[ARP]

bobk,

If you or anyone else is interested in the pioneering era of flight before the Wright brothers I would be pleased to share what I have on the subject. I know of three people that are building or have built Lilienthal or Pilcher gliders. They are Eric Littledike here in the UK, Norman Bernie in Germany & Stephane Boisvert in Canada. I am sure there are others but I am not in contact with them.

Eric aranged for a memorial to Pilcher near to where I live. Details can be found here:- http://www.pilcher-monument.co.uk/

Tony

[ARP]

Stephane Boisvert's web site :- https://sites.google.com/site/stephaneboisverthome/

[ARP]

A film on Lilienthal glider constructor Norman Bernscheider ( NormanBernie ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnakOpt2 ... ure=relmfu

[Bob Kuczewski]

If you or anyone else is interested in the pioneering era of flight before the Wright brothers I would be pleased to share what I have on the subject.

There's been some recent email discussions over who invented the hang glider, and there may be an effort under way to produce an objective history of the sport. So anything you can share might be helpful in that effort, and you're welcome to participate directly as well. Just let me know.

Thanks,
Bob Kuczewski

[ARP]

Yes Bob,

But not just recently, it has been ongoing for a number of years. Most of the hang gliding associations around the world and the FAI have given awards to John Dickenson for the claims that have been made on his behalf. I simply asked that the efforts of Barry Hill Palmer also be considered as his work on hang gliders predated that of John Dickenson by more than two years. Of course neither gentlemen invented hang gliding as it was being practiced in the 1890's and has continued ever since.

I will certainly participate directly as the claims and awards given so far are untenable in my opinion. I did suggest that to get an objective history an aviation historian be brought in to assess the available information and produce a proper time line.

Tony

[Bob Kuczewski]

I will certainly participate directly as the claims and awards given so far are untenable in my opinion. I did suggest that to get an objective history an aviation historian be brought in to assess the available information and produce a proper time line.

The idea for an objective aviation historian sounds really great. But until we can enlist one, I think we can get started by trying to construct our own time line.

Would you mind starting a new topic here dedicated to collecting the raw information? Maybe give it a title something like "Hang Gliding History Time Line: Call for Information". Then, in the first post, you might describe what you want people to contribute in that topic. You might even suggest a particular formatting to help make the information easier to see. For example:

"Please use the font size options to categorize the importance of each entry. Use a size of "Huge" (200) for really important events, and use smaller sizes for less important events."

Then people can just contribute what they know and we can start sifting through it to build the timeline itself. We can invite Graeme and others to join in. How does that sound?

[ARP]

Bob,

To keep the objectivity it would be better for someone not already involved to set up the time line.

A time line has already been produced by Terry Aspinall on web sites, he produces, which are biased towards the Dickenson claims. On the other hand Joe faust has set up a time line that encompasses information he considers relevant.

One problem regarding what information is relevant is that no proper definition, of what is a hang glider, exists. The FAI definition has been ignored in it's own awarding of the hang glider diploma to the ski kite produced by John Dickenson in 1963. Their definition requires the demonstration of foot launch capabilty and the wing produced by Dickenson was not foot launched. It was not until 1969 when Moyes foot launch a hang glider based on Dickenson's design. The FAI refer to the "modern " hang glider without defining modern.

Until what constitutes a hang glider can clearly be defined it makes it difficult to know what should go on the time line. Much of the raw information has been listed by Joe which an historian could make reference to.

Tony

[Bob Kuczewski]

To keep the objectivity it would be better for someone not already involved to set up the time line.

OK. I don't think I'm involved, so I don't mind kicking it off ...

[ARP]

Bob,

A good starting point for your time line is the article by Dan Poynter which I have attached. It is a contemporary account and could do with some updating but it is one of the most accurate accounts around. It deals mainly with the scene in the USA but of course things were happening in Australia & Europe.

Tony

[ARP]

Stephan Nitsch had just finished his book on the history of hang gliding before he died. He did show me the draft format but of course it was in German which I cannot read. It was full of information and photos of hang gliders of what might be considered of the "modern" era. As far as I know it was not published but may have been since, by the Otto Lilienthal Museum in Anklam. I will try and find out if it was, as Stephan was very thorough in his work and it would be a comprehensive and informative document for any historian to study.

Tony