back to camp.”)
“Sam,---
We have a 5ft round, pull thru, chute. We're hoping that will work but haven't tried it yet. I read that other tow groups use a 5ft, but not sure if a bit smaller might work just as good.
Also, I'm wondering how far in front of the pilot should the chute be located.
And, what size line is good from the chute to the pilot. One scooter operator I saw around here had a 1/2" heavy rope. His theory was that it would weight the chute down upon glider release, so the glider would not fly into the chute. ????? However, even with weighted section, I saw a new Freedom hit the chute. Luckily it did not tangle.”
Bill’s reply,----
Hadley Robinson our clubs PG Tow Tech (and instructor) had me come down to the El Paso sod farm to show him how to tow up HG pilots with his stationary hydraulic winch. (or payout from the trailer)
Due to the sod farms circle irrigator system the big tires make too big of a unevenness for me to use my launch dolly there. I have to wait for some wind and run to launch.
Hadley’s winch has thin Dyneema Line on it and he uses a three foot drogue chute. I really don’t know if his size chute would be enough for 3/16” Poly Pro rope.
In all of my personal towing arrangements I have avoided drogue-line chutes.
When I tow on someone else’s system that includes a drogue chute I use at least 15 feet of heavy rope between my tow bridle and a “pull through chute.”
I also use heavy rope at my end (at the glider) when I’m step towing. It keeps the line from draping over a wing tip when turning back into the wind.
I’m thinking the Freedom glider hit the chute right near the ground at the start. Right?
The slickest chute containment arrangement that I ever saw was at the Cottonwood, AZ airport the day that Rod Houser was signing off Brad Lindsey’s tow operation. (20 yrs. Or more back.)
Brad had several tubular cloth containment bags on his tow truck that had a small carabineer on one end and on the other end an opening held shut with small Velcro patches. Each pilot would take a containment bag, clip it too their harness and when it was time for them to get on the platform of the truck they would stuff the drogue chute into the tubular sewn bag and close it with the Velcro. (I have never used this type of containment bag but was pleased to see how well thought out Brad’s chute containment system was.)
A length of weak link line pulled the chute out of the containment bag when the towline snapped away upon releasing. The weak-link line from the chute would be attached ahead of the heaver pilots weak-link on the towline.
The drogue chute weaklink line was strong enough to stay with the towline but would not be so strong as to NOT separate from the glider or pilot if it would ever somehow tangle.
With tow through drogue chutes I’ve seen pilots loose line tension, the drogue chute blossom, the pilot fly into the drogue chute, tangle with instruments, and start a TRUE lock out by towing from the control bar. (Now THAT’S a Aussie style lock-out, mate!)
“Sam,---
That's another question I have: using a drogue, what is the correct scooter operator action upon release?”
Bill’s reply,---
I prefer to radio the operator to reduce the pressure (not all of it) and then after I have rounded out and am not climbing I release. I Called Hadley just now and he said after the release he just lets the chute fall to the ground and the ATV person retrieves it. (This is pulley towing)
Pay out towing, he winds it in as fast as possible before the chute hit’s the ground.
Sorry I wasn’t much help with the back lash fix or even know if a fix is needed.
The line drogue chute use should, in my opinion, be used after much thought and consideration to “what if” scenarios.
The three foot drogue chute to my guessing would hit the ground pretty fast with 3/16" Poly.
Keep asking about the scooter operators action at release time. I can’t see any big deal there but someone may know better.
For
I sure want to avoid this situation.
Yes the chute is to keep the line off the ground.
